Ok, it's no secret that names are my pet peeve, and always have been. I'll freely admit that I'm more touchy about names than most people. However, that doesn't mean that I'm wrong when I say the last few months have seen an influx of REALLY bad names slipping through the cracks. Whats the deal with this?

I know I pray about them. From the posts on Dio's I know other people pray about them as well. Why aren't more bad names being denied? I'm not even talking about just dumb names, but curses in other languages, mispellings of common words, and the like. Hell, one of the names I've seen recently is a common everyday word that I use frequently just in conversation.

You guys have been saying one reason you don't like changing names is because if the character is a newbie, it affects their first impressions of the game if they can't use their beloved D&D or whatever character's name in CF. You're worried about newbies leaving CF because some imm pulls them into the ROTD and says "Listen pal, about your name..." well, thats nothing compared to the disturbing trend thats popped up in the last few weeks.

Some players (not me, though I can't say I haven't been tempted) are multi-killing, full-looting, generally making CF life miserable for characters with these kinds of names. THAT is a much bigger problem and is going to scare away LOT more newbies than a simple "We gotta change your name, friend."

I don't condone the behavior, because its certainly not good for the game, but I can see where these players are coming from.

Some players (not me, though I can't say I haven't been tempted) are multi-killing, full-looting, generally making CF life miserable for characters with these kinds of names. THAT is a much bigger problem and is going to scare away LOT more newbies than a simple "We gotta change your name, friend."

These players tend to be the same sad assholes who do this sort of thing anyway. The name issue is a thin excuse for the behavior. It's not culturally correct for them to just admit on public forums that they multi-bash newbies, because everyone would just let them know what sad assholes they are. But now they have a thin story to excuse the bullying!

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

but some of the players who are doing this are actual vets who aren't known for bullying people, and have in fact been known to be pretty helpful. I think the current trend in bad names may just be causing more resentment, and in a wider circle than you guys seem to think.

Of course I could be wrong, and these formerly helpful people could have been closet rage cases just waiting to happen. I'm just saying it's something to maybe consider. Whatever else you may think, I do believe this thread has proven it's not just one or two people who are feeling this way.

I try to stay pretty much out of these conversations, hence
you don't see me post very often. But this topic has gotten
to the point where I must speak up.

If someone's borderline bad name, on a text based game
has you going THIS nuts.. you need help. Seriously.
Seek some.

Go outside. Take a walk. The cold fresh air will do you some
good.

We really do the best we can, with the resources available to
keep names to a certain standard. We take asking someone to
change their name very seriously. Also bear in mind, not all
Imms have access to the command to rename AND there also may
be periods of time (read: the hour or two it takes to get to
level 15) when no Imms are even present.

Also, let me add:

If you a multi-kill a newbie, for any reason, you are just
pathetic and sad. Thought I'd clear that up, in case anyone
wasn't sure.

Nuff said on the topic, as I won't be responding any further
to this thread. Good luck with the therapy.


Grurk

Or VLADS rage or anyone thats been playing a while,
I THOUGHT the thread was about NEWbies making names that are considered unacceptable by a large portion of the playerbase
I don't really care much about names I might pray about those that stand out to me but, I'm not one to go out and multikill anyone, *less they just keep coming back for more*
HOWEVER the point is there are alot of sad sacks in the world, and sadly alot of them play cf, now I really don't care how sad they are but, I'm sure the newbies who have NO freakin clue where market square is muchless what is a acceptable name, do care that these sad sacks multi-kill them.
So in a rational manner, I'd like to say.
PLEASE do something about some of the more ridiculous names, especially if it does happen to be a NEWBIE, they need your protection! I mean who's going to powerrank me, and give me targets if these "sad sacks" continue to run off our player base for what seem to be unacceptable names.
Just my 2. cents

I said some people were doing it. I didn't say I was. My characters all rank too fast to do the whole multi-killing newbies thing anyway, even if I were inclined to do it.

I posted that some people were doing it to highlight that it is an issue that could have newbies deleting, moreso than a gentle "Hey, you know your names not exactly spiffy" from an imm early on would. I thought my post was pretty middle of the fence, and don't know where you got the impression that I was raging at all.

I mean, not that I expected you to actually read the post before replying or anything.

Every imm response I've seen seems to make it as if the people with complains are complaining about obscure references pulled from a fantasy novel that sold 18 copies in 1962 but the truth of the matter is...

We get pissed off because its not obscure.

Jimmy or whatever is not obscure. Its irritating and I can't think of a reason for wanting to name your character Johny besides to piss other players off.

I'd say this kind of thing accounts for maybe 2% of name complaints. Seriously. In my experience the vast, vast majority are complaints about obscure references or anal nitpicking such as "Blayne" is just another spelling of "blain" which is a canker sore! Wahhh!"

As for the common ones, I'm not crazy about them either, but a sort of consensus a while back was that legitimate, classic names should be allowed (such as William or Hannah), as they are not so much "unoriginal" as just "generic", and falls back on our old, original rule of "Choose a name that a mother would legitimately name her child in a fantasy environment of some kind."

The diminuitives are annoying, but really, there are very few characters that have chosen such names.

I've prayed several times about a particular 11th ranked bard with a MAJOR brand name and I still see his ass wandering around. I mean, anybody who lives in America and has ever used a permanent marker HAS to know this is a brand name. I'm about to roll up a character just to con kill his ass.

All the other imms posting have at least been civil, but you continue to belittle the people praying about names with your snide "wahh" and *whine* comments.
You also continually say that its a minority who care about these names, look at how many people have posted in this thread, and ALL of them veterans. Your loyal patrons are the ones complaining this time, not some green newbie who hasn't played a character over level 20 and is trying to preach about game balance. Just because people realize praying about names doesn't have the same affect it used too doesn't mean they don't have a problem with names being allowed these days.

I don't like the common names things, but fine, I guess I can handle a human named William if thats what you guys decided, but a fire giant named William? Not so much.

But other then that all were asking is for the name rules to be enforced like they used to be, or change the rules. Either would make me happy, and probably the others too.

Then I am proud to report I compose less than 2% of name prayers . I don't even mind James or John or Jonathan, I only mind when they aren't human/half (IE, an elf named Robert) or when its abbreviated. In years past shortened names or nicknames were disallowed because they were considered slang, so you'd never see a guy named Jimmy. Thats how I liked it, personally. I don't have a problem with Constance, for instance, because its a solid good human name even if its not unique.

I take it you get my meaning though, there's a reason I've never had a name hate post til this last month . I'd like to think I'm not anal retentive about it, just certain ones irritate me.

I don't know exactly what it is, but one the things that really gets under my skin in regards to names is when someone uses a name that was used previously and adds one more letter to it or changes it ever so slightly so that the name when said out loud is the exact same as the other chars name.

For example:

At the moment there is a char named Drahke, granted I know little about this char, but this name gets under my skin because Drahk, the Battlerager was a char that I got on really well with.

Seeing as how Drahke can go on does that also mean I can roll Blitzenturte? Glitzenturt? Amaranthee? What about Shokaie?

I hope this didn't come off as a whine or anything similar, I really do want to know what the feelings are towards names like these.


Blobqirt

Since even in real life we have Amy, Aimee, Aimee, etc etc. We have multiple spellings of names every day. You'll notice an upswing in names from people based on culture, region, and ethnicity. It's just not uncommon.

But what about seeing a dwarf called Blitzenturte, an arial called Blitzanturt as well as an elf called Blitzenturtt all logged in at once?

Blobqirt

There were four Dougs all working the same place, out of a staff of like 25 people. It happens. Unless the characters are doing something bad role wise, which would be another matter entirely, I don't really have much problem with similar names.

Afterall, a Boobert by any other name, is still a noob who dies a whole lot.

I don't want to interfere in what is probably a lucrative
career for your therapist, but you might feel better if you
just sat down, wrote out what you think the naming rules
ought to be, and submitted your suggestions by e-mail.

imps@carrionfields.com is probably a good place to start.

Do not submit any background check stuff for Imms, just the
exact text for naming rules the players should live with.

Thanks.
Qaledus

I'd be happy, and I'm fairly sure Vlad would be too, to leave the rules as they stand, but the problem is, as they are the enforcement is arbirtrary, some names against the rules are changed, others are left to stand.

What rules would the imms collectively be willing to enforce 100% of the time? Write those down, and you have your answer.

You'd be hard-pressed to come up with such a set of rules, because no matter which way you slice it, there's subjectivity involved.

Even if you leave the rules as they stand and said "Ok, we're going to crack down!", it would be impossible for the staff to enforce it 100% of the time, for the sole reason that the staff is not omniscient.

Even collectively, we do not know every word in the dictionary, every character that appears in every book, movie, or video game ever written, every word in every other language on the planet, every acronym, etc. That's even collectively, and at any given time, you may have an average of 1-2 imms online and attentive enough to attend to name violations. And often, none.

And the crux of it is, a name change is a *major* thing for a higher level, or even mid-level, character. Not only does it dismantle his network of allies and contacts, it wipes the slate clean of reptutation from his enemies, or others he has screwed over ICly. Not a good thing.

So if a name has gone unnoticed, we have to start looking at things with a bit more lenience and consideration for how things might affect that person's gameplay, as well as the gameplay of his allies and enemies.

And when you exhibit lenience towards some, you soon find people expect you to extend that lenience to all.

<whiney voice> "But SO-AND-SO has a name that is from the same obscure book mine is from! Why don't you make HIM change his name?!"

It's not just "blah, make the rules and then enforce them without flaw or exception." It's just not that easy.

How about if you guys just enforce the name rules you already have down? I'd be just fine with that.

I wasn't trying to be a #### when I made the original post, but it's just not productive to have rules, then not enforcing them, or whats even worse is arbitrary enforcement. This is what causes complaints and bad feelings.

Basically, if you guys want more lax naming rules, then change them. If not, then enforce the ones you already have. I don't think asking for a little consistency warrants being accused of needing a therapist.

Two-thirds clinical opinion.

>How about if you guys just enforce the name rules you already
>have down? I'd be just fine with that.

We do enforce the rules.

Because we don't have an objective IF statement covering all
knowledge in all languages that evolves in real time, we're
going to have to stick with personal judgment which is
specifically written into help naming as a caveat. The 'rules'
as written are by their very definition arbitrary.

You have the option to take a bigger part in that process by
supplying some suggested text, because there does seem to be
a disparity between what we're enforcing and what you think
we should be enforcing. If you're unwilling or unable to
try and supply that text, then I do recommend acceptance
of reality over an ongoing denial of it.

See my above response to Theerkla which answers this question.

In turn, read my post about changing the firm wording of the rules then.

I'd be 100% ok with old policy of simply "no lame names". But that's just me, and admittedly just as much if not more of the playerbase cries foul at a name policy that is 100% subjective.

As it stands now, the name rules are...

Carrion Fields requires Player Character names that are compatible with a
fantasy roleplay environment. The idea is to create an atmosphere that is
free of outside references, and the questions you were asked upon character
generation are intended to guide you in this aspect. Specifically, we do not
allow words from the dictionary ("Killer") or slight variations on them
("Killa"), including slang. Combinations of words ("OrcKiller") are also
forbidden for the same reason. Also, we ask that you do not take names from
historical sources or published works ("Stalin", "Beowulf").

Final judgement is at the discretion of the Immortal staff, and may result
in deletion of the character. Take a few moments to think about your name
before deciding on one during character generation.

*******

As things stand now, this just isn't how things work. If you really want me to rewrite what *I* feel are sensible naming rules that would cause a lot less headache.... (If the spacing is ####ed forgive me, my wordpad is doing funky things with spaces from copy/pasted text)

********

Carrion Fields requires Player Character names that are compatible with a
fantasy roleplay environment. The idea is to create an atmosphere that is
free of outside references, and the questions you were asked upon character
generation are intended to guide you in this aspect. Specifically, we do not
encourage words from the dictionary ("Killer") or slight variations on them
("Killa"), including slang. If a common word from the dictionary is used, we
ask that it be something someone would actually name their child (Rose, Heather,
etc).

Please remember this is a roleplaying enviornment, and names are important to
creating the proper atmosphere. Combinations of words are also
discouraged for the same reason. Please use common sense. A name like Silvermoon
(While not appropriate due to the later named fictional character reference) would
be an otherwise acceptable name for a barbarian type character. Names like
Orckiller however will not be acceptable. Again, please use common sense when
choosing your name. Also, we ask that you do not take pupular names from historical
sources or published works ("Stalin", "Beowulf").

Also please bear in mind racial tendencies before choosing a name. Names like
Bob for a high elf, or Steve the Orc do not conform to the roleplaying enviornment
we encourage here at Carrion Fields. Equally important is that your name LOOk like
a name. While Gbhrtzzt may technically conform to our naming policies, it does not
conform to the spirit they were written in.


Final judgement is at the discretion of the Immortal staff, and may result
in deletion of the character. Take a few moments to think about your name
before deciding on one during character generation. Above all use your common
sense in choosing a name, and enjoy your stay in the Carrion Fields.

I think this rewrite loosens things up enough for the comfort of the immortals to not have to answer for every little name thats bugging one guy. As the rules are written now, words like "forbidden" are what cause complaints. The looser text of this rewrite, as well as the addressing of several of the more common pet peeves (from both players and imms) may help ease complaints from both sides.

In this paragraph right here:

>Final judgement is at the discretion of the Immortal staff, . . .

I think your concerns would best be addressed if you rephrased that as:

"Final judgement is at the discretion of Vladamir". The IMMs could have your IMaccount on hand to quickly address suspect names for your review and approval.

See, I actually take the time to write up something constructive, and all you can do is act like some little prick. Thats cool, but I can understand why you're bitter, since you're impotent on these forums and can't carry out your sad little vendetta and ban me from here like on Dios.

Say what you like. I've never once expected everything to be done my way. All I have ever asked for was a level playing field, and consistent treatment of everyone. I don't want anything more than anyone else gets. I don't ask for any special treatment.

Moderator's Note: I'm carrying out my own sad little vendetta and snipping the last part. No flaming, kids!

n/t

I'll forward it along and we'll see what shakes out.

Thanks.
Qaledus

>As it stands now, the name rules are...
>
>Carrion Fields requires Player Character names that are
>compatible with a
>fantasy roleplay environment.

That statement from the official helpfile is far too vague. I agree with you in our dislike of seeing names like Mikey or Joey or Dave because in MY OPINION they aren't compatible with a fantasy roleplay environment. I am of the school of Tolkein and Robert Jordan type names. Names that are made up yet still have that medieval/fantasy twang to them. HOWEVER, George R.R. Martin (my new favorite fantasy writer) has a very significant character who's name is Jon and another character who's name is Eddard but people refer to him as Ned. No one can deny that Martin does a bang up job depicting a fantasy realm yet those two names are very unfantasy like. And of course there is Salvatore (who I dont really like) who has a character named Regis...ok that is a dumb name in real life AND in fantasy but it's in a fantasy series nonetheless.

Basically I think the problem is that the helpfile allows names that you and I dislike to be "legal" names because they could feasibly fit in someone else's opinion of what is a fantasy style name.

Of course there are people who name their char "Johnny" just to be asshats and piss off people who are fond of the madeup names and they should be shot and maimed.

The problem with the way the helpfile is written now is, it has very specific guidelines for the bulk of the file. Such and such is forbidden, such and such is required, etc etc. Then you get to that last paragraph and it invalidates the whole file before it. You CAN'T have such firm language for a rule, and then follow it up with "Oh by the way, this only applies if we feel like it".

If the text for the rules, thus the rules themselves, were looser, I could live with it. I have also seen some of the better roleplayed people IC have long names, and then told people to call them by nicknames. (Props to Whil ) I can live with that too. We just shouldn't have such firm text and then loose enforcement.

imps@carrionfields.com is probably a good place to start.

Thanks, Q.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

He may have been a dawnie, but he had a mean streak a mile wide. He was forever saying to me "I don't think Vyn has seen your cookie" and so I'd take that goddamned cookie and harass Vyn with the whole story every time.

On a side note, since he asked for actual suggested rewrites, I wouldn't have been off the wall with it either. I'm really not some unreasonable crackpot who wants things done his way. I really don't go around asking for things other people don't get. I don't ask for special treatment. All I've ever asked for (and was serious about) was the same treatment for everyone, equally. Do I get pissed off sometimes? You're damn right I do. but when I spend days looking through baby books, and pick a really good name and get denied, then see someone running around with a name thats just blatantly against the rules it sets me off.

My posts may not always be the most constructive, or even the most productive to getting my point heard, but even you have to admit I'm not asking or expecting anything for myself that I don't think is fair. As much as I may piss you off on the forums, I have always played by the rules. I don't cheat. I don't break my roleplay, and I generally try to give something back to the game with each character with my roleplay. When possible I work to help show newer players things they may not have known about the game and things they can enjoy in it.

Ego aside, I've also tried fairly hard in the last year or so to be a little less over the top on my posts here in an effort to smooth things over between me and the staff. Admittedly I may have given you guys more attitude than was warranted at times, but if I didn't genuinely feel I had justification for a complaint, I wouldn't bother opening my mouth and making things harder for myself here. I also conversely think there's maybe a little (or even a lot in some cases) more rancor directed towards me than is really warranted by my IC conduct.

A friend of mine recently applied to heroimm. I was told this person was specifically asked about me by one of the interviewing immortals. I really think that was a bit over the top, considering my lack of IC punishments for anything other than Gargarghs warcry. It also showed that the things we say and do outside of the game CAN and DO effect IC events. Perhaps I should settle down a little in my opinions of the staff, but that maybe goes both ways as well. I never gave any IC justification for that question to even be asked, and yet it was. I may be hot headed at some of the staff, but again I think that goes both ways.

If I get the impression that an immortal is actually open to suggestions, and not going to dismiss them just based on who makes them then I tend to work a lot harder to be respectful to that imm and give them constructive things. If I go into a situation figuring "This persons not going to listen to me no matter how valid what I say may be" then can you really blame me for having a chip on my shoulder at the time?

>Ego aside, I've also tried fairly hard in the last year or so
>to be a little less over the top on my posts here in an effort
>to smooth things over between me and the staff. Admittedly I
>may have given you guys more attitude than was warranted at
>times, but if I didn't genuinely feel I had justification for
>a complaint, I wouldn't bother opening my mouth and making
>things harder for myself here. I also conversely think there's
>maybe a little (or even a lot in some cases) more rancor
>directed towards me than is really warranted by my IC conduct.
>

In the past I have often not cared about what you had to post because it came off rather harsh and accusatory. However, this little passage of yours takes a bit of balls to write. I think all of us in an online community could do something of the same and just step back every once in awhile and cool off and think levelly. Just because we are faceless peers doesn't give us the right to just blast each other so blatantly. All of us, Imms included, need to remember that we are all dealing with people who have feelings and identities and that half the stuff we say we probably wouldn't say to someone face to face because it's just plain mean.

Well that's all.
Dave
(the guy who will now reread every post he makes before posting it and then think about it for a couple seconds to make sure I dont come across as a disrepectful asshound.)

More that Mr. Q., being a crafty and wise member of the staff, could have volunteered himself as the clearinghouse for these ideas, since he knows we'll just paste them somewhere where all the imms can see it. But noooooo, more mail for Valg.

However, Mr. Q. is spared any and all Valg-wrath because he volunteered for a very boring but needed area task (*) this week (**).

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

(*): Also a separate, niftier, and needed one, which is more treasure-type items (think peridots) in newbie areas starting next reboot, to create ways for clever lowbies to generate funds and barter bait. Yay, Team Economy.

(**): Every week, really. He's an anonymous behind-the-scenes workhorse!

(*): Also a separate, niftier, and needed one, which is more treasure-type items (think peridots) in newbie areas starting next reboot, to create ways for clever lowbies to generate funds and barter bait. Yay, Team Economy.

I think maybe treasure type shopkeepers should be able to buy multiples of the same type of thing, perhaps for a lesser price based on how many they already have. I know when I walk into a jewelery store (in my case it may not be diamonds and gold rings, but silver body piercing hoops and posts) I usually see many of the same item displayed, particularly if the item is inexpensive. The more expensive items are the ones I see fewer of.

The reason you'll see variations in the reaction to names has a great deal to do with the attitude of the imms that happen to be active at any given time. Even with our "rules", our name policy is very much a subjective thing.

I will shamelessly admit that I am one of the most lax people on staff when it comes to names. I also consider myself one of the most intensely roleplaying-oriented people on staff. I do not see these things as mutually exclusive.

To me, the spirit of the name policy is to prevent names that are aggressively disruptive to the environment. My attitude is just because I, or someone else, doesn't *like* a name, doesn't mean I'm going to change it.

Many players are attached to their names, some for very solid roleplaying reasons. Some are new players coming in with a name from a beloved character from their fairly serious pen-and-paper roleplaying game. Some develop strong backstories based around their name. Some just like the name, and have every intention of seriously trying to play the game with a roleplaying spirit.

So for me to come in and say the name isn't "good enough" for CF is just, IMO, a slap in the face to someone who may be trying CF out for the first time.

In a nutshell, if I'm going to change someone's name, I'm going to have a *damned* good reason. That's my philosophy. It's going to be offensive or terribly out of place or the name of some majorly known fantasy character such as Gandalf.

And to me, a damned good reason doesn't include "this name is the name of some inconsequential minor character in a third-rate fantasy book I read once" or "this name means 'breast' in Tagalog", or "Leif sounds like 'leaf' so it's a word!". I just don't care to take my type to pull someone aside over such an utterly trivial matter, possibly putting a kink in their character concept in the process.

This is doubly true of characters who have gotten up in levels without having a name change.. characters who have developed relationships and friends. To be fair, there are also character names I might change if they were level 1, but it's certainly not severe enough of a transgression to warrant a rename at level 40. There's not *always* imms around when a low level with a questionable name is around, even when people are praying.

But again, I emphasize that I am only speaking for myself, personally. Your mileage may vary with different imms.

If I had my druthers, we'd revamp the name policy altogether. Plenty of solid, respected authors have written fantasy stories or other fiction in which perfectly acceptable characters have been given names that many CF players would whine about incessantly. Go through a baby name book, and you'll find plenty of names of real human beings that many CF players would whine about incessantly. I *hate* that our "rules" eliminate the possibility of characters having names like Ivy, Scarlet, or Brooks - or heck, even a name like Moonsong or Silverwind for a barbarian-type character. I miss the days of just the plain and simple "no lame names" policy.

Honestly, I think some of the "legitimate" names people do come up with are terribly pretentious mouthfuls. Not to suggest I'd change such a name either, but just because a name comes up with 0 hits on Google doesn't make it an appealing name, in my opnion. Letters and sounds clump together in certain patterns naturally because they sound nice, and chances are, any reasonable clump of letters you stick together is going to have some vague reference to something, somewhere, so if you get *too* anal about it, and start eliminating names that "sound like", "are similar to", or "randomly mean something in a random other language", you end up renaming everyone with any reasonable-sounding name whatsoever until all you are left with are these god-awful unpronouncable monstrosities.

Anyways, that's the end of my rant on the subject. Again, this is a subjective matter and results will vary from imm to imm on this matter. It's not something we have 100% unity on either.

But my suggestion to you would be, unless Gandalf or Dildo are running around, don't worry about it. It really doesn't affect you that much. As much as you may like *your* name, it may annoy the bejesus out of someone else for other reasons you can't fathom.

Just because the name doesn't ruin the enviroment for you, doesn't mean it doesn't for other people. just because you personally don't reconize the name doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase doesn't either. There are several names right now that every time I see I think "Oh come ####ing on.." But damned if I'm ever going to pray about one again.

If some of these names actually "ruin" the environment to you, I'd say you are far, far too sensitive.

And there are plenty of names that annoy me or irritate me, but I don't see that alone as reason to change it.

I have seen characters with the same names as the names of literature characters or historical figures, but I have to acknowledge that just because *I* am familiar with that name, doesn't mean most other people are.

Some names that have bugged the bejesus out of me include:

- A highly successful character in both PK and RP whose name was that of a famous opera composer in Europe. I did an entire project on this composer for an entire quarter in college. However, as much as it bugs *me* because of my familiarity, I would be highly arrogant and self-centered to start whining to this person about their name. I presume it was 100% coincidental, especially considering this character was not remotely anything resembling a bard. I let it go.. and lo and behold, I got over it. If I had tried to rename this guy and it happened to annoy him to the point of not playing the character (which happens *often* when you do a rename, especially something like that), the MUD would have missed out on a good, contributing player. And if you think this seems like an obscure example, this is exactly the nature of some of the name complaints I have seen.

- A character with the name of a very large and well-known city in the area I live - a city in which I used to work. I live in Southern California, so even though it's not exactly LA, it's a highly populated city, more populated than most other big cities or state capitals. Yet at the same time, even though it annoyed me, I have to acknowledge that most of the rest of the country is not familiar with the city, and even if they were, it's still sounds like a decent name that someone might randomly choose.

- Names like William and Robert annoy me unless they are on a human character. But, oh well. I've also seen dwarven-sounding names on elves that annoy the bejesus out of me, and elven-sounding names on duergar that annoy the bejesus out of me. I have seen names that irritate me to no end because they have too few vowels or are otherwise unpronouncable. I have to acknowledge it would be insane to micro-manage names to that degree.


And I really think the "majority of the playerbase" doesn't care unless the name is particularly atrocious. Just a loud and vocal minority. 99% of the time when there are complaints about a name, it's from a single person, unless the name is bad enough that we'd change it anyways.

And while I'm sure you've made every attempt to have your names be perfectly unique, don't be so arrogant to presume that the names you have chosen have never irritated other people. Just because *you* don't think it's irritating, doesn't mean that other players havn't found a reason to whine about it.

I'm of course not talking about name like... well, not long ago there was a guy with a name that meant a volcanic crater. I caught it and said "Well thats clever, I doubt many other people will get that one!."
I'm talking about well, like you said. Some elf named Joe, or characters with the exact same name, or one letter off of major fantasy/video game/historical characters. I can think of two or three of them right now. Maybe I am too sensetive, but when I see (making these one up) Kefka or Napoleon walking around in Galadon it certainly detracts from my "intense roleplay experience" or however you bill it in the CF advertisements.
I'm sorry, but I somehow can't believe someone naming their character one letter off the main character in final fantasy eight or some teacher in harry potter didn't do it on purpose.

Edit: P.S: Maybe the majority of the playerbase doesn't pray about names because they wern't around when the name rules were, you know, actually enforced? Or maybe they just...I don't know, don't want to get smited? Or maybe they're tired of having prayed about names, being treated rudely or just ignored and have just given up caring?

But I've had perfectly legit names changed or the characters just denied. I've had names I spent time researching in baby books turned down, because someone (I'm going to assume Sacer here, since it was an incredibly obscure name from the bible) took hombrage to it. When I have a character with a real name being booted, that I took the time to build a role for, and took the time to build a backstory for, just because someone recognizes it as a name from the bible that was used ONE time in one of the litany of so and so begat so and so, then yes it's going to bug the #### out of me when I see somebody running around with a name like Phil, or Steve or Bob.

I'd heartily agree that some naming rules need to be revamped, but the point remains, people are asked questions at creation. Many of the names being used violate those rules. People KNOW when they create, that they are breaking the naming rules. I'm really not too concerned with a slap to the face as it were, of someone who can't follow the very first questions asked by the mud.

It's not complicated. They answered the questions asked and didn't answer truthfully. I have zero problems with those kinds of players being offended and possibly run off. If the name rules are changed, then fine, but as they are now, a lot of the names as of late are bad, and until the name rules are changed they will continue to BE bad names. And older players who suffered through overly strict imms with a name-on for them will continue to get pissed off, and possibly take it out IC on these people, which will then scare them off anyway.

If you pull someone aside for a bad name, one of the first things out of their mouth (figuratively) will be why make me change my name when is running around?

I've had perfectly fine names changed, because someone had a hair up their ass over it. If the name rules are made more lax then let them be redone.

I'm really not too concerned with a slap to the face as it were, of someone who can't follow the very first questions asked by the mud.


We are.

I have zero problems with those kinds of players being offended and possibly run off.

We do.

Some people try out a lot of games. When they stop here, there's no loyalty. We haven't earned it. Negative experiences (like being forcibly renamed) in the very early hours have a significant chance of running them off before the name change is even worked out. I'm willing to give them some leeway to get them to notice some of the game's stronger features.

It's also why I have no problem removing the newbie channel from players who give intentionally misleading advice or sarcasm when people ask legitimate questions.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I get upset for exactly the same reasons mentioned above.

My biggest peeves are names like ZZXXTTYYRRGG and Steve and the seemingly increasing numbe of female names appearing.

I had a character named Gryman denied once, rerolled an Derivative of Rohirihm or some such, denied, then popped a who and saw names Like Thror and Pikel.

I felt persecuted but i kept playing and rage deleting all these years but i stuck with the naming rules just the same.

It's a valid point that people that can't follow simple rules need to be corrected. If they are a new player and you let them skate, then you are the ones setting the cultural dynamic of the game.

I don't want new players that have the "It doesn't apply to me" to join us. We have enough twerps as it is who take great glee in ruining other peoples days, why not chase off those people who aren't of the personality that they respect rules and conventions set forth?

The game is a great game and will speak for it's self, correcting a newbie is not such a bad thing.

Transfer them to the realm of the dead Force "help names" Newbie
sayto Newbie Please reread our policy, we welcom you here but this is not something that is up for debate and your name is unacceptable to us.

em ignores newbie rant.

sayto newbie this character is going to be denied but we look forward to your company in your next incarnation.

deny newbie

He either rerolls and carries on, or he doesn't come back. Either way that leaves the staff more time to deal with the gae as it is, and freeing them from "Lame name" spamming, and creates a more enjoyable environment for thse who are dedicated to the realm.

I want us to attract new talent as well, but I also want to know that the older players are being heard as well.

How about a poll on this?

Regards
Pro

> I'm really not too concerned with a slap to the face as
>it were, of someone who can't follow the very first questions
>asked by the mud.
>
>
>We are.
>
>I have zero problems with those kinds of players being
>offended and possibly run off.
>
>We do.

Why? They are already doing something they KNOW they shouldn't do. Are these the kinds of people we are trying to attract?

>Some people try out a lot of games. When they stop here,
>there's no loyalty. We haven't earned it. Negative
>experiences (like being forcibly renamed) in the very early
>hours have a significant chance of running them off before the
>name change is even worked out. I'm willing to give them some
>leeway to get them to notice some of the game's stronger
>features.

Then why even have the name rules in the first place? I'm saying, change them and it's all good. But you're setting rules, then saying "Well, sometimes it's alright to violate this rule". You're setting a dangerous precedent, that it's alright to ignore the rules if you act new.
>
>It's also why I have no problem removing the newbie channel
>from players who give intentionally misleading advice or
>sarcasm when people ask legitimate questions.

I'm not trying to discourage new players by any means. I'm just saying as things are now, you're making rules and then letting people break them. You're going to piss off older players by doing this, people who have paid their dues, stuck with the mud for years in end, and who have (likely) at some point had a perfectly good name denied based on the name rules. You're also showing the newer players "Hey its alright for you to break the rules, because we don't want to upset the noobs".

Is it as bad as say, multicharing? Not at all. but a rule is a rule.


>valguarnera@carrionfields.com

> because someone (I'm going to assume Sacer here, since it was an
> incredibly obscure name from the bible) took hombrage to it.

Although certainly it would be of great use to have another reason to demonize me, I assure you I have not taken umbrage at a name or even suggested renaming someone for a few years now. And unless you chose one of the names of God, or perhaps the name of a prophet, I can't say that I would have even remotely cared.


<edit: I do, however, take umbrage at our use of square brackets for html here>

I'm not pissed about it anymore, so I wasn't trying to demonize you. I just can't think of any other staff member off the top of my head who would have your level of bible trivia knowledge. Didn't mean to step on your toes there.

> Didn't mean to step on your toes there.

That's cool; I assumed more there than I should have. And, personally, I would agree with you that some random name picked out of a geneology should be fair game.

Back when (in my opinion) we were too strict with names, I tried rolling up a character with a Ugaritic name (similar to ancient Hebrew) and got pulled into the Realm of the Dead because the name had too many consonants. Good times.

Peace. =)

Did you identify yourself to the wizi imm (I'm assuming he/she was wizi) when you were in the ROD?

I deleted the character (I was at 0 hours) and talked to them shortly after that about not needing to be quite so strict (I was more interested in evaluating our process than keeping the character).

Gotcha. I take it then it was a lowbie imm who'd done the pulling? Gotta whip 'em into shape somehow.

But I've had perfectly legit names changed or the characters just denied.

Thus me saying "your results will vary". This is a subjective thing.

People KNOW when they create, that they are breaking the naming rules. I'm

No, they don't. Not necessarily anyways. There are countless, literally *countless* names that are going to strike a chord on something else, but that doesn't mean the person that chose the name is familiar with it. Sometimes they just honestly think they are stringing together a nice fantasy name, utterly ignorant that the name was the name of some character in Book 7 of "Thieves World", or means "Rat" in Swahili.

In my job, we deal with naming conventions for various commoditized physicals.

The naming convention for this is known as CUSIPS.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Committee%20on%20Uniform%20Securities%20Identification%20Procedures

When the character Cusip was playing, I would see him on who, and instantly be reminded of work, and I prayed about it. Some Imm told me it was fine, and I was annoyed for about a minute, and then I realized huh, like no one else who plays cf would be annoyed by this name..

Anyways.

"New payment options w/ Iron Realms"

In fact I went OOC and sent him a tell if his brother ISIN was playing. Turned out to be a pretty good char anyways.

In the past I have seen this situation:

-One of the more name-strict imms insists on a name change for something such as this, and then approve a replacement name, assuring the mortal that their new name is acceptable.

-Another name-strict imm logs on, and finds some obscure reference that makes the *new* name unacceptable, and the person gets pulled aside *again* for a name change.

This is the kind of thing that will inevitably happen if you get too strict about it. Needless to say, this is quite annoying and disruptive to the mortal.

Again, this is just my opinion, and my judgement. I for one will not contribute to this kind of situation. It's just not worth my time, and I think it reflects poorly on our MUD.

But short of providing examples, which would get the post removed, it's kind of hard for me to point and say "This is what I am talking about, right here".

One name that really bugs me belongs to a level sitting assassin. When my current hero level character was coming up the ranks, I fought him. He's still pre-20 several months later. To me this screams "lowbie PK char wo was never really supposed to go anywhere".

I admit, there have been some names in the past that bugged the #### out of me that had good, well roleplayed actions and were good for the mud in general. However, not everyone who does so is going to be your wide eyed innocent either. And to be frank, some of the names around right now really are just crap.

nt

"Do not merely practice Art, but penetrate to the very heart of it. For only Art and Science elevate man to the Godhead." Ludwig Van Beethoven

I'm seeing tons of names that would've been changed/denied in a heartbeat a year ago. I'll avoid specific examples but I'll gladly email you a few, I know you'll delete a post with them though. Anyway, its really irritating, can we have this changed back to how it was?

Oh come on that was funny . Party poopers.