Right now trap thieves can do mediocre (some would say "crap") damage, knock people out (though if I recall correctly the duration on that is now really weak), and *gasp* make people glow. Sure, they can use the standard thief abilities as well, but I am talking just about the dedicated path. I don't know if it's a lack of ideas or motivation on behalf of the path-creators to do something about this, so I am just going to toss out some ideas of my own.

First off, the path needs WAY more variety. Some effects that traps should be able to do are:


Deafen

There is nothing improbable, impossible, or illogical about a trapper being able to assemble a very loud device that deafens everyone who gets caught in it.


Curse

Essential for a trapper to be good solo. If you are able to curse someone who is deep in an area that you have booby-trapped to high hell, well you might actually have a chance to nail them. Right now the most powerful thing going against the trapper is that someone can just word or teleport and they are utterly screwed.


Blind

Flashbang. Period.


Maledictions

Give me poison. Give me plague. Give me a common cold. Give me ANYTHING so that I can inflict some kind of debilatating effect on my enemies. This could be reliant solely on the ingredient used. Maybe you can "augment" your traps with an additional ingredient to add improved effects. You figure it out. I just know I want it.


Lag

How about putting out a simple bear trap to inflict damage and keep a person from moving for a while?


Bouncy Bombs

I propose that the trapper path be given the only out-of-the-room, indirect damage/sleep/glow/etc ability in the game. Give them the ability to make a trap that's like a grenade in that it can be tossed into an adjoining room where it then triggers. This would be awesome in raids where the shmoes sit outside the inner guardian, or to whack someone who is damaged, but just ran to their group who is now watching their back. I would just LOVE to see this, and this is the only class/path circumstance that I think could have it without being unbalanced.


Sticky Bombs

Usable with any effect in a trappers arsenal, a trapper can attach a timed device to a player. The device will explode at the end of the timer. Simple and nasty.


Reaction vs. Action

Right now the path does ####ty, on the whole, because you have to wait for people to move into harm's way before anything in your trapper skillset is going to be effective. This should not be such a problem. By making the class more "pro-active", by giving them timed devices, bouncy-bombs and sticky bombs, you basically make them a lot more appealing.


If none of this seems appealing, I'd like to know what is trying to be accomplished with the path. I mean, I have never heard of or personally seen a badass trapper. Ever. I've seen some that have been nuisances and have occasionally pulled off some neat, lucky kills, but these are far and few between. I ask you to implement some or all of these ideas. I think we will all be pleasantly suprised by how much better this currently lack-luster path will become.

>I don't know if it's a lack of ideas or motivation on
>behalf of the path-creators to do something about this,

For future reference, this is where I stopped reading.

Qaledus

Sorry if it came of acidically, really. I didn't even think about that. Would you consider re-reading it and scratching that part out?

>Sorry if it came of acidically, really. I didn't even think
>about that. Would you consider re-reading it and scratching
>that part out?
>

Sure thing.

>Maledictions
>Give me poison. Give me plague. Give me a common cold. Give me ANYTHING so that I can inflict some kind of debilatating effect on my enemies. This could be reliant solely on the ingredient used. Maybe you can "augment" your traps with an additional ingredient to add improved effects. You figure it out. I just know I want it.

That's on the list. The maledictions aren't going to be as
uber as people are twitching for, at least initially, but
a few of them might appeal to powergamers. The point is more
to get an infrastructure in place.

>Lag
>How about putting out a simple bear trap to inflict damage and keep a person from moving for a while?

I don't want to overshadow knock-out's niche too much, but there
might be something we can do there.


>Bouncy Bombs
>I propose that the trapper path be given the only out-of-the-room,

*BUZZ* Like I said in the other post, this is slippery slope to
ranged weapons and I don't see it happening.


>Sticky Bombs
>Usable with any effect in a trappers arsenal, a trapper can attach a timed device to a player. The device will explode at the end of the timer. Simple and nasty.

I actually used these on a MUD about 14 years ago, and they were
a nightmare when it came to PK abuse. I'll farm it around, but I
have some misgivings about it.


>Reaction vs. Action
>Right now the path does ####ty, on the whole, because you have to wait for people to move into harm's way before anything in your trapper skillset is going to be effective. This should not be such a problem. By making the class more "pro-active", by giving them timed devices, bouncy-bombs and sticky bombs, you basically make them a lot more appealing.

Heh. *Anything* makes them more appealing. The stuff on the
Announcement Board makes them more appealing and it is just
shuffling things (earlier glowing traps and shield block
anyone?*).

>If none of this seems appealing, I'd like to know what is trying to be accomplished with the path. I mean, I have never heard of or personally seen a badass trapper. Ever. I've seen some that have been nuisances and have occasionally pulled off some neat, lucky kills, but these are far and few between.

What I could use are some more ideas that don't necessarily
involve traps or bombs. That whole variety thing.

>I ask you to implement some or all of these ideas. I think we will all be pleasantly suprised by how much better this currently lack-luster path will become.

We'll see. We'll see.

But we're on it. It'll just take a little more time.

Qaledus

What I could use are some more ideas that don't necessarily
involve traps or bombs. That whole variety thing.


Honestly? I have thought about this and without straying from what I think the idea of a trap thief is (non-direct combat that should be interesting and effective in any situation, even solo) I think it will be hard to add a lot of things that don't revolve around "traps" and "bombs".

I could suggest things that would help them gather all of their prep items, like massively increased mv's and mv regen (for poisoners too), and maybe the ability to just flat-out construct trap ingredients once they are high enough in the guild. I think it would be really cool to take "isolate" even farther, though, and give them a skill that will actually take a victim out of whatever group they are in. The chaos that could cause would be insane.

If trappers had some way of screwing with communications they might be more deadly solo. Of course, the problem is that this could be really overpowered if the trapper were running around in a gang and cutting you off from all communication. In a cabal war that would be a nightmare.

We could all throw out some goofball ideas, but there is a nagging question in my mind...

Why not combine trappers with some other path and create a stronger all-around path? I could see poison and traps going hand in hand. Both are fairly indirect, requiring both patience and guile. But if they were just slopped together right now it'd be too much. Abilities would have to be changed to reflect that new path, with some being axed altogether and some new ones being created. I know this is not going to happen, but if it did it might save some headaches.


Last thing: How about opening a new contest on the forums for 'trap thief' ideas? They've been publically acknowledged as being a jacked-up, weak path. So let's make the solution equally as public.

Suggestions

Lag traps that only allows basic look/inv/where and etc
except their only available pk skill is "murder".

Multidirectional "Bouncy Bombs" style traps that hit neighbouring
rooms to hit a (easier to save against) splash-damage.

Sticky Bombs that works like plant (if the trap-making skill was
successful) which has a timer depending on the ingredient (which
makes experimenting a must).

A great addition would be that any trap (knockout/glow/damage)
would add more maledictions depending on the scarceness/availability
of the trap ingredients. ie:

Low level traps do nothing but what they are for.(dam/glow/ko)
some low-lvl trap would cause bleeding (razors ?) or
some effects that are -1/3 (str/dex).
some mid-lvl trap ingredients could cause plague or similar effect
high-lvl trap ingredients could curse (magical ones ?)

Add some that lower moves ? (caltraps) ... let it slow em too ?

Add some thing that trappers do not depend on how the shadow
sect in empire does ? (the involves trapper-related options).
(Feel free to snip this if it involves secrets..)

a trapper_only whitesteel weapon would do no harm
either. Hey, after all, trappers can not spam blackjack/knockout/weaponbutt when this duergar ap/shaman/warrior is
chasing you when their traps have that lag and relative
low sucess rate After all, regardless of thief waylay, its a thief, no ranger. Can not just camo. A similar skill like camo that works only against duergar would help.

Just venting..

>Suggestions
>
>Lag traps that only allows basic look/inv/where and etc
>except their only available pk skill is "murder".

I'm not a big fan of this one, but we'll see.

>Multidirectional "Bouncy Bombs" style traps that hit
>neighbouring
>rooms to hit a (easier to save against) splash-damage.

This falls under ranged damage and is exceedingly unlikely.

>Sticky Bombs that works like plant (if the trap-making skill
>was
>successful) which has a timer depending on the ingredient
> which
>makes experimenting a must).

I actually used these on a different MUD before CF was around.
There were some game dynamics issues with PK that made them a
bad, bad deal. I'll give it some thought though.

>A great addition would be that any trap
> knockout/glow/damage)
>would add more maledictions depending on the
>scarceness/availability
>of the trap ingredients.

I've been working on something along these lines.

>a trapper_only whitesteel weapon would do no harm
>either.

That's not going to happen, just because of the nature
of the material.

>Just venting..

We're working on it (see Announcement Board) and they should
suck a little less each step along the way until we find the
right balance.