First, let me say that I understand Valg's opinion and position and the changes to ganging that have happened in the past year or so.

But when I posted that Ganging shouldn't be looked at as such a bad thing, and Valg replied that the Imm staff disagreed with me and that was the reasons behind such changes, I felt the need to clarify.

In the CF world, In a few hours I can come up with probably 100+ basic role ideas where ganging would not only be allowed, but the preferable way of doing business....and none of them would necessitate a "cowardly" type personality.

Did Darth Maul whine like a Little Bitch when Quigon and Obi wan fought him one on one? did Quigon and obi wan go through internal moral debates on the bravery of facing down this Sith 2 on 1? No. The Jedi knew the Sith had to die, so they did what they thought they needed to do to make sure that happened.

in the 400's in Wales... a patroll of 100 celtic warriors comes across a 15 man raiding party of irish sea-wolves along the coast....are they going to pause and think "It wouldn't be brave to swoop down on them and hack them to pieces all in one charge...we should only send 15 men down to fight them fairly"...no...they are going to swoop down and hack them to pieces.

If a Roman Legion in Gaul came across a 50 man illegal warband, would they think to themselves "Gee, let's only let a few of us fight, and let the strongest win, be it them or us"....no...for the good of the Empire they are going to strike with maximum force and vioence of action.


If the cops know of a Crack house in a neighborhood that has 15 armed crack-heads inside that is the den of all bad things happening in the neighborhood...do you think they are only going to send 15 cops? No...they are going to surround the crack house, and send in the swat team to completely overwhelm the opposition.

If 100 knights Templar came across 12 sleeping Arab muslims who had just raped, pillaged, and then burned down a small christian farming settlement, would they give those muslims a chance to fight even odds? No, they would swoop in and deliver their souls to God's judement...preferrably getting as many of them with their pants down and still sleeping as possible.

My point is, most non-psychopaths don't go to war or into a deadly confrontation without damned good reason. And there is *NO* reason to put that "reason" for the conflict up to chance by making sure there are equal numbers for some fabricated ideal of bravery or "parity". You fight because you want to win, for the most part. What's the best way of winning? Overwhelming force.

Why? Because with overwhelming force you minimize the threat and danger to your side, while insuring victory.


Now, This is not to say that I have not ever played the honorable or brave or parity at all costs type role...I have...and often actually.

I just don't think that that should be an artificial "norm" that should be expected of anyone or any group (aside from those groups that specifically enforce such limits upon themselves, then I still don't think bitching about them failing should be ooc at all. Take it to the immortal patrons, or the mortal leaders.)

If you are walking down eastern, all by your lonesome, and you get ganged down by 5 (empires/scions/tribunals/maran/outlanders/heralds)....there is probably a very good *IC* *ROLEPLAY* reason that they decided that your death was a more important goal than giving you a chance to continue to exist. In that case, deal with it *IC* and with *ROLEPLAY*....don't go bitching about it on Dio's or here.

I'm just sick of the:

"(empire/scion/maran/outlanders/tribunl/ragers/etc.) are ganging bitches who couldn't kill me one on one." ooc whine that I have been hearing for the past 8 years playing this game.

If they think you NEED to die (again, except in a handful of specific cases) why *SHOULD* they have to or even WANT to kill you one on one....when 5 on one would be much more beneficial to whatever cause they espouse.

Ex

In all the examples you give, the "ganging" action puts an end to the war.

It might be justifiable rp, but do you want it to put an end to the game by making it no fun? Do you want to reward those that perma-group? After all, I'm sure plenty of warriors in real life have perma'd.

How about letting your friends hook you up with gear? In modern warfare, someone normally does.

Just because something happens in real life doesn't make it good for the game.

Only exception, which I'm sure you agree with, is it would be lame
if a person relied on it. Also, my characters, if they see a gang
party on their own end forming, usually go and do something else if
there is something else they can do. Rather just let a 4 on 1 stay a
4 on 1 instead of being 5 on 1.

Otherwise, with that one exception that so long as a person just
doesn't absolutely rely on ganging for all his pking needs... all it
does is become a battle of who can pull their own punches less.

There's always one group of assholes that think they aren't ganging
you because they're four villagers and you're a Conjurer with a demon,
an elemental and a nightwalker.

There's always going to be a jerk with an out of range healer in their
group.

There's always going to be some piss-ant that finds a new nightgaunt
location behind a locked door where him and all his friends are.

The best thing, I think is to:
1) Don't rely on ganging;
2) Learn to avoid getting ganged; and
3) Learn to pick off the gangers separately
(depends heavily on class, of course)

Anyways, rant off.

- Kazadan

In real life you don't get 20 points of Constituion and lose a little bit every time you die.

IC: the fact that you won't die for good if you do lose the fight means that the world would have the luxury of putting more of an emphasis on bravery and parity in combat.

OOC: this is a game. I generally appreciate it when the people I play with don't create roles that demand, for example, they gang all the time, full loot, sacrifice and then taunt mercilessly.

It's very lame when people whine about ganging on the forums, I agree, or even in the game in an ooc manner. Still, I have much more respect for people that take the time to craft interesting roles that still make the game fun for other people.

The gist of what you want to say is: ganging is fine by you. I totally agree. i even support ganging in CF context. Superiority in numbers, large groups always give a sense of security and power. Whether in game or RL, the majority wins. In fact, I take ganging as an everyday part of CF. The moment I log in, I am always prepared to get ganged. Now, whether I gang or not is a very personal choice or style of play.

What I understand is the Imms try to even the odds for people who are ganging repeatedly. It feels good when you are on the winning side, but it sucks real bad if you are at the receiving end of it. So to be a little more newbie friendly, without the victim trying to figure out why a group of people keeps picking on him, the Imms decided to make some small changes to at least give the victim a chance to flee/escape.

All in all, I'm quite convinced it's for the greater good of the game.

.