I'm just curious. There used to be a ton of mace specs, and from what I see on the Battlefield there are much fewer now. Any chance of you making their other skills useful(they are only semi-useful now) to make up for what they lost in cranial?

Suggestions:
1. Dent - Hitting someone so hard their breastplate breaks in half should do damage. Also maybe dented but not destroyed items could hamper ac and agility. For example, I dent someones armor out of shape, it should make it harder for them to manuever in it all mishapen.

2. Backhand - Allow someone with 100% backhand to get automatic backhands rarely in combat. After all, it's just hitting them on the backswing after you already struck them. This wouldn't fire off alot, but at least people might practice the skill more.

3. Deflect shield - You knock a shield out of someones hand so hard, that their hand is too numb to use anything else for an hour and they take damage from that blast which knocks it out of their hand or destroys it.

4. Drum - Allow that fifth bonus hit more often. I remember from my many old mace specs that seeing that fifth strike was so rare that I had actually forgotten that could happen a few times.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Maybe it's just because I'm playing a gnome, but I have found plenty of mace specs. From what I've seen at hero, there seems to be a fairly even number of each spec, perhaps a few more HtH but I think that's for when you backup plan when you lose strenght.

I actually would like to see things done so that warriors weren't in such a majority. I can see them being the most common type of adventure, but not to the extent it is now. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions to help with this.

Flix

We have pretty good numbers on how many people are playing what and how successful they are with it. We're not a slave to those numbers, but at times they're a useful tool.

I expect warriors to be very popular for the forseeable future, simply because they're the most customizable class so far. If we're seeing a lot of one specific kind of warrior, that's a definite problem.

I expect warriors to be very popular for the forseeable future, simply because they're the most customizable class so far.


That level of customization is something I have always wanted to see as an innate part of every class, and I do believe there is room to expand in that direction. Off the top of my head, here are some various ways to emphasize the classes:

Assassin
Physical combat-oriented (what we have now)
Magic-oriented (obfuscation and damaging focus, with minor emphasis on divination)
Combo

Shaman
Immediate damage
Duration damage
Personal boosts
Group boosts
Combo

Anti-Paladin
Demonic Boons (a wide variety of nasty abilities and/or tweaks to existing anti-paladin abilities that become available at certain levels)

Druid
Main focus: conservation
Main focus: reclamation

You could play with the specifics, but i envision the first type being stronger in the wilds, while the second type would gain enhanced abilities for durations while taking the fight to civilization.

Ranger
Permanent boons connected to various wild spirits, be they good, neutral, or evil.


That's all I can think of for the time being, but it's just an example. I'm going to boil this down to a question for you, Nepenthe. Are we going to see the expansion of class customization on this kind of level, or even on a smaller scale? If so, will it be in 2005?

It's safe to say that as classes get revamped, they generally will be more and not less customizable. The way in which that happens will generally, but not always, vary from class to class.

In addition to all of the relatively small additions and tweaks that I have on the to-do list now that I'm more than marginally active again, I would also like to see one big class revamp this year. We'll see if that actually happens or not.

If you can pummel with hands and have people "Dazed" from the blows, maybe magnify this daze for mace specs as I imagine getting drummed with maces would stun the heck out of someone, maybe making them prone to more damage if a 4/5 hit drum lands.

1. Cranial-Concussion
Like a stab-twist combo. A mace-spec executing cranial can lead to the next combo concussion where there is a small percentage of the victim's next attack to hit anyone in the room, including his own groupmates. This is due to some serious head damage where he gets disoriented and swings wildly, something like a knee-jerk reaction.

If a mage gets concussion, he can fail his next spell or direct it wrongly on another person. If a person isn't in the fight, he gets drawn in to fight the mace-spec warrior.

2. Forget dent. Don't like destroying equipment.

3. I like deflect shield suggestion. Either make the person unable to wield the shield for the next hour, or drop the shield.

>1. Cranial-Concussion
>Like a stab-twist combo. A mace-spec executing cranial can
>lead to the next combo concussion where there is a small
>percentage of the victim's next attack to hit anyone in the
>room, including his own groupmates. This is due to some
>serious head damage where he gets disoriented and swings
>wildly, something like a knee-jerk reaction.
>
>If a mage gets concussion, he can fail his next spell or
>direct it wrongly on another person. If a person isn't in the
>fight, he gets drawn in to fight the mace-spec warrior.

This sounds kinda cool. I like it.

I agree that mace is in need of a little attention. It's something I've talked about with a few people and is on my eventual list.

>I agree that mace is in need of a little attention. It's
>something I've talked about with a few people and is on my
>eventual list.

Axe, spear, hands are all in need of attention - nerfing of specific things which are way too good.

Axe - pincer should never be that consistent. It's not easy to do, plus maybe some -mv since you're lifting two 30 lb axes and swinging them into someone. Disembowel also looks too consistent.

Spear - impale is far too good for the risk/reward involved.

Hands - make them much more easily parried.

Warriors right now are much too good. Leave mace the way it is and pay attention on some other class that needs it, like rangers or shamans.

>Axe - pincer should never be that consistent. It's not easy to do, plus maybe some -mv since you're lifting two 30 lb axes and swinging them into someone. Disembowel also looks too consistent.

Pincer hardly needs nerfing. Its the lagging move for axe specs, even then it is consistant lag. Its never going to perma lag you, you are always going to have an entire ROUND of combat to do whatever you want to do, be it flee, disarm, strip. I really dont think pincer needs anything. Disembowel is too consistant? Are you kidding me? It is anything but consistant. Almost every single time the oppurtunity comes up in pks to use it it is much better to use pincer, because then you have a much better chance at killin them. Disembowel is good the way it is, even at 100 it doesnt hit all that much and has uses only in certain circumstances.

Impale was toned down. It used to be much worse bleeding and worse -str and dex. The way it is now is better, miss and they get a free hit, hit and they bleed for 12+ hours, but not hardcore DISMEMBERS.

H2H specs are fine as is. If you let them be parried like anyone else who uses h2h then they would be so ####ty I doubt anyone would ever use them, and I'm thinking the imms are looking for balance, so to balance them they made them harder to parry. I don't see anything wrong with it.

My 2 cents.

Blobqirt

>H2H specs are fine as is. If you let them be parried like anyone >else who uses h2h then they would be so ####ty I doubt anyone would >ever use them, and I'm thinking the imms are looking for balance, so >to balance them they made them harder to parry. I don't see anything >wrong with it.

I disagree severely here. I played/watched them over the past year or so and they definitely are too difficult to parry and always have been, and this is from someone playing them from both sides. Their skills are premium and versatile, and would get plenty of use. But for right now, for a brief period of time it was the 'new axe spec' as someone put it. The only difference is how the damage is doled out. Many of the situations you'd want axe, hand to hand can do just as well in simply because they land too many hits against people with weapons. Tweak that downward a bit and hand to hand will be fine right where it is for some years yet.

But I also have played h2h's and otherwise and always found h2h hands land with great frequency, even on my chars that have perfected h2h, relative to other weapons.

I don't know what it is, but my gut feeling is that something isn't quite right with the parrying of hands.

If I had to guess, I'd say it feels like the "can't miss" result that an RNG can generate comes up more with h2h than other specs.

You and I have the same gut feeling.

Tone down the frequency of hits and H2H will be sweet as pie where it would be. Right now people just aren't using and abusing it enough on other non-melee classes with mad tanking...

>>Axe - pincer should never be that consistent. It's not easy
>to do, plus maybe some -mv since you're lifting two 30 lb axes
>and swinging them into someone. Disembowel also looks too
>consistent.
>
>Pincer hardly needs nerfing. Its the lagging move for axe
>specs, even then it is consistant lag. Its never going to
>perma lag you, you are always going to have an entire ROUND of
>combat to do whatever you want to do, be it flee, disarm,
>strip. I really dont think pincer needs anything.

Lag wasn't my point. The partial success stupidity for instance, the damage bonus one gets to their hits from a successful pincer. It should either miss or hit. No in-betweens. And frankly, I see those in-betweens happening a lot.

Disembowel
>is too consistant? Are you kidding me? It is anything but
>consistant. Almost every single time the oppurtunity comes up
>in pks to use it it is much better to use pincer, because then
>you have a much better chance at killin them.

Again, it should hit 1 in 10. I see it at about 1 in 4. That's pretty good gambling odds, Tex. Sometimes it still does damage if you miss.

Disembowel is
>good the way it is, even at 100 it doesnt hit all that much
>and has uses only in certain circumstances.

>Impale was toned down. It used to be much worse bleeding and
>worse -str and dex. The way it is now is better, miss and they
>get a free hit, hit and they bleed for 12+ hours, but not
>hardcore DISMEMBERS.

Here, I gotta laugh. The last time I was impaled, I counted the hits it got on me. 14 EVISCERATES-DISMEMBERS. That's through no prot at all, and I was lucky I had so much money else I wouldn't have survived that onslaught from one successful impale.

>H2H specs are fine as is. If you let them be parried like
>anyone else who uses h2h then they would be so ####ty I doubt
>anyone would ever use them, and I'm thinking the imms are
>looking for balance, so to balance them they made them harder
>to parry. I don't see anything wrong with it.

You haven't fought enough of them then as a primary spec. As I recall, Dhug (a svirfnebli hands spec) did so well because he was hard to parry/dodge, and I've had the same experience.

I personally see axe specs as being fine as is. No need to fix what aint broken.

>You haven't fought enough of them then as a primary spec. As I recall, Dhug (a svirfnebli hands spec) did so well because he was hard to parry/dodge, and I've had the same experience.

Heh, funny. I just stopped playing Golron, axe/hand who con died with over 500 hours. I also played Akrangol, storm pole/h2h a little after the new h2h changes came in. I have also fought PLENTY of h2h specs with all my characters inbetween. So saying that I haven't fought enough of them is way off.

Stop, just stop...

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>Axe - pincer should never be that consistent. It's not easy to
>do, plus maybe some -mv since you're lifting two 30 lb axes
>and swinging them into someone. Disembowel also looks too
>consistent.

I don't know if pincer is as consistant as you think. I think the only possible change to pincer could be if you miss with both axes then the missed pinceree should have a free hard shot at you. Disembowel isn't that consistant. Often times you miss and or just do damage which is a round in which you aren't lagged which leaves and opening to word or flee.


>Spear - impale is far too good for the risk/reward involved.

Maybe. You gotta remember that every spear wielder except felar do not benefit from dual wield so it's not like the other raced spear wielders are uber deathful unless you let them be. IF impale were nerfed I would like to see an improvement in other spear/staff skills. Crescent for example is an ok damage skill but it's damage output, in my opinion, doesn't warrant use in a pk situation. Perhaps make crescent have the ability to destroy cloth and leather armor and necklaces.


>Hands - make them much more easily parried.

I would be more down for them defending worse and attacking better. But I don't think it should be changed at all. Unless you are fighting a gnome you dont' have the option of exploiting a vuln which narrows down their deathfulness some.

>Warriors right now are much too good. Leave mace the way it is
>and pay attention on some other class that needs it, like
>rangers or shamans.

While I do agree that warriors are fantastic, from my limited viewpoint, it seems that unless played by a "professional", they aren't as evenfooted at hero as some other classes. Could be totally wrong about that, just my observation.

As for shamans, I think they are long overdue for a rico y suave makeover. Their powers are fine, they just taste like sawdust.

As for rangers I think they are perhaps only a hero ranged skill away from being perfect. Great class.

>>Axe - pincer should never be that consistent. It's not easy
>to
>>do, plus maybe some -mv since you're lifting two 30 lb axes
>>and swinging them into someone. Disembowel also looks too
>>consistent.
>
>I don't know if pincer is as consistant as you think. I think
>the only possible change to pincer could be if you miss with
>both axes then the missed pinceree should have a free hard
>shot at you. Disembowel isn't that consistant. Often times
>you miss and or just do damage which is a round in which you
>aren't lagged which leaves and opening to word or flee.

Disembowel should very well be an "all or nothing" skill. i.e. if you #### up, you should lag hard. If you succeed, no disembowel, then damage. If you disembowel, then you disembowel.

Even if you hit with one axe and don't lag, pincer's still nice. Compare to some other skills that do similar damage (double thrust for instance) which has a fail/succeed, and none of pincer's partial success stupidity.

If a race that doesn't normally wield axes too well goes out of their way just for axe spec, that should tell you something's wrong. The rash of arials and one elf axe spec I know of, plus the majority of warriors go with axe.

>>Spear - impale is far too good for the risk/reward involved.
>
>Maybe. You gotta remember that every spear wielder except
>felar do not benefit from dual wield so it's not like the
>other raced spear wielders are uber deathful unless you let
>them be. IF impale were nerfed I would like to see an
>improvement in other spear/staff skills. Crescent for example
>is an ok damage skill but it's damage output, in my opinion,
>doesn't warrant use in a pk situation. Perhaps make crescent
>have the ability to destroy cloth and leather armor and
>necklaces.

Sure. Improve other things, drop something from being that obscene. Crescent for one is underused, how often do you see leverage used in logged fights?

Again, another popular spec. Might need a look at.

>
>>Hands - make them much more easily parried.
>
>I would be more down for them defending worse and attacking
>better. But I don't think it should be changed at all.
>Unless you are fighting a gnome you dont' have the option of
>exploiting a vuln which narrows down their deathfulness some.

I guess. I was fighting a hand spec just the other day with near-perfect defenses, full defensive mode (sword/shield) and he still 3-rounded me. Mind, he got a six-hit pummel or something in there to boot, but I wasn't parrying him nearly as well as I thought I might given I did practice hand-to-hand a bit.

Warriors right now are much too good. Leave mace the way it
is and pay attention on some other class that needs it, like
rangers or shamans.
>
>While I do agree that warriors are fantastic, from my limited
>viewpoint, it seems that unless played by a "professional",
>they aren't as evenfooted at hero as some other classes.
>Could be totally wrong about that, just my observation.

In my own observations, warriors have been dominating the hero range. Sure, you can play an invoker and prep out the ass for one and then kill him (time involved vs. reward for that class are about equal) or hope to get the sleep as a necro with the same old one-sided kill strategy.

>As for shamans, I think they are long overdue for a rico y
>suave makeover. Their powers are fine, they just taste like
>sawdust.

Yeah.

>As for rangers I think they are perhaps only a hero ranged
>skill away from being perfect. Great class.

this is what I mean. The couple skills to "finish" the class.

Whether or not that is related to general hit/miss code, double thrust success/failure code, or a combination of both, I don't know.

I vote against more gear-destroying skills.

I'd like to see macey things, if that makes sense. Like someone getting knocked upside the head and being "delerious", however you want to define that game-play wise. Maybe they see things that aren't there or miss things that are. Though I guess that's a little bit too much like certain bard songs.

Maybe a mini-boneshatter that stacks and maledicts different stats. Like nerve but with damage. Could maybe be added as a side effect of backhand. Could randomly target kneecaps, collarbone, forearm, ribs, etc.

An idea for dent: It seems a little silly that dent destroys metal, given metal bends. Hence the word "dent". You can dent something a ton before it actually falls apart. Now, what *does* fall apart rather easily when struck by a blunt instrument is stone/gem. Possibly wood too, since it could just break (whereas metal would bend). Just a thought.