Is the requirement for this 2000 role xp? I know it was changed awhile back but can't seem to find the post.

Thanks.

1k Imm XP at 42+ or 3k Imm XP below 42. That was lowered in 2014 from 2k and 5k respectively. No Role XP requirement at all.

Thanks for the heads up.

The IMM XP requirement, in today's terms, for DV was 0 because role XP was counted as IMM XP. So, you could get 0 IMM XP and get DV with enough role entries. Today, you have to get 1K straight-up IMM XP.

This is the main reason I stopped rolling thieves and perhaps why, last time I checked, only one city had a kingpin.

NT

NT

Since I thought you were an Imm trying to make CF more accessible by reducing the gap between newbies and veterans... isn't why you changed the Edges XP system for?

I suppose you understand making Devious Versatility Imm XP related over Role XP favor veterans over newbies?

But maybe I'm wrong by assuming what Saagkri said is true in his post:
The IMM XP requirement, in today's terms, for DV was 0 because role XP was counted as IMM XP. So, you could get 0 IMM XP and get DV with enough role entries. Today, you have to get 1K straight-up IMM XP.

Really, I'm curious to know the logic behind this change because it doesn't make sense with reducing the gap between newbies and vets...

Warning: this may seem a little cynical as a former serial thief with about 1700 hrs on my last 4.

The theory goes that with DV or DVx2 one could make a thief that can kill by command denial (that you can't thwart with a potion of flight) or is overpowered in some other way. At least that's what an IMM said once. So, I assume that only certain characters (ones who amass enough IMM XP) can be so overpowered.

The problem I have with this rationale is that sure, maybe a very particular build path can achieve something very nasty (though I have yet to see it), you are probably not very powerful until you get that final skill(s). And, if you're a thief that isn't building this specific super-thief, you need all the help you can get.

All my thieves were thugs. All caballed, two leader spots, one age died and got gechoes. I think one got 1K pure IMM exp. Two had DV. One could have taken DVx2 but didn't. With DV on one I took advanced lockpick and on the other shadow disappear and maybe improved hide.

Point being unless your build is specifically designed to need DV to be uber, it's not that big of an advantage. Sure, I'd like to have acrobatics, cheapshot and third attack, but that means I don't have one of them until I get the EP for DV and that's a long damn wait. That's also not an "uber-thief".

Thieves are the red-headed stepchild of classes. I love the path system, but since they have been nerfed in several skills and left broken in others.

DV should require no IMM or role XP IMHO. If some skill path with DV is so overpowered, then block that specific path instead of penalizing every thief that doesn't take that path especially when they are among the weakest classes in the game.

That said, thugs at mid-level are not weak, but DV has nothing to do with it. Ramble over.

Thieves are all on the premium graveyard: Gergan, Heaghul, Tummel, Ild