I have noticed that a lot of people sit in the mists spamming their skills. Most often this os a duergar, occasionally a fire giant and rarely something else. Usually the duergar/fire giant is the same guy.

I don't get this though. I can master or near master my defenses by the time I am 15 to 20 with nearly any race. Same goes for weapons. By the time I am 30th rank I have mastered or nearly mastered my weapons.

By the time I am 40th I have mastered or nearly mastered the minor skills associated with weapons and all or nearly all of my specs.

I do this with low int races and I do this in groups of 3.

There is litterally no reason for me to waste time skill grinding with anything other than an Invoker. Perhaps here and there I pause for like 15 minutes to boost Wilderness Familiarity to 100 percent as soon as I get it, or if sub 15 I will spam parry, dodge, shield block to 80%. But that is it.

I have taught a few people in the game how to do this but it still seems rampant.

Do you do it because you don't know how or because you just like the grind. (Some folks do).

Keep in mind that I recently lost all of my files for CF (including my "cheat sheet" of directions, items, etc.) so it'll take a bit for me to play once again...

1) I like lowbie pk. Although the incentive is somewhat lacking due to the edge changes, I still like lowbie pk. And if I want to lowbie pk, I want my skills near 90%+. Mechanically (not sure if it's the same with CF, but I imagine if the base code is the same as other similar muds, there's not difference) 90% - 100% is a decreasing level of effectiveness. So I'll get my defenses to 90% and go haywire on lowbies

2) I like taking my time to play my character. The game doesn't start at hero. I don't have any rush to get to hero (if I do, I can get to hero in 20 hours easy - been there, done that). Fleshing out my character, whether through rp or role insertion, is something I find fun.

3) I tend to play solo leveling at low levels. I can level most characters to 40 solo in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe it's the paranoia of playing at other muds where there were a lot of backstabbing ... dunno.

4) Regarding "skill learn", it's a hit and miss. I would rather "skill learn" on things that I don't bother to use all that often but which may be pivotal later on (e.g. scroll and wand). I sometimes do a secret with wands at level 25-30 to get it to 100% (talisman is really really easy to master), but scrolls are kinda a bitch. And, once again, if you play slowly, every skill that increases incrementally based on the level matter.

5) Note that everything you talked about is defense/weapons, and doesn't account for spells/other skills (in case there is an argument about spells/other skills).

6) Getting defenses high enough at low level might not, in the grand scheme of things, let you level up after, but often times it does lend itself to you not resting as much because you get hit less. There are other factors to consider (e.g. where you level, who you level with, whatever). I prefer to be actively doing things and paying attention when I'm playing in the levels where I have good enough gear (30+). Survival matters at that level also, and having near perfect defenses lends itself to survival.

Oh, and if I really want to chase your ass (or anyone else's ass) down at mid level, I'll more than likely annoy the crap out of you and 75% of the time kill you.

You should be maxed or near maxxed by the time you get there.

Which is why I posted a how to guide. Of course the most caustic among us took my post as a personal affront and reacted predictably.

I'm such an evil ranger playing guy that I want to give nothing but misinfo. (Sarcasm)

I don't think anyone took it as a "personal affront" besides you. I read this thread, including Tac's response, and out of anyone you're really the one who over-reacted.

He provided his opinion in a very non-inflammatory way.

That being said, the premise of "next to nothing for hero play" shows that you should have prefaced everything clearly that this is solely with respect to hero play. People play this game for various other non-hero play reason (and for that matter, it is hero pk play that you're talking about rather than anything else).

It's great you posted a how to guide. I disagree with some of it, but it obviously works and has worked for you. I have my own mobs/routine that I go through that works for me. Neither of us are wrong or right. More information is better.

The goal is "playing the game." It's something that a lot of people (including yours truly) sometimes forget. This concept of "the game doesn't start at hero" is only half-truth .. just play the damn game and enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it or you have other priorities, get out. Simple as that.

And just my 2 cents - it's the way you present the information and your defensiveness that elicits most inflammatory comments. This is true in real life.

>The goal is "playing the game." It's something that a lot of
>people (including yours truly) sometimes forget. This concept
>of "the game doesn't start at hero" is only half-truth .. just
>play the damn game and enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it or you
>have other priorities, get out. Simple as that.


This is so true. It's pretty fascinating how MUDs attract some of the most mature and reasonable gamers I have ever met, as well as some of the least so. Increasingly there do not seem to be any of the in-betweens that made up the majority of players back when I first started playing MUDs in the late 90s.

Edited to add: obviously "internet + anonymity = asshole" is a well observed phenomena. But man alive is it obvious around MUDs. Without anonymity, and in the real world, you have to act well enough to get invited back next time. If you #### in your hand and throw it at everyone at the gaming table you are not coming over next Monday . I wish that more people would act well enough to get invited back next time when they log into the MUD.

Silent majority.

And can save me time in the long run. A character with perfected defenses at 15 can rank up faster and rest less over time because they defend better/do more damage/etc.

If there was a mechanic where spending 5 hours brushing my hair with a comb netted me +100hp for the life of the character, I'd bot that hair brushing... not particularly because I'd want to, but because it would be basically required. There is an incentive. Same with spamming skills and solo ranking to get skill ups.

It's all game mechanical incentive with no game mechanical disincentive, so skill spam and hair brushing will be the norm.

You can not rank up faster.

The time you waste doing that has me at 20th rank with maxxed defenses and and some weapons. I have applied to cabals, made frienemies, gathered gear and maybe earned some kills.

By 30th I have maxed most if not all weapons and critical spells. By 35 40 im mo
stly upper 90's and 100's accross the board. And I will be there while you are still spamming.

You have almost no tactical advantage over me because you will never fight me or if you do, and I see I am losing I leave.

With few exceptions your victories will come from my mistakes and you the players skill, not your %'s.

Meaning all the things you say you can do, a character that spams up skills at low ranks can also do, and having perfected skills is an advantage over someone who doesn't have them.

Player skill is such a broad category as to be not useful to talk about. Is my ability to spam efficiently and have straight 100%'s at a lower level than you player skill?

You asked why people do it and then argue they are wrong, but it *does* confer a mechanical advantage and that is the incentive that drives skill spamming. You aren't even arguing against spamming... you just want people to do it in groups and at higher level instead of solo and at low level.

A character with perfected defenses at 15 can rank up faster
If your goal is to rank as quickly as possible, I suspect pausing to spam up defenses is not conducive to that goal. Or, if it is, it's only barely so.

Not all CF time is equal... See botting up an invoker. Yes I'll have hours on a character I wouldn't otherwise have, but I haven't really invested that time actively in the way I would with a ranking group. I just found an out of the way place to bot the skills.

Same with defenses. The time spent perfecting them at 15 is a boon when I'm actively playing them at later ranks. Less time resting while I'm actively sitting at the keyboard trying to do other things is preferable to the time spent letting my defenses perfect while I'm barely paying attention at work.

I don't want to spam defenses. I don't always spam stuff, or even always do defenses. I'd much rather see a system where all skills are given at 100% than the current system where you are incentivized to behave anti-socially for the mechanical advantage it confers, but to say you *shouldn't* spam skills because you can still perfect them is a lot like saying you shouldn't prep because you can win PK's without preps. Yes, you can, but you can win more and generally spend more time fighting (instead of running away and healing) if you do these things than if you don't, and fighting and winning are fun and fleeing and sleeping are not.

Which is that you don't need to spam because changes in thing like Faster learning for Lower int races, skill learn and smart use of weapons and mobs as well as much faster learning the higher you get in level (And age) gives you nearly identical results in much less time.

Valid point. When I used to do defenses at 15/16 it was more "active". I would need to watch my health, figure out when to flee, alternate between mobs so they don't die, etc.

I don't slow down when I rank.I have little trouble retrieving etc.

But what ever floats your boat.

That you aren't nearly as knowledgeable/skilled as you think you are. For instance, telling Isildur to use skill learn as if he doesn't know how. Since this handle is new (to my recollection), can you share with us your successful characters so we can judge the effects of your vastly superior practicing method based on the results?

You seem to believe that getting to hero fastest with skills perfected is the goal, which it isn't always.

And I know Isildur isn't new. He responded to my post with the obvious "I know what Dual Wield is". So I poked at him. You seem to think I don't think he actually knows what it means.

I don't care to tell you anything at all about me so back on point.

I wrote this post specifically to point out that people wasting their time for minimal if any gain. And then I offered my technique.

You can have your cake and eat it too. If you want to grind when you don't have to that's fine. I don't have to respect that anymore than you respect my stance.

Sorry for the damage to your posterior.

I don't think anybody in their right mind cares how you want to play the game - you do you. But, just because others play differently, doesn't make them stupider than you. The fact that you logged onto a forum and made a post like this, then proceeded to respond the way you have to Tac and others, makes it seem like you are the kind of guy who makes a new mage and freaks out when my warrior or assassin won't help him spam level to 51 .

For real, though - what is the point of making a post asking people a question if you already have the answer and don't want to listen to anything they have to say? My life got a lot less stressful once I stopped needing others to think about everything the same way I do!

I started the thread because I wanted to point out that I find it a completely unnecessary endeavor to grind, especially weapons and defenses and I wanted to share my methods.

I felt moved to do so after litterally every melee based character I have asked to group with of late has said they are grinding weapons and defenses.

Apparently I hurt some butts in doing so. Oh well.

There are two people who I salted. That's because two people salted me.

And no. I do try the occasional mage but melee classes are my forte. That's how I learned to maximize my output with them.

Ythallanar tells you 'I ask. Do you travel alone to hone your skills?'

You tell someone 'Yip.'

Ythallanar tells you 'I do not. It is a waste of time. SOme day I will find you and I will defeate you to prove what a wate your efforts are.'

Ythallanar tells you 'You will have no chance against me Aarak. What you do now is something from a older time. '

Ythallanar tells you 'When I am of your power in my guild I will be equally skilled or more so in all I know. '

Ythallanar tells you 'I look forward to standing over you.'


Huh... I guess yes is an attack now...

I had a similar experience recently except it went on for half an hour. I'm not going to bother to prove it with logs but can say from recent experience leveling low int/wis races that unless you burn 3 pracs per skill, there's really no way skill learn takes you to 97+ defenses at 15 without some spamming, and even if you do I'm skeptical. Skill focus simply doesn't work well for 17-18 wis. At any rate thumbs down to the OOC whine machine that OP becomes when his/her characters are turned down for groups.

Dude's last character was gnome. No wonder he liked it.

Dying to that mob that would have given me the next level was too much bro!

I wouldn't really take your pies. I just like Kastida's prep bags.

You also do a lot of straight up lying about your experience.

I have recently raced to hero in 20 hours and the only skill I had perfected by the time I got there was "sword".

The game doesn't start at hero though, and I enjoy low/midlevel PK. And for that purpose spamming is essential.

If you think there's no reason for spamming - good luck surviving me on lowlevels.

You are actually one of the people I was thinking of when I wrote this.

Just saying.

Because so far it surely sounds like bullcrap.

There would be several quotes. You often complain.

Edit: Correction; You often make empty threats until I climb into your PK or you climb into mine. Then you die or run away and make excuses.

You should have it figured out by now.

NT

But I molested Kastida with a couple of characters and if I am guessing correctly last winter you had a frostie in Outlander too that I impregnated.

But I haven't heroed or even played much in a year or two.

Who did never spam a skill.

Say did you molest this dude who I did spam skills as?

Kaer advanced to level 40 <PK: 90-22>

But it's been a while. Whenever I id you I tend to write a script that blocks you out.

...I got all my weapons skills but polearm/mace to 100% (well almost all, think I was on like 97 or 96 with flail and maybe staff?), mastered bash/trip/whatever else.

I was in a solid group, no one was ever getting hurt more than covered, we were alternating tanks (cry of thunder + berserk + recup is nice that way sometimes), morale stayed very high.

You can totally power rank to hero, and plan for a solid ranking night (psst, don't perma though, I've heard that's frowned on) accordingly (practice weapons, if practicing flurry refresh potions, etc) and be mastered skills + sitting at hero in 45 hrs relatively easily if things break your way. Add +20 hrs for lower than 18 int.

Being in a group allows you to take hoodeds and thus gain much much faster.

Say you're duergar/fire warrior. In my experience, trying to learn up in FON early just leads to a lot of frustration. Even with two rings out of the docks, you just get hit a lot. Way too much and I even made a special effort to maximize AC and really really try, but got nowhere. It's not worth it to spend an hour for like 2% up. Plus, you can't go above 85%. So IMHO it just makes more sense to just mist it up at 15 when you have the hp to soak it up and fairly predictable %/hr that you can do. I'm not a maniac and won't do things like die on purpose before hitting 16, but I'd like my parry/dodge at least at like 90-95 before I progress. Sure, it may grow up on its own in time, but it will take its sweet time doing so and in the meantime I know I can't stand up to half of my range who bothered to skill up. And I do like to hunt randomly just for the heck of it out of optimal sweet spots.

...in an area near a healer that have a vuln I can exploit...and most of my low int characters don't have that much of an issue with skills.

Did you once have a gnome flail spec in Battle?

NT

You can only get defenses Parry, dodge, armor skills etc to 80% pre 15 via spam. But skill learn can get you to 99% in at least one of those before the 15th. Wisdom helps in this regaurd. Higher wisdom increases odds of you selected "Skill Learn" firing as well as giving a higher percentage gain in it. Also having wisdom MAXXED NATURALY gives you a greater chance to get max %gains as well.

I had and may still have some percentage gains saved for some of my characters.

The mists is possibly the most sub-optimal place there is unless you have to be afk or semi-afk or are like 10th level.

As far as FoN goes. I live there. I barely ever use scan as I know where everything is going to be and how many there are. What I notice people doing is over estimating their own or their parties ability and going for the taglos and gnolls only and wasting time resting.

Usually resting in FoN is only needed when you have cleared the MOBs. Start with the largest mobs you can take. Fight them until you are in the dangerzone with hp. Drop a tier down fight those until you heal or rank, return to the next tier up. Repeat.

Big exp gains for big mobs are not as good as good or kinda good games from many smaller mobs if it takes you 2 to 3 ticks to recover from the fight. The same is true for skills. If you aren't using them you aren't learning them.

Skills like pierce, charge, pugil, lash etc improve skill in the weapon they are associated with too.

Remember tougher is better, but action is best there is a sweet spot.

> I can master or near master my defenses by the time I am 15 to 20 with nearly any race.

For the record, this isn't my experience. That said, I still don't think it's worth sitting at 15 to work on defenses.

Now, what I do often do is solo rank. That takes care of weapons, defenses, and most skills you use in combat. Then I'll spend time focusing on specific skills that aren't easily practiced mid-fight.

Now granted with a low int warrior there are more weapons and skills to learn but remember.

An axe spec doesn't need two axes to learn his axe skills. Nor does a dagger spec, or a mace spec or a whip spec.

If you set a goal of learning at least 1% with a weapon you don't favor per level you will be close to max very soon. Dual wielding the same sort of weapons will get you to 90% in a good group in 2 or 3 ranks 4 on the outside with dumb races. After that just rotate out your weapons from time to time and get a percent here and there.

When fighting Ugruk dual wield axes ajd be up front if you can tank and you get bonus learning from "watching your opponent".

You also start learning your skills more easily at higher ranks as a matter of code. Ever notice how easy it is to quickly learn your second spec?

Oh yeah... never waste time practicing your spec weapons above 80%. You learn them faster once you spec in them.

So many tricks.

I think I just rank too efficiently when I'm in a group of three. I gain ranks faster than my skills go up.

If I'm playing a non-tanky class then defenses go up slowly because I can only tank a couple mobs before needing to let someone else stand in front. Once I do that, I'm gaining xp but not skill %.

Then there are the skills that aren't readily used while ranking.

As is dual wield.

And the occasional rescue.

I suspect but can't confirm high moral helps skills work more efficiently so for defenses that helps. I wear +morale stuff if it is good for melee.

Not to sound too snarky, but I'm aware of the dual wield skill.

.

When I'm playing a class with evade I always skill learn evade, since it's so hard to improve at otherwise. Defenses, weapons, etc. are practice-able. Evade less so.

Then I do the standard defenses and weapons.

>I suspect but can't confirm high moral helps skills work more
>efficiently so for defenses that helps. I wear +morale stuff
>if it is good for melee.

It does not. Umiron-confirmed.

More efficient.

Sorry

#sub (Gromm tells you %0) (Gromm tells you something stupid.)

#sub (Gromm says %0) (Gromm says something stupid.)

#sub (Gromm yells %0) (Gromm yells something stupid.)

I would say read and UNDERSTAND what I wrote how morale does have a secondary effect at the least in skill learning but I no longer care. You're just talking to talk I'm going to cut this on my end this now.

Not secondary not tertiary not what's next. http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=65679&mesg_id=65690&page=

Continue spouting nonsense though.

High morale makes your character do things more efficiently. Thus while not being a direct actor on the RNG there are second tier benefits.

If you don't get that I don't know what else to do since I'm not good at drawing pictures.

Okay. Now I'm reinstating my #subs.

Can you elaborate?

None of what's on his list can help with skill learning that I can tell. Even in some subtle kind of way.

- mana regen
- movement regen
- berserk chance and heal amount
- recuperate heal amount

You are more efficient.

How much do you think you'll recuperate more at low levels with a high morale? 1 hp?

Same for mana regen.

Yeah, you can say it makes you more efficient, which it does in a sense, in the same way picking up pennies will make you rich.

As stated I had a sense that it made me learn more effeciently.

It's more than a single hp or mana but it doesn't give you whispers. Just makes you more efficient. I didn't say this was the key to success, just a consideration.

Well done.

For a variety of reasons...

I sometimes don't want to pay super close attention while I play and the OCD in me loves seeing 100s when I hit skill, so it feels like I'm accomplishing something while giving my character a little leg up and something to brag about.

It's very satisfying to set my mind to a task and accomplish it, whether that's "I will get 100% in parry and shield block before level 16" or "I will land 5 pks before advancing to level 40" or "I will learn where x, y, and z items are before I delete this character."

Owning level 20s who didn't learn <insert weapon skill and defense here> is hilarious.

Probably could be a longer list - obviously others will feel differently, but someone spamming skills solo doesn't hurt anyone and I always laugh when people give me #### in game for doing it because it reeks of a certain kind of "you exist for my pleasure" sort of attitude .

But while it's soothing in some ways it can be done dynamically too.

nt

Prac all 1st level skills to 71% or 75%.

Set skill learn to parry.

Spam Parry to 80% at level 1 wielding the practice sword then switch to Whip (Dagger if you are a hunter.) You can do this and become at home in the wilds at the same time.

Advance to 2nd level practice 2nd level skills, wear a leather shield.

Put one practice into Camo. As soon as you are at home in wilds spam to perfection insode of 10 minutes.

Level up to 9th. Practice Dodge, go to FoN, stash all your gear so your weight is under half. (Don't stash around mobs there. They pick things up) wield mace, dirt a dozen beasts slugs and laxians. (I avoid Angnos they seem to me to have a higher hit roll than laxians). Group them up. Wield your whip (Should be around 80% by now) hit laxians, switch as they get hurt to slugs then beasts. You will have 80% dodge inside of 5-10 minutes, maybe 15 for a giant. Set skill learn to dodge. Your parry will probably be in the mid to high 90's by now with 21 wis races. Upper 80's low 90's with the rest.

Go rank. At 10th you only need shield block if you are a hunter or animist. Spam it the exact same way as dodge but leave skill learn on dodge. Then forget about it until your dodge is in the 97% range. Then switch skill learn to it.

Once dodge and shield block are at 97%, switch skill learn back to parry. If parry is already there set skill learn to Herbs. All this should be finished around the 20th (or sooner with luck 25th with out luck or low wis)

When you get Ambush do Ambush Onslaughts with the whip inorder to generate more fails. You'll master it by 25th with any race.

DON'T BOTHER WIELDING SPEARS OR STAFFS. Your ranger spears and staffs learn like souped up balator weapons at the ranks they come in. When they do come in practice the skills associated with them. Pugil, pierce, charge (If a plainsrunner), thrust (if 22 or greater str)

When dual wield comes into play, wield two of the same weapons, axes, daggers, maces, swords. Make one of them (preferably main) a Balator blade until 90th (A wizi imm once told me balator bonuses drop off well before 90 but I wield them exclusivley until 90% then ditch them and switch to another set. After you get 90% in each wield the whip again, dual wield the other weapons and do whatever floats your boat.

Always look for water when it becomes available. (Spamming on trails will get you mastered in 5 to 10 minutes if you really want to)

For creep find a wild area that loops like the mists or void or oceans for mariners and take 20 minutes to master it.

After each fight CAMO then camp. On the tick do herbs. This is a time saver, bigly.

At 35th go to the trolls or elves of FoN. Hold a non-weapon, non-shield in off hand, a rat tail in your main hand and get 15 or more mobs on you. Master Wilderness fam in 15 minutes. Bonus: if you are a marshdweller or a Cavern Dweller you can master you special defenses like swampmire at this time at the same time.

I have to go but aside from a few brief pauses for critical skills you can be grouped with others the whole time.

It doesn't take much imagination to adjust this for thieves, assassins, warriors, paladins etc.

With mages it's even easier.

Laters.

Than just spending an hour misting it up on 15.

Due to it being populated with low level mobs and high PK traffic.

But if you want to find a low level Russian that's where you go. I guess that's where all the wraiths come from.

And I don't give a flying furnace.

.

I just could not resist but I think you have had a big break

Quote:

"Level up to 9th. Practice Dodge, go to FoN, stash all your gear so your weight is under half. (Don't stash around mobs there. They pick things up) wield mace, dirt a dozen beasts slugs and laxians. (I avoid Angnos they seem to me to have a higher hit roll than laxians). Group them up. Wield your whip (Should be around 80% by now) hit laxians, switch as they get hurt to slugs then beasts. You will have 80% dodge inside of 5-10 minutes, maybe 15 for a giant. Set skill learn to dodge. Your parry will probably be in the mid to high 90's by now with 21 wis races. Upper 80's low 90's with the rest."

Only issue with this is the following:
It will not improve past 80% until you are at least level 15.

CF Helpfile Search
PARRY (509)

Syntax: Automatic Skill

If at first you fail to dodge, block it. Parry is useful for deflecting
attacks, and is successful more often than DODGE. Parry requires a weapon
for full success, though certain classes who are very skilled in hand-to
hand combat may parry even without a weapon. The best chance of parrying
occurs when the defender is skilled in both his and his opponent's weapon
type. Also, the type of weapon you are using versus the type your opponent
is using will play a significant part (don't try to parry an axe with your
dagger, etc.).

Especially heavy weapons are somewhat more challenging to parry, as are
the natural attacks of very large and powerful monsters such as dragons.
This effect is slightly larger if the defender's weapon is much lighter.

If you do not have the parry skill, you may parry attacks on rare occasions,
but your ability will be inferior to that of one who does have the skill.

It will not improve past 80% until you are at least level 15.

Order of defenses: Distance, Spin, Evade, Parry, Shield Block, Dodge

See Also: DODGE, 'SHIELD BLOCK', EVADE, 'ARMOR DEFELCTION'

I may not have been clear about that.

But I think it got fixed as a bug. I could roll something up and prove to myself one way or the other, but it doesn't really matter that much to me.

This is a low int Low Wis Character power ranked.

Look at the Parry skill.

axe 75% dagger 78%
flail 75% mace 76%
polearm 75% spear 80%
sword 75% staff 76%
whip 75% enhanced damage 82%
hand to hand 75% parry 86%
rescue 75% recall 100%
shield block 1%
Level 2: improved compare 75% elbow 1%
metal armor use 76% light armor use 76%
beseech 1%
Level 3: dirt kicking 82%
Level 4: aim 75% knee 1%
Level 5: second attack 77%
Level 6: fast healing 77%
Level 7: recuperate 75%
Level 8: kick 1%
Level 10: disarm 75% feint 1%
pen 1%
Level 12: third attack n/a dual wield n/a

I'm not certainly sure if luck is tied to it on any level but wis is. Still this one has not impressed me.