At what level ranges is it **most** difficult to rank on/under the water?

Separate answers for good and evil if you can.

nt

You've been able to use them underwater for ever.

Just need to cast water breathing on them. There are Scrolls and talismans that can do this as well as pc spells.

qol change, all mercs should just be able to go under water. I dont wana have to carry around a bunch of scrolls/tailsmans, stop my ranking to make sure my merc has water breathing. Seems like a reasonable change.

with the h2h and dagger spec mobs. those guys are ridiculous. it's like when some moron decided to change arkham crypts and gave the bottom flood skeletons maces and daggers making it unsuitable for ranking as a lower value alternative to maus or barovia.

bad changes, they do their spec skills way too much

ymmv, but I found the lower-level undead in Arkham to still be very rankable. Especially if you're rocking vuln weapons, and double-especially if you're rocking double-vuln weapons (which, for some builds, are easily available through a quest). Think I used to solo them with flee/hide/knife, vuln weapons, and bartering easily-obtained gear for heals at the Arkham healer.

So given you don't like the coral head mobs, what would you say are the level gaps (good and evil) for water ranking?

Start with weald. Section of Glauruks. Fish on voralias.

Then planar sanctum water plane.

Then kuo toa tunnel guards.

Then Sahuagin scouts.

You could potentially get someone to lead kiadana stormies to water for you too.

There's also the water mob in high lords.

Plus there's a water room in htos.

There's also an area that fills with water near the aryth, where you kill wights etc.

Ktengs has some water.

Organia has an undead in water.

Trothon has water.

Barovia has water.

>Start with weald. Section of Glauruks. Fish on voralias.
>
--Blackwater/Yzigrath swamps can be used a little around these levels too.
>Then planar sanctum water plane.
--This is the biggest as it's available and workable since a water shifter gets their forms because of water spells.
Coral head various fish is nice but more skewed towards evil/neutral and the fish are considered natural creatures, so it stunts outlanders some.
--Some Minotaur in the Coastal Wetlands can be fought around this level up to 35-40ish but the area is not conducive to leveling.
>
>Then kuo toa tunnel guards.
--Parts of the Veran are swamp and water shifters can kill things there but it's also not worth it.
>
>Then Sahuagin scouts.
>
--Sahaugin of all sorts i.e. Coral Head, Waters/Ruins of the deep and various spirits are doable with a proper group but the spirits are considerably tougher than the Sahaugin because their weapons are often illusions or are incredibly hard to disarm. So, evil kinda gets the shaft here too.
>You could potentially get someone to lead kiadana stormies to
>water for you too.
>
--Can also do the ones by the Loch, if you get someone to summon or lead them.
>There's also the water mob in high lords.
>
>Plus there's a water room in htos.
>
>There's also an area that fills with water near the aryth,
>where you kill wights etc.
>
>Ktengs has some water.
>
>Organia has an undead in water.
>
>Trothon has water.
>
>Barovia has water.
>
>
--Maethien has a couple water elementals which can be fought with amphib water majors. But not suitable for ranking.
--Very dangerous but Aboleths can be killed for decent exp as well. Another evil mob though. Some mobs in the Underdark sea could be killed but there are generally easier places to go.

Overall, I'd say this is a pretty in depth range/area breakdown.

If I had to say out of all of them, it'd be 40-50 range for most people and especially evil.

Killing one mob at a time that happens to be in a water room in an otherwise non-water area seems like something that could be improved upon. Ditto super-esoteric places like the water plane, Trothon, etc.

If there are no absolute gaps, can rephrase the question to be: at what level range is ranking a water shifter or mariner ranger the biggest pain in the butt / least efficient.

It's not bad when you get huge exp for the kill. Trothon admittedly is not ideal as you can't easily step out of the area and back in. But others like ktengs are fine since you can use the rest anyway.

I've played my fair share of water shifters - just ask my personal stalker (Umi).

Obviously people do not need a sub level 20 ranking area since T4 are all amphibious, so let's ignore that.

Firstly - evils get the absolute shaft. I always end up ranking my evils on evil mobs because it's faster.

Secondly, as cool as a new ranking area would be (if that is what you are thinking about), I don't think it's necessary. All you need to do is spice up existing water areas to provide people with a legitimate place to rank. There are currently plenty of water/swamp areas but nearly all of them suck.

Aryth can be morphed into an amazing ranking area. Yet it is full to the brim of tough mobs with giant resist (for the most part, shifters can't choose their attack type) that give #### all exp. I'd say open it right up to a broad level range of water shifters.

Similar stories for Dragon Sea and Sea of Despair. They are 100% useless for ranking.

In terms of gaps that should be closed, they are levels 34-40 and 46+. I have absolutely no issue soloing to level 34 in about 10 hours. Then it's a real drag to get high enough to hit Ruins of the Deep. Then ruins of the deep becomes a real drag once you are nearing your second major. Aboleths is not worth the time. Spirits in ruins of the deep are nuts and should either be toned down or given more xp per kill. When you have evil shifters ranking on sahuagin, something is amiss.

If you are considering adding a new area, might I recommend the sea of despair in the past. Allow ranking for evils in the mid-late 30's and 46+ ranges.

This is a good post. Very valid points. I would echo that especially as evil its a tough go and that 34-40 is a pain. Ruins of the deep sanguin are the goto 42+ though, because the spirits for evils are generally too difficult to deal with.

They give loads of experience even for evils. I consider them perfectly good ranking material.

Or you can fight the grey spirits and make sure to always sacrifice swords, if you are grouped.

nf

Not to digress from the original post but this idea could tie into, is a way that you could adjust an areas xp output - not just the mobs individually. So Aryth ocean which could use some love in the mob dependent, could get a bonus because it's right in the path of everyone, so that risk=bonus xp. But other areas could see some similar love like ugruks comes to mind.

Now one important thought I'd want to put forward is that this shouldn't be all about water shifters and Mariners from their point of view. It should be areas that appeal to all but can serve as areas in which a water shifter or Mariner could find pk prey too.

I've wanted to do a true Mariner for some time but your only real hope of catching most anyone is a quick pass across the Aryth... Not a lot of hero levels where you'll get to find anyone spending long periods of time in a water region

Mariner is fine.

Firstly you can rank in any wilderness, not just water.

You can also pk effectively in any wilderness.

Your pk will tend to involve finding people near or in water (eg kiadana) and then getting them as they cross if they are not already in it. But you can pk half decently in any wilds.

There's a significant difference. Rangers don't have much to keep people from getting away, so combine that with entangle only working in/on water, I'm not sure what kind of pk you think takes place anywhere. They suffer decent creeping too, and I'm not including an ambush skill kill.

But I guess we just disagree

>Secondly, as cool as a new ranking area would be (if that is
>what you are thinking about), I don't think it's necessary.
>All you need to do is spice up existing water areas...

This is a "spice up" project. Just need to know what level the mobs need to be to fill in the "gaps" in water ranking. Thanks for the input! I may or may not be able to oblige, but I'll try. Wouldn't make sense for the mobs I'm planning to make to be 46+.

Because if it is easy to solo a water major through all ranks you will have a lot of electric eels at relatively low rank.

Which is unbalanced.

Would be a nice touch to make it where many of the mobs in water aren't immune to water elementals, which are the only ones that can be taken under water without making them mad. Maybe a tweak to their damage type in water vs land or something.

I would say earlier ranks are harder. Once you get up to the point where you can rank in coral head (mid-upper twenties on the fight outside if I recall, low-mid thirties on the sahuagin in the head.) you can usually ride it out to upper 30s. If you're a water shifter or a mariner ranger, by then you can pick apart sahuagin scouts if you're careful. There's also a couple of niche areas with water elementals throughout this level range to help spell yo.

So I'd say high teens - low twenties.

I'd also argue it's a bit harder to rank an evil, because the only sustainable/decent water ranking that I can think of on goodie mobs is spirits. I know storm giants roam aryth or whatever, but I don't consider that sustainable for a few different reasons.

Furthermore I think the addition of ANY level range for water ranking would be cool, because choice is so limited.

Disclaimer: I haven't played a water major or mariner in a hot minute so this is all recollection based and when I happen to group up with them.

Thanks for the input! I'm working on an addition to an existing area and wanted to know what level to make my mobs. They'll either be on or in the water and, in theory, decent for ranking. Idea is to cover both good & evil.

make sure they give edge points on death too.