As it stands flurry seems to do best with the stronger races.
I would suggest that a weaker race could flurry just as well if wielding lighter swords (12 lbs or less - or whatever the implementers think best).

Thank you.

Of Salvatore's Drow vs CF Dark-elf, Drizzt as a hero and gifted warrior of one of his kind, flurry, strength, dex and swiftness, and warrior specs.

I deleted the post. Don't think anyone will be interested.

All in all, Drizzt is a one-off (his father excluded) and he is a damn good warrior. So he is talented in the ways of sword. Drows don't have the vulnerability as compared to CF dark-elfs.

Fan of Drizzt and Wulfgar.

Does it make sense that a giant flurrying with two massive swords would do the same damage as an elf flurrying with two slender blades? I'm not an implementor, but that's my initial thought reading your post.

Was something along the lines of weaker races having benefits like better dodging.

That said, it has never made a lot of sense to me that giants land more hits than the faster races. I can see why they'd hit harder, but not more frequently.

- That said, it has never made a lot of sense to me that giants land more hits than the faster races. I can see why they'd hit harder, but not more frequently.

Take a swift 100 pound weakling and a slow drooling idiot who happens to weigh 500 pounds and has incredible endurance and strength. Give them each a 10 pound sword in each hand, then ask them to hack away for 5 seconds. Who do you think would land more blows? I'd go with the drooling idiot.

Khas

Wield two sticks and flurry with them RL (not too big, so that you don't accidentally hit anything), as fast as you can. Also, try pummeling with two hands as fast as you can. You'll find that this kind of move is tiring and wears you down, as it gets to your strength as you go on flurrying. By doing this, you'll see that a stronger person than you would probably be able to keep flurrying longer.

Flurry is a move that is about dealing a series of blows swiftly with exploding strength, so it's pretty much strength-based in my opinion. You don't jump around dodging while you deliver the flurrying blows, so it doesn't really help your flurry.

1) I did not mean the same damage per hit, that comes from the giants strength bonus for having titanic strength, that's the + damage that I am 'not' speaking of.

2) A giant spinning two swords like a tornado? Now to me, that doesn't make sense, the physics are off, they are too big. Flurry came from the Drizzt books. It is a spinning dark-elf with two blades.

What I meant was the actual number of flurry hits. Yes that would increase the overall damage, but not the damage for each hit. Giants will always have that over say, an elf, or wood elf, or dark elf.

I happen to disagree.

I'm not speaking of damage per hit either. I see a giant flurry as a titanic burst of strength, swinging swords like in a flurry takes enormous strength, I don't care what their weight. Of course, that's just my opinion.

I think a spinning dark-elf with two blades is valid, however, flurry didn't come the Drizzt books. Japanese Kendo masters had been flurrying for centuries before Drizzt came on the scene. However, I still think a fire giant well versed in swords would have a better flurry than a dextrous kendo master.

Again, that's all just my opinion. I'm sure there are many who disagree. Is the seemingly weaker flurry of the arial sword spec enough to make you say a giant sword spec is better? It's cyclical. After Shaitar and Daevor, it was clear that the arial sword spec was the greatest warrior ever to walk Thera. After Minalcar, it was clear that the fire giant sword spec was the greatest warrior to ever walk Thera. After Jinroh, it was clear that the duergar dagger spec was the greatest warrior to walk Thera. Basically, there's checks and balances in each race/class combo, and reasons why each can make sense. But it usually just comes down to a Rolling Stones song...

The same old places and the same old songs
We've been going there for much too long
There's something wrong and it gives me that feeling
Inside that I know I must be right
It's the singer not the song
It's the singer not the song
It's the singer not the song

Khas

Does a football player or a ballet dancer spin better?
Can an ice skater of three hundred pounds do a triple?

About Japanese flurries. I know what you are trying to say, but really, come on. Flurry came from the Drizzt books.

But since you brought it up, how big do you think those Japanese flurriers were? I can just see them - sumo wrestler flurriers. Do you think warriors don't spin when doing a flurry? Do you think it looks like drumming, but with swords? How wierd, I never pictured it that way.

You've got a good imagination.

>About Japanese flurries. I know what you are trying to say,
>but really, come on. Flurry came from the Drizzt books.

No, no it didn't.

nt

Yes.

Hard to believe Drizzt didn't even enter your mind when you implemented it. No challenge there, just wondering how you never even thought of Drizzt.

I have not read the books, but from seeing Drizzt in Thera and knowing about the dark-elves, the drow city ... and from NOT seeing Japanese two handed sword influences (in CF), and Thera being based on the entire cult of the Lord of the Rings/Wheel of Time/Drizzt and the many other book sources that we have all read and loved ... one would not think 'Flurry, ya, like the (giant) japanese'.

That's what I get for thinking.

Most of the original "Team Weapon Specs" hadn't read Salvatore. Boltthrower obviously had. I had, but hadn't touched any of his books for ~8-10 years previous to that, and I didn't exactly retain much of them.

(Side note: Cross, which predates the Weapon Spec project by a few years, is definitely inspired by Salvatore.)

I'm not necessarily saying we were thinking Samurai action either. My own mental image at the time would've been something like a fire giant dual-wielding swords bellowing an unintelligible warcry and just lauching himself in a fury at his opponent, battering the opponent's guard out of the way with sheer, relentless force. Nothing based in any particular fantasy or mythology other than CF itself.

Hard to believe Drizzt didn't even enter your mind when you implemented it. No challenge there, just wondering how you never even thought of Drizzt.

I have not read the books, but from seeing Drizzt in Thera and knowing about the dark-elves, the drow city ... and from NOT seeing Japanese two handed sword influences (in CF), and Thera being based on the entire cult of the Lord of the Rings/Wheel of Time/Drizzt and the many other book sources that we have all read and loved ... one would not think 'Flurry, ya, like the (giant) japanese'.

I've never read any of the Drizzt books. I can't even name the author. But the concept of naming an all-out rapid series attacks a "flurry" isn't foreign at all to me. Boxing announcers will speak of a "flurry" of punches when discussing a maneuver that's very much like a CF flurry, only without the swords. I don't think they're all big Drizzt fans. The CF maneuver is right in line with the dictionary.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Now, not saying you can't live life without reading them, but...you're definately missing out. He's a good author, and it's worth reading the books once at least, if you're going to be a big fan of fantasy.

I have read the books and I completely agree here. Even having read the books, it never even once vaguely occured to me that this skill was inspired by the books. I don't even remember reading the word "flurry" in the Drizzt series, reason being that if I did, I wouldn't have thought it to be Drizzt-specific any more so than any other sensible, accurate word used to describe an action.

Yesterday I did a web search on Salvatore, flurry, drizzt and came up with three quotes out of the books that refer to his fighting style using the word flurry.

And this is just with a web search, not a search within the books themselves.

Here is one:
... her lips utter silent curses in your face." -Zaknafein Do'Urden Drizzt set himself as thier blades met in ringing flurry. "I am a fighter," he declared. "A drow warrior!" "You are a dancer ...

Results 1 - 10 of about 885 for "muhammad ali" flurry. (0.18 seconds)

Ali's Journey Back To The Top Began 30 years Ago Tonight... 10.09 - Thirty years ago, on September 10, 1973, Muhammad Ali began the journey ... After Ali's flurry, he and Norton had some spirited exchanges with ...
www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-news/lotierzo1009.php - 21k - Cached - Similar pages


Muhammad Ali, The GreatestMuhammad Ali, the Greatest...Faster than Sugar Ray. ... The flurry that dropped a befuddled Brian London in the third frame, the right that stopped an ...
coxscorner.tripod.com/ali.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages


ALI, Movie Review with Will Smith as Muhammad Ali in a Michael ...... Mario Van Peebles as Malcolm X and Will Smith as Muhammad Ali ... on the receiving end of a flurry of Ali's punches—or Joe Frazier's, for that matter. ...
www.culturekiosque.com/nouveau/cinema/ali.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages


Sports: Breaking Records, Breaking Barriers | Muhammad Ali ...... Muhammad Ali rose from humble beginnings to become one of the most ... and then burst into an offensive flurry to win the heavyweight championship. ...
americanhistory2.si.edu/sports/exhibit/superstars/ali/ - 30k - Cached - Similar pages


MUHAMMAD ALI - The Greatest Of All TimeThis is the official website of Muhammad Ali. ... Bundini wanted a flurry, wanted it for morale, for Ali's good consciousness tonight, for the confirming of ...
www.ali.com/article.cfm?id=30 - 44k - Cached - Similar pages


"MUHAMMAD ALI"... PANEL 4 NEW ANGLE - Clay passes a brick wall, throws a flurry of punches at ... Muhammad Ali is what I will give him as long as he believes in Allah and ...
www.writersconference.com/crew/ali.html - 60k - Cached - Similar pages


Breaking the Barriers: A Houston Chronicle Special Section... After Muhammad Ali left Olympic Stadium and was escorted back to his hotel suite, he still refused to ... before unleashing another flurry of punches. ...
www.chron.com/content/chronicle/ sports/special/barriers/ali.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages


Mohammand Ali... just in case the great Muhammad Ali did the impossible just one more time, ... would immediately return that impenetrable flurry of his own blows. ...
www.jamaicanpride.com/boxing/ Images/People/mohammand_ali.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages


TIME Magazine Archive Article -- Two Down, One to Go -- Dec. 21, 1970Muhammad Ali was flabbergasted. Oscar Bonavena, the hulking, ... No one saw it, and Oscar wobbled to his feet to be dropped again by an Ali flurry. ...
www.time.com/time/archive/ preview/0,10987,904609,00.html - Similar pages


Laila Ali vs. Cassandra Geigger (February 11, 2005)... the daughter of the legendary heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali, ... Following a seven-shot flurry to the face, Geigger sank to the canvas under the ...
www.boxingtimes.com/analyses/ 2005/050211ali_geigger.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

You guys are great.
Read Amaranthe's posts.
'I don't remember the word 'flurry' even used in the books'
then later a post,
'Noone suggested the word flurry was not used in the books'

Now you do a search on the word flurry and hit lost of things that have no relation to CF, WHEREAS I did a search on the word flurry in RELATION to CF.

You guys are really showing your maturity.
KEEP THINGS THE WAY YOU WANT, JEEEEEESUS

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the word "flurry" was not used in that context in the books. Just that the context in the books is sort of a sensible English-language use of the word, not some unique Drizzt thing.

It's the definition of "A sudden burst or commotion" related to the word "flurry" being used to relate to the skill. I could also, in writing, say a character spouted off a "flurry of insults" or that there was a "flurry of activity" when the Pope arrived. Or, as Valg pointed out, a flurry of punches. The word could have just as easily been applied to *any* series of rapid attacks. I mean, have you never heard the word "flurry" used to describe something outside of the context of these few books?

If there's a novel somewhere in which the author describes an overseer subduing a slave with "the sting of his whip" (and I imagine there probably is), it doesn't mean that our "sting" skill was inspired by the selfsame novel. It just means that both the author and the CF skill designer both had the same glaringly obvious word occur to them for the context of describing a type of attack with a whip.

You post:
'I don't even remember reading the word "flurry" in the Drizzt series'

Later you post:
'I don't think anyone was suggesting that the word "flurry" was not used in that context in the books'

>You post:
>'I don't even remember reading the word "flurry" in the Drizzt
>series'
>
>Later you post:
>'I don't think anyone was suggesting that the word "flurry"
>was not used in that context in the books'

If you can't see that those two statements aren't in
opposition to each other, you have larger problems
than not understanding that nothing in the game supports
the idea of spinning during a flurry.

The entirity of that quote was:

"I don't even remember reading the word "flurry" in the Drizzt series, reason being that if I did, I wouldn't have thought it to be Drizzt-specific any more so than any other sensible, accurate word used to describe an action."

I don't specifically remember reading the word "kick" either, even though the word may well have been there, and I certainly wouldn't argue with you or anyone else who claimed is was.

What I *would* argue with, is if someone said the word "kick" was so exclusively conjured out of the imagination of Salvatore, that the fact that we have a "kick" skill was clearly borrowed from the Drizzt series.

Again I ask, have you seriously never heard the word "flurry" used in a context aside from CF or Drizzt books?

I'm not even sure why I continue posting on this thread. I'm just sickly fascinated by the insanity of it.

First of all, I don't think RA salvitore is really that good of a writer. Second, Being part of the SCA, www.sca.org , and actually doing flourintine two-sword weapon fighting with armor and all. I can tell you that there aer some big guys out there, (Hatur 5'6" and to give you an idea of how big this dude is, My kidney belt fits around his thigh) This guy is as quick as I am, if not faster, and watching him spit out six to eight strikes in a few seconds not only hurts its spectacular. Anyway more about Drizzt, He really aint #### compared to like Elminster or Ahklaur. *shrug* never really understood the hype.

-Rulanit-

A friend told me, read these books, and I opened one to read a paragraph describing FLURRY. This was about seven years ago.

It went into detail on what Drizzt's fighting style was. How he would hold a sword in each hand, the left hand sword pointed backwards, the right handed sword held normally, and then using incredible skill and quickness he would spin into combat with a flurry of blows. A whirlwind.

Now I am sure I don't do the paragraph justice, but it was TOTALLY a flurry description. That's likely why I am so shocked by all the hair splitting.

Oh well.

Read more books for the love of christ. Yes, I've read Salvator. Yes, I thought they were great. No, I don't have to relate everything I see in cf to a Salvatore book. Try Piers Anthony, Robert Jordan, Tolkien just to name a few other to look into. If those don't do it for you just read anything from the forgotten realms series.

What the Imms are trying to say is that the flurry Drizzt has is different from the one implemented by CF. And it won't be happening that anyone is going to change the current flurry.

Cheers.

nt

- Does a football player or a ballet dancer spin better?

Depends. I'll take Barry Sanders or Gale Sayers spin over the spin of former ballet dancer Ron Reagan Jr. Did you see the double spin move by Colts defensive end Dwight Freeney (270 pounds) against the Patriots in the playoffs? It was simply amazing. In general, you're correct, however there are numerous exceptions that come to mind to me immediately.

- About Japanese flurries. I know what you are trying to say, but really, come on. Flurry came from the Drizzt books.

You really need to look up flurry in the dictionary.

- But since you brought it up, how big do you think those Japanese flurriers were? I can just see them - sumo wrestler flurriers. Do you think warriors don't spin when doing a flurry? Do you think it looks like drumming, but with swords? How wierd, I never pictured it that way.

No here's where we disagree, and your point of view is as valid as mind. I don't see warriors spinning when they flurry. I see them driving forward and hacking and slashing with every bit of strength they have. Which is why they take so long to recover from it.

- You've got a good imagination.

Thank you. So do you. Aside from the origination of flurry, your comments and imagination are as valid as mine. I'm not going to say you're right or wrong, what you imagine is your own business. And that's why each player see's things differently when they play, and to me, that's a wonderful thing.

Khas

*snort* Stupid dark-elves. What do they know about warriors anyways? Llorenthos? Yeah, well...he got lucky I say. Duergar dagger specs, BAH! Arial's the way to go man, arial all the way. So says Rhuean. HRMPH!

>2) A giant spinning two swords like a tornado? Now to me,
>that doesn't make sense, the physics are off, they are too
>big. Flurry came from the Drizzt books. It is a spinning
>dark-elf with two blades.

*Not according to the helpfile (which must be older than
just about anything in the game from the way it reads)
*You can flurry with one sword in CF
*Like the Kendo folks Khasotholas mentioned, you should
read up on Kuk Sool Won and ssang jang gum for a style of
two sword fighting that predates Drizzt. Pretty cool stuff.
*It isn't just you swinging. There's also the guy trying
to defend himself. You're thinking the speed with light
weapons would offset the fact that they *are* light weapons
and more easily blocked. That's not always the case.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll think about it, but I wouldn't hold
my breath on any substantial changes since it doesn't really
work the way you've been thinking it does.

Qaledus

CF really has no stat for quickness, aside from what I assume to be three levels once you get haste and slow-like effects involved. I don't really see a weak elf being able to have the stamina to keep swinging those swords, even if he is more naturally 'quick' and 'dexterous' than that big giant. Even moreso, as he gets tired much faster, his 'quickness' would actually be much less than the giant's. I imagine a 12-foot behemoth could swing those 10lb swords pretty damn fast and for a much longer time than an elf or arial, even though he can't do the pretty dodging and associated dexterity-based acrobatics, to semi-reiterate what Khas said.

('no stat for quickness' Uh - dexterity? But his isn't my issue.)

'I don't really see a weak elf being able to have the stamina to keep swinging those swords'

I would agree if you are speaking of heavy swords.
Put a fencing sword in each hand, and spin. Walla - flurry.

Apparently you few think giants spinning around with swords is perfectly natural, while an elf spinning with fencing swords is unnatural ... whatever.

I am trying to drop the subject, but with posts like:
'CF has no stat for quickness'
'The Drizzt books don't mention 'flurry' that I recall'
'I read the Drizzt books and Drizzt and dark-elves are in CF, but I didn't think of flurry at all when coding flurry'
I just can't help but respond, I almost think you guys are trolling. But please, stop trying to convince me with these wierd posts.

I think most players don't think of flurry as spinning the body like you do. If you polled everyone on CF I bet you'd find that the vast majority see it as a driving attack windmilling the arms.

As long as you continue to be in love with Drizzt, CF's flurry isn't going to make sense to you. It's a fierce, driving series of attacks that require lots of energy, hence your mv being eaten up. It's not some drow ballerina move.