Lokloq died about 200 hours sooner than average. I would guess wither can not have that kind of impact.

With several aging withers, how many hours could it change a character lifetime?

Was there something else involved with Lokloq? What was it?

Im pretty sure that the average lifespan thing was pulled from the time of characters from the graveyard. Generally speaking, an orc who hits age death is a chief. Im also pretty sure that being chief has some of the leader-y type benefits on aging and con loss.

Its also quite possible that I am completely misremembering the source of that stuff.

notex

People assume wither when they see shortened lifespans and jump the gun when it is more likely people just get bored and throw on age gear to be done early instead of deleting.

Could be wither tho.

Very much this.

It's one of those things that add a degree of asymmetry and make the game better. Plenty of similar nature things have been removed or changed already, end result being a drastically poorer experience.

It's not like you don't have options vs wither either. Orcs can carry lots and can gear accordingly if they expect it.

"It's one of those things that add a degree of asymmetry and make the game better."

Can you explain how being withered and loosing years off your life, ultimately meaning you play that character for less time makes the game better?

I have no issue whatsoever with loosing 30 strength but shouldnt that be enough. There is a permanant impact on the character that cannot be rectified in any way.

>"It's one of those things that add a degree of asymmetry and
>make the game better."
>
>Can you explain how being withered and loosing years off your
>life, ultimately meaning you play that character for less time
>makes the game better?

It's really no different than the fact that ANY character (or NPC) can kill you, taking 1/3 or your con, and bringing you closer to con death. I think wither just upsets people because they can pull it off without you dying, and it feels like you've "lost", even if you haven't.

>I have no issue whatsoever with loosing 30 strength but
>shouldnt that be enough. There is a permanant impact on the
>character that cannot be rectified in any way.

Which, again - con loss. Anathema. Drinking a potion and being banned from Battle. Part of the allure (or hate) of CF is that our goal is for you to play - and hopefully embrace- a character. Nothing done in life can ever be "undone". I suspect it's the perceived pack of control that really bothers people, just like people hate being assassinated because once it happens, it feels like you had no control over those choices, but that - just as in reality - is life.


Given the sheer rarity of age death (and lots of those people are into stupid hours old), I remain baffled how people get so upset at "OMG, I lost 40 hours of playtime I COULD HAVE HAD, but I deleted anyways so it never mattered!" If age death even made it's way up to 10% of deaths, maybe then it'd seem useful to look into it for me, but right now we're talking like 5% of less than 1% of all deaths being affected by this.

Also, to the Jhyrbians - yes, you can choose to run from the shamans. Or the murder-transmuter, or the OP bat-adin. Or you can take risks. Or you can split the difference and take controlled risk. The beauty of CF is that it's all up to you, and if it fails - you can always do it again!

Nothing is precious because it lasts forever.

Looks like my supporting reply to this topic was deleted. I
honestly don't know what I've violated, but I'm sorry if
something was wrong/inappropriate.
🤷‍♂️

UPD: I'm dumb. I've replied to the similar comment at the
graveyard forum 🤦🏻‍♂️

Wither removes YEARS from a character, not HOURS.

Because of this, short-lived races (Think orcs, humans, felar, arial)
feel the pain far more than the longer-lived races such as giants and
elves who generally live centuries.

In particular, felar and orcs tend to have lower wisdom, which compounds
the problem, and furthermore orcs also tend to really double down on
damage vs. saves, leaving them often vulnerable to wither. It's
definitely something worth keeping in mind as a low-wis, short-lived
race.

(Yes, I've played an orc that got brutalized by this)

so is the official suggestion to not fight shamans as a felar or orc or risk having it ruin your character?

By "ruin" your character, do you mean "You still delete your character
WAY before age death would hit"? Because in practice, that's how that
goes for 95%+ of orcs.

My official suggestion would be - if you know you're fighting a wither-
happy shaman, make sure you keep your wisdom maxxed and gear for saves.

Pretty much the same suggestion I'd give for fighting a transmuter, who
is more likely to ruin your character via inching you closer to condeath
than a shaman is likely to impact age death on your orc.

In the last 5 years, 5 Orcs have age-died.

One did sub-100 hours due to some specific gear.
The other three lived to 470, 543 and 642 hours (overall above the stated average of 515 hours).
Loqloq lived to 341 as the only exception.

In the last 5 years, 6 Felar have age-died.
All except one lived above the stated average lifespan of 586 hours.
The one (Rakiza) age-died at 150 hours, due to intentionally wearing +age equipment (yet people still assumed wither was responsible).

In other words.. wither is never responsible. Let it go.

Do these stats take into account people who just avoid fighting shamans due to this mechanic? Oh no, they don't. Interesting.

n/t

Say an orc gets hit with 5 aging withers.

How many years does that add total?

If an orc is aged by that many years, how many hours sooner would they die, roughly?

IIRC, orcs seemed to live a little shy of 100 years, but start at 15ish and last little over 500 hours. In a worst-case scenario wither could take 10 years, you're probably losing 50 hours of play. If you're hit by 5 aging withers, based on what I've seen you're talking between 15 and 50 years removed. Let's average that to 25 and say you lose...125 hours. I haven't found an orc being hit by 5 aging withers.

Note: This is all VERY rough guestimates.

On the flip side, I went through QHCF and there's not even a dozen age-death orcs I could find *EVER*. Most of those are the rare orcs that make Chieftain and past the 300ish "barrier" that characters often are deleted. Looks like 1 orc died from a questy effect, Lokloq who wither may have taken SOME, but not enough for me to think it was the only reason he died so early. A 3rd one was really early, but if I recall correctly when that one died, it was a combination of wither and a nice/nasty +age item.

Overall, if 3 characters in 15 years have been hit with it in a manner that actually impacted their character...it's not something I'm really convinced is causing a problem.

In an old thread Daevryn states that it takes a number of years away, so if an orc in general would live, say 90 years, something like 10 full withers could conceivably take 20-30 years away from that? That'd be almost a third of his potential life span.

I fully agree with the others who have been saying for years that this should be removed from wither (or at the very least make it only remove RL hours). Daev said that you need to have very poor saves for it to happen, but it feels like shaman-victim level difference could negate even good saves, when applicable.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=37604&mesg_id=37604

There are items that can cause the same thing, might not all be wither.

A sword did it, but I thought it was necro only.

Are there several others?

Is it super secret or can we name them?

I wouldn't name the thing. But it has caught a number of necros, because thematically people think it could be necro only.

In reality...it used to be undead only, because even though it adds age, undead didnt have an age cap or age die.

That is no longer the case,now undead will age die. either that item was changed to not add age to undead....or it isnt safe to use by ANY PC anymore.

I dont know which is the case, and if I had an undead, I'm not sure I'd be willing to be the guinea pig to test it.