Reading the log on Dio's of Acolytes shrouding/healing battleragers makes me ill. We have toggles for just about everything else, how about a "nocommune" toggle that battleragers are forced to have on? It wouldn't apply to their healer or perhaps other NPCs of course.

Rager: "Hmm, I wonder if there's any Scions attacking the fortress"
... Rager walks to the Fortress, sees an enemy ...
Paladin: "Oh great, that big burly man just attacked the scion who was trying to retrieve. I will give him my sanctuary."

...

Rager's view of fight:
Your slash DOES STUPID AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE to Scion.
Your searing cut DOES STUPID AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE to Scion.
A Scion is Dead!!!
--- a couple ticks go by ---
Your muscles relax as your Rager Crack has left your blood.

...

Rager: "You bad maran, do not aura me."
Paladin: "Oh, I'm sorry."
Rager: "I will kill you now"

...

Rager's view of fight:
You remove a bigass sword.
You remove another bigass sword.
murder paladin
Your punch nicks a paladin.
A paladin flees from combat!

scan n
A paladin is here, twiddling his thumbs waiting for you to leave.

yell Damn you paladin for escaping!!! Don't ever do that again!

te Scion You suck, I killed you easily. See how my brute strength is better than your magicalness?

So far I've seen *one* log about this. Alot of other people say "I see it all the time" or "I've seen this alot" or "I've seen a couple of these"

I don't really see why this is such an issue.

The log in question....

Acolyte healer/paldin.

good/neut villager.?

A Scion raiding the fortress.


villager shows up. I am willing to say that the Acolyte deciding to protect the person who is fighting evil in this case...is not wrong in their decision to grant sanctuary.

I WOULD say the rager did something wrong if he didn't attack the acolyte for it....but the log doesn't show what happened/was said between the villager and the acolyte.


Like I said, I've seen all of *ONE* log, and even if I saw a thousand logs that showed the same thing of that log, I'd say the Acolyte did nothing wrong, and the only iffy thing would be the following actions of the Rager involved.

I *LIKE* the idea of a healer being able to "accidentally" or "not-so-Accidentally" REALLY piss off a Villager in this manner. It seems to me like this could be the basis of some interesting 3-4 way confrontations/interactions

The playerbase doesn't do things like that for role reasons, they do it because they're pressured into by people who have nothing to lose (imms).

hard to argue or have a conversation with someone as jaded as you seem to show yourself in this post I am replying to.

Let me just say that I have, and I've seen more than a few other players, ic, do similar. And I do not believe any of us were "pressured into it by imms with nothing to lose".

Maybe, instead of suggesting hard-coded changes...you might just change the kind of player you hang out with and interact with in cf...and see if that might un-jade you.

Consider buffing up the logging of such events to observe if there's a pattern or not.

100% behind you on that one, I'd like to see more smacking down for things like that.

>Reading the log on Dio's of Acolytes shrouding/healing
>battleragers makes me ill. We have toggles for just about
>everything else, how about a "nocommune" toggle that
>battleragers are forced to have on? It wouldn't apply to their
>healer or perhaps other NPCs of course.

I don't see that as something requiring a hard coded change.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I hope I start seeing some bootings or something.

A war is started between Battle and Maran. Hell yeah, I said Maran, because we can just roll Acolytes into Herald. Hell, just roll Scions into Herald too And bring back Scarab as a cabal. Yeah baby

It is not what healer sanc-ed said rager (Healer is an idiot btw).
Rager can always berate/kill healer latter on.

It is what Fortress & Village turned into such sweet buddies.
They hunt together, defend cabals of each other and generally doing things which are contrary to the philosophy of said cabals.

Like turning blind eye on: Duergar ragers are fighting in/near Fortress, Fortress magi doing the same in village, ganking together, etc.

If you are Empire/Scion, you see such double-teaming ALL THE TIME.
It is about time Imms do something about it.

Regards,

-=NNNick=-

PS If you read Dio's you will see same plea over and over from different people.

I know the Village and Fortress are in love. I just know that there have been a number of occasions where changes have been made to hardcode it so that people can't do things they shouldn't. This is one of those instances, in my mind, where unfortunately RP has to be hardcoded.

One could argue that the villager should attack the maran and keep attacking them until they've died at least once, but they don't and in some instances can't (out of pk range).

At the very least helpful communes such as those commonly given ragers by maran should be spellbaned or something.

99.99% of the time you're seeing coincidence, or just smart players. Marans and Villagers are similar in that they are supposed to hunt their enemies. Not just wait around for them. They share two sets of cabal enemies. What kind of idiot would *not* go check the other cabal (a villager go check the fortress or a maran go check the village) when looking for an enemy? Do you have any idea how many times I was accused with an evil villager of being asked by a fortress person to come? That there was no way I could have known to come to the fortress to kill that scion or empire person unless that acolyte invoker had called me? Plenty. And, obviously, nothing of the sort happened. I knew the fortress had the scepter or codex and so I would routinely check by the fortress. And lots of times I was rewarded by actually - gasp! - finding my enemy there.

The reverse is true when I played my various marans, from Aemelius all the way to Brordaran. "Oh, you would never have known I was fighting the giant unless that little firegiant villager hadn't told you I was here to come fight!" Absurd.

You all like to chalk up your losses to other people doing something they shouldn't. You're wrong. Move on.

I wouldn't care if they come, I'd expect it. Villagers getting sanctuaried/healed is where I gotta draw the line.

Do you seriously think villagers either ask for or accept such things? If the answer is anything but "no" you're on crack.

I've seen it myself several times. I never see any corpses as a result 'cause they're not doing squat about it except maybe grumble as they bash.

All you saw on dios was a healer putting sanc on a rager. You saw nothing else.

As I said in my post above yours, if you think any villager is asking for or happily accepting communes or spells, you're on crack.

Did he grumble or did he attack the healer? If he grumble it's weak because it's a pattern of activity, not an isolated event.

It's like the Salem Witch trials. You come here and make these accusations about villagers and marans (accusations which have been made against my villagers and my marans in the past, which is why it pisses me off so much) about look, it happened! Then when you're showed it didn't happen the way you claim you come back and say well what did he do after? Admitting, in the form of your question, that you don't know jack #### about what's going on or why someone did something or how they reacted.

You just want to assume a problem, probably because you're the guy who died sometime.

The point is, you don't know. But you pretend to know and make accusations and then when it's made clear you're ignorant about it, you just say well, we should presume they did it wrong and punish them.

I say #### to that.

I offered a fix for a perceived problem and you get your balloon-knot all tight. All I'm saying is if it's a problem fix it. If battleragers aren't going to kill maran for protecting them fix it. Put in a nocommune command, like nogive, nosum, etc. and be done with it. Nobody is hurt by it.

>I offered a fix for a perceived problem and you get your
>balloon-knot all tight. All I'm saying is if it's a problem
>fix it. If battleragers aren't going to kill maran for
>protecting them fix it. Put in a nocommune command, like
>nogive, nosum, etc. and be done with it. Nobody is hurt by
>it.

IF IF IF IF
Exactly, you want to put in a command to alienate all roleplay. If a rager is accepting sanc without at leasting complaining that he should be getting kicked from battle, nothing more, nothing less.

You made silly complaints about things that were untrue, and when shown to be untrue you backpedaled and essentially said you want to presume bad behavior and punish beforehand. And in doing so you backhandedly insulted all the people who play these characters.

So back the #### up, buddy.

The argument is not that ragers are asking for sanc.

The argument is not that they're cheating for checking other cabal HQ's for foes.


The argument is that A) They don't leave when sanc'd, or act strongly enough against it to make the priest never do that again (IE, kill them or whatever). And B) Joining another cabal in defending when the cabal you're joining up with has enough defenders is not courage.

So lets recap.

A) Guy casts prayers on you, you don't react strongly enough to make him stop. At least, I'm speaking from my opinion as witnessed in game when I've seen that log happen several times with the same people involved. Once or twice should've been enough. It should've ended there. People should be booted if they can't convince a healer not to heal them.

B) Its fine to hunt your enemy at another cabal, but if there are enough defenders already then you should not jump in, that would be the same thing as ganging them down on eastern road.

Twice on the same assassin and once on a neutral warrior. The only thing that I ever saw happen was the rager leave, which is fine because if they are gone my job is easier, but it'd be nice to know that things are being said to ensure that it will not happen in the future. Maybe this thread will be enough to stop this from happening or maybe not. I am at least glad to see that the imms might start looking into it or logging it more. It'd be nice to see the friendship between these two cabals somewhat diminished. I've never understood the whole "We'll basically turn a blind eye when you kill our duergar if you do the same when we kill your magi" partnerships. Cabals are a way of life as pervasive to the character as their religion and players/characters are casting aside portions of it willy-nilly.

I raid the Fortress with an orc against two Fortress healers. I do a where and I see a duergar battlerager and a cloud battlerager standing south of the Watcher waiting for me to flee or the Watcher to die so that they can involve themselves. That's the kind of thing I've come to expect and, as Restraal once said, it may become necessary to start killing all of those who are likely to come to aid before the actual raid takes place. It seems silly to me to have to kill a duergar before I raid the Fortress, but them's the breaks.

There is a log of a healer communing sanctuary on a villager on Dio's. You use this to make half of your point. This part is true.

The other half of your point is that the Villagers do nothing about it but grumble. This is not shown in the log. We don't know what happened afterwards. Your proof is the statement "I never see any corpses as a result 'cause they're not doing squat about it except maybe grumble as they bash." This is unsubstantiated.

Forgive me if I don't trust the word of Wilhath who has "seen it himself several times." Show me a log of this actually happening. Then I will believe you.

what's wrong with villagers being sanctuaried or healed?
I thought communes were acceptable magic because they asked permission from the gods to use it? Or does this have to do with some weird rager sense of honor?

Splntrd

Alright I have been playing this game for like a decade and I am just plain tired of people flaming village and fortress. First off if any fortress member got caught asking evils to help them defend, directly or indirectly, they won't be in the fortress long, if any villager asks mages directly or indirectly to defenf village they get booted too.

What you are seeing happening is people who have the same enemy... GASP fighting that enemy. If they know where you are they are gonna come after you, and when you know raiding is taking place it means you also know where you are. If you stick around or play fortress or village you know they are not very buddy buddy. HEll its not uncommon for fortress gangs to sit outside the village waiting for evil villagers and for village rangers to set snares outside the fortress. If a cleric or a mage starts casting on a rager you can be sure they did not ask for it and at the least will warn the cleric not to do it again. Obviously they are not gonna turn on the healer right away cause they are still fighting you, after you have died or been run off though is when the fortress and village will turn on each other.

I mean, it's part of the Imperial Law not to deal with Scions, and yet certain sect leaders think nothing at all of calling in Scion help to defend the Palace. Sure, this isn't as overtly BAD as sancing a rager, but at the same time it's also still not kosher. Also certain Tribunals will ignore attacks on good people in town by Imperials, or even duck out of town and into the spire at "convenient" times. Don't make out like the Fort and Village are the only ones doing it. They aren't.