I think this is a good item for the game, but I think its effect duration is way, WAY too long. I got hit by this thing and was deafened for 21 hours, and that's through really good svs. It was enough time for me to go and heal up (as an elf), gather a couple lost preps, heal some more, and not be able to hear as the Fortress was decimated. I mean, a lot can happen in 21 ticks. Since this thing works pretty often as is, could the duration please be cut in half (at least), because it's a really devastating ability no matter how you slice it


Thanks in advance for whatever decision is made.

The major issue:

There was no saving throw. The mace either went off or it didn't (and it went off fairly often, and is a very good mace even if it never goes off). As the defender, there was nothing you could do to defend yourself from a very potent malediction. I added a (somewhat difficult) saving throw.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Should "I think this weapon is whacked" posts like this one go to the bug board, for someone to check balance and similar things?

Splntrd

The Bug Board is for when something is not functioning according to design. The Bug Team likes to be able to focus on things where one person can pick up the bug, glare at it, and squash it, without having to think too much about how they'd design the system in question from scratch.

Gameplay (for general things) or Ask An Immortal (for things which fall under a specific immortal) are the places to discuss things if you think the design is off base. In these cases, we generally like to hear more voices before deciding how to tweak the design.

It's generally more difficult to get a change done through Gameplay for these reasons- with a bug, it's pretty clear a fix is needed if one is practical. Gameplay questions tend to resemble how instant replay is used in the National (American) Football League... if the evidence for a change is murky and could be argued either way, the prevailing wisdom is to leave the existing decision unchanged. Two reasons for this:

1) Work-to-results ratio. There's always a ton of stuff to do. We should be focusing on things that we know we're going to prefer in the new state, rather than things that might or might not be better.

2) Changing one thing may break or alter other things in unintended ways. CF is a very complex system, and no one person understands all of it perfectly.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Thank you. All I wanted was for it to be looked into and I'm really glad you did. I really appreciate it.


(Feel free to look into the heartseekers if the popular opinion really is that they are that bogus).

> Feel free to look into the heartseekers if the popular
>opinion really is that they are that bogus).

I don't think they're as bad as all that, but I just did tweak them slightly. Specifically, part of the prog (mana cost for doing some of the nifty things) was written under the assumption that anyone who would actually want to use the dagger wouldn't have meditation. That's a change we ended up deciding not to make shortly thereafter.

Now, those classes that I assumed wouldn't have meditation and gave a mana break are going to pay the same cost as anyone else. Not a huge deal, but, there it is.

>Now, those classes that I assumed wouldn't have meditation and
>gave a mana break are going to pay the same cost as anyone
>else. Not a huge deal, but, there it is.

How about giving the victim a chance to avoid the prog entirely? It's a really good effect even adding the mana cost in, so you should be able to parry it just like you can those deathblows.

Case in note, it's a very, very bad thing for defensive form shapeshifters who have invested their lives into getting a form that is dedicated to dodging skills like this (lemur and mongoose come to mind). If you want to leave this dagger stupid, make the mace no_save again. It's the same thing, really.

Not it's not, not at all. The mace leaves a lasting affect, for a full day.

The dagger goes off and hits you for some damage, damage which can be reduced by you if you choose. And if you want, you can just leave after the first time. The mace goes off, nothing you can do about it.

1) I actually would not mind if deafen duration would be lowered on the mace.

2) I agree with assessment Heartseekers are little TOO good.

3) Prayer beads (along with embossed rings) - I personally think they should trigger less in combat.

4) The rest of 'thief' rumblings are not worth a dime.
Maybe limits on these items could be revisited. But this is about it.

Items you mention (ignoring defiance) are mostly defensive/utilitary in nature. Sure they add perks. So it is fun to have them.
Oh and you forgot Silent/Hell gear. It is currently next to impossible to get these items but there are WAY WAY more powerful things there.

nt

If the demonheaded mace's duration is changed, then I want the following changed as well.

*snip*

Moderator: Specifics are better found out in game. We don't need a huge list posted for no reason.

Lesson Iramath. There are a lot more bullcrap items on the good side then the evil side. Lets leave evil with their bonus items and we'll leave the goods with theirs. If you want to get rid of the mace, lowering its duration to lets say, 8 hours, fine, then you get to let me pick one of the above items to nerf as well, as I see fit. 24 hours of deafen sucks, sure. But it doesn't stop you from talking nor alerting your cabal that you are deafened and if something happens, write you a note. I mean seriously, it doesn't really affect you at all. At least be an invoker and complain, geez.

I'm talking about a 24 hour duration on an auto-progged mace that goes off on a common basis. If you want to rant about other items, go ahead, but do it in your own thread, not mine. I'm not even going to get into a debate about parity between the alignment-specific wonder-gear.

1. There is always going to be progged gear that is annoying to your certain character. There are always going to be skills you think are overpowered when used against you, but when you play that character with said supposedly over powered item/skill, you see its drawbacks.

2. I gave you one way of totally negating the deafened affect with your warrior. Turning it into some kind of huge drawback you are suffering (which its not for a warrior) and turning it into a mere annoyance.

3. The demonheaded mace goes off on a common basis, about once every three rounds. It is no different then when I have to face you wielding your heartseeker daggers that drop oblits/annilates on me and cause bleeding and stun me. I think that dagger is ####. So lets agree on there are some weapons that are limited and uberpowerful, and go with it. Deal with it. You make it sound like it is some crippling affect on you, when its hardly a deal. Try being on the end of the heartseeker bleeding/stun oblit manuever and maybe you will understand better. Thats the point here. You are complaining about one item, I am showing you that there are items of equal if not more bull that you are wielding, right now.

4. I do not think 24 hours on a mace that is limited to, at most, 2 in the game, is too powerful. Defiance, is unique supposedly and it should be. Heartseekers, actually, should be more limited then they are now. I have had three on a character at one time. Don't know what the limit is for them.

As I said, if you want to nerf the demonheaded mace, fine. Then I get to nerf the heartseeker dagger. Fair trade right? We both think the other is too powerful, why not bring both into fair range of each other and go from there.

Alright man, this is really not about you. This is me asking the Imms if the duration on the demon-headed mace is too much and should be looked at (the italicized text is to show the true topic, which was the intention from the beginning). I didn't ask, want, or invite all of the rest of this thread that you are throwing out there.

Also, it is really obvious who you are playing to me and I don't think you have a very objective opinion of my character (that includes the gear that I am currently using), because you completely hate my ass, so try to realize that your perspective is probably a bit skewed. And about the heartseeker...it doesn't stun. Yes, it can do sick damage, but I'm a god damned elf. Kill my weak, bony ass and be done with it.

Post whatever else you want if you really have to have the last word. I'm done here.

You're not understanding. He's bringing up the heartseeker dagger simply to put an argument, not because he's actually trying to get it changed. His point is there's loads of equipment in the game which is powerful, and that mace is virtually unimportant compared to them. He also gives more reasons NOT to change it; i.e., evils don't have very many nifty weapons like that (which some Imm explained awhile ago by saying evils generally need more functional weapons b/c they have more enemies, whereas goodies kill evils).

Splntrd

this is not about you, its not about me, its a discussion of a mace that deafens for 24 hours. It has deafened for 24 hours since it was put into the game, years ago. Point one.

This is not a personal vendetta as you wish it to be so it would be some excuse for my view. I could care less about you, your daggers, goodie equipment in general. Point two. I am using them as examples of things that are also overpowered equipment, to refute your "deafen" is too long claim.

Point three. Heartseekers do stun sometimes when prog goes off.

Point four. So your whole argument of why heartseekers are not bull is that they do sick damage, but you are an elf, and that I'm supposedly super bias because you rock or something?

Point five. I don't think you have any idea who I am. I just know you are playing and elf dagger spec, and that you have had heartseekers in the past. I'm personalizing the scenario for you.

This is an example of using similar things to support an argument against your hypothesis. Mace versus dagger. Why you think this is personal is beyond me.