Please use the following format:

Expensive edges: 1
Medium edges: 2
Cheap edges: 2


This is before any imm exp or role exp. I'm curious what everyone thinks they should get before any effort beyond that. This is assuming you've reached max level for your race.

Obviously I cannot do anything about this, but the data could be useful.

I read two books last week. That's good, but that much reading suggests that this game isn't the draw it used to be, and for me, some of that has been the loss of access to edges.

To some extent or another, working toward edges was something I felt I had control over. I had come to accept that there were always going to be people out there that seemed to be on the "high edge fast track", but it didn't matter that much because I knew that if I kept at it, I could find out what a new edge does without sacrificing two other lower edges.

Since the active playerbase is a fourth of what it once was, and immortal interaction (for me) has dwindled to a fourth--hell, who are we kidding. It has been three years since an immortal has interacted with me in a meaningful way outside of a shrine. Anyway. I have fewer rp interactions now, and it has been a long, long time since I have received imm exp.

Fewer players, fewer pk, less rp. I could play a few new-to-me classes, but some classes just haven't held any appeal.

Any shot at a global imm-driven quest in the near future?

3 expensive
5 medium
20 cheap (nowadays, I just don't take them, because EPs are too important to waste them on cheap edges)

Combined.

Edges are awesome. With less action and lower PBs, they become one of the driving forces behind people playing. Removing them just makes people play less.

I think every player: Even a complete newbie, actually especially a newbie, just putting in the full playing time to age death should have 3 Expensive Edges, 5 Medium, and 8 Cheap edges.

There are too many well designed cheap edges. So many. Even 3 expensive edges I could come up with dozens of combinations that don't cross over. So no one is going to have "all edges".

Then after this extra edges should be added for non-pk, non-veteran stuff. So its still accessable to ALL players, newbies and veterans.

Basically Cabal Participation and Roleplaying. Both these things enhance the game environment for everyone.

Also, everything above. Long-term characters, cabal fighting instead of logging out, and roleplaying BETTER the mud. More activity increases, more and more players will log in and come back.

I know a few people in real life that would come back next week if edges were much more accessible again. Oddly, these people HATED observation requirements etc. So I think you are heading in the right direction. But now edge availability is sad. I mean, like it actually depresses me.

PS: I'm having a bad first time experience back. Edges use to be my favorite thing as I love customization and trying new combinations. Right now I have 80 hours playing time, two role entries, am cabaled, have done a few thousand in e-commerce experience and haven't been offered ONE edge.

Not one, not one single edge. That's just really bad for the game. There was a reason some of these had minimum level requirements so we could play with them much earlier.

My recent warrior experiment had all the super cheap edges available once I hit level 25. Stuff like Urbanite, Woodsman, etc.

I had no role. No IMM xp.

I had cabal induction XP. I had 3000 commerce exp or so from doing quests. But that's about it. I had 36 quests finished though, so perhaps that might have factored in as well.

Perhaps you aren't at level 25 yet? I know you're a relatively slow leveler, so that might be it.

3k commerce xp is likely enough to take the cheapest edges in the game. You don't get EP from quests. Try getting more expensive edges without Role/Imm XP before you get to hero. Good luck! <3

NT

But it doesn't matter if you have completed 1 quest or 1 billion quests. It's only the 3000 commerce XP that counts (however you sourced it).

My last character that was denied was on route to hit over 105 quest completions as a lawful evil (and lawful evils have access to the least amount of quests in the game).

...I could easily do 100+.

And when I say power-gamed, I'm talking mob-dying to stay at certain levels on purpose to complete more quests, doing stupid side #### that doesn't give you any intrinsic benefit, etc etc.

Edited to add: I had 36 done and 8 more in the queue, and I was like level 27. And passed on about 20 quests because they didn't benefit me much or because I leveled too fast. Though that was a neutral neutral (who probably has the best available quest list).

Second Edited to add: And that's also including a couple quests that were broken and/or unknown to me (like, I'm 99.9% sure there's a mob that offers a quest in XXXXX but #### if I have any clue on how to trigger it, etc).

Horrible for my first character back.

I"m like... I don't even get to decide not to take some weak worthless edge? Like not even farmers daughter or something?

I've also never went so many hours without role exp With the lower playerbase (which I'd like to help increase) its more reason I think edges should stop popping up based on hour game time from hour 1 and on.

We shouldn't have ANYTHING waiting for immortals. There interactions are awesome, but if they get busy, its not fair to players and its not fair to them... because it becomes a chore for them.

40+, 60 hours playing time. Cabaled.

When I say no edges... I mean not even woodsman. NOTHING in the discussion list. You can see why I'm so disheartened about edges. This is 20 times worse than I expected. I thought everyone was just whining.

I did NOT do quests. I thought quests don't count towards edges.

No edges.

I'm back to my original 5 characters playing style, and I'm sitting on the forums too bored to log in.

Noone to PK, noone to rank with, I'm a sad panda currently, thinking "what do I roll to overcome this".

And won't even consider a return until they fix edges.

NT

Based on your last character that I am aware of, you would probably be able to get the exact same edges in the current spread as you did prior to it.

On RokhwarI had not yet spent points from hero/10 retrievals/cabal leader/lastname/1400 role exp/imm xp/and about 10k exploration/obs mixed. I doubt I'd come close should I give it a go. While sam may get his rocks of teasing me, I just find the loss of what I saw as a great mechanic for character customization and development a huge demotivated when I think about rolling up.

NT

I don't enjoy giving the IMM's grief. Nor am I sure they would agree with you. I disagree with the changes Umiron has made, and was quite vocal about it. If they can't handle negative feedback - then they shouldn't be in the position (Thankfully, Umiron problem solved). Your self-perception of being a white knight does not counter the fact that you are simply being a non constructive douche-nozzle.

This post of yours is a great example of you just being a big ole jerk for no good reason. There is a big difference between negative feedback and being an asshole. Most of the time our players end up as the second option. Thats also not directed at you specifically but it seemed a good opportunity for the general commentary to the masses.

If you look above, I had made a statement based on my opinion. There was no need for Sam to chime in with his drivel, and yet he did anyways. I called him out on being an asshole - which he was.

I'd love to have a constructive discussion about edges - as I believe many others would. I thank you for your willingness to participate.

At the same time, I probably should have just taken the high road with Sam. But, sometimes the low road provides more satisfaction.

My comment was more directed at the unnecessary Umi hate you added. I get that you didnt agree with some of the things associated with his name on the code change forum, but the game is certainly drastically worse off without him for a ton of reasons that almost everyone will never know or want to believe.

I think 2-3 expensive, 2-3 medium ones and 2-3 cheap ones for a ~100 hr old hero would be ok. Accumulated more or less linearly by hours and levels, commerce and such. Then *additionally* you could get more from imm xp, and possibly some from PK wins/losses.

I agree that the lack of edges now is a big detriment to the game and should be fixed asap, I for one am not looking forward to rolling new characters anymore. =(

NT

But you can't stop the progress.

NT

0.

We just need to remove the last few remaining ways to earn edge points and then the system will be perfect.

I don't know the details of the current system, but things should be made cheaper, especially the ones no one chooses, like Hermit or somesuch. There's an abundance of cheap edges that no one takes now and no one certainly will take in the future because people will be saving up for the big one. If it costs 1 EP now, it should probably go down to like 0.2 or so, more so for the ones that don't add much or at all mechanically and are more for flavor.

I'd want to see the following at hero w/o immxp:

Expensive edges: 1
Medium edges: 2
Cheap edges: 3
Flavor edges: 5

I'd do it like this:

At level 30 you get enough edge points for 1 cheap edge.

At 35 you get enough (total) to take 2 cheap, 1 medium.

At 40 you get enough total to take 3 cheap, 1.5 medium, 1 expensive.

ETC

Then at 51, where you have enough to take 5 cheap, 3 medium, or 2 expensive...I'd add these benchmarks:

at 100 hrs gain points to take 1 cheap edge

at 200 hrs gain points to take 2 cheap, 1 medium

at 300 hrs gain points to take 3 cheap, 1.5 medium, 1 expensive

and so on and so on.

So if I'm a 300 hr character at hero, just by playing the game I have enough edge points to take 8 cheap edges or 4-5 medium edges or 3 expensive.

nt

Your selected number of the just by playing the game I should be able to get 8 cheap 4/5 medium or 3 expensive is actually pretty close to the current system. Assuming you get the EP from writing a role that is. A "power combo" receives less EP for hitting hero, so they may end up at the 2 but not quite a 3rd expensive with no imm exp and a "bad combo" gets a little more EP for hitting hero, so they may end up at the 3 but not quite a 4th expensive with no imm exp.

Also, based on the variance of exact point numbers, 3 expensive can be a fairly drastic difference in total number of points based on the specific edges.

Personally I'm a fan of the edge point changes.

I always thought it was kinda stupid that characters could have 20+.

This helps a lot. Thanks for that.

If edges were split into three categories that gave you a rough idea of how expensive they are would give us (players) a better reference point. As it is right now, I look at the list and I have no idea where the "expensive" edges end and where the "medium" ones start. We just have a sliding scales of the cost. It is mostly a perception/edge planning thing more than an actual flaw in the system.

I do think some people want every single option with every character, which is not the point of the system. I get from their perspective why they would want them. Some edges are really cool or helpful in specific situations but not a first choice to them.

For myself those numbers sound like they are in a good place. You shouldn't have every edge, but a good amount is important for customization. Generally with a character I want two or three expensive edges and a few mediums as a baseline. So I wouldnt have a problem with increasing edges slightly to allow for that. But we are talking about the difference between 2-3 expensive edges and 3-4 expensive edges as a baseline. The cheap edges I generally do not care about except for a select few. Anything beyond that is just a bonus.

This is aimed specifically at the imm staff:
Do you think that 1 "expensive" edge would make up the difference between what people were getting from PK and Obs/exp enough? Even if it is over all still less, it is more than people were getting previously if they were not engaging in PK or Obs/explore exp. People were definitely getting too many edges originally so I think over all cutting back was a good thing. Finding the right number should be well thought out. Obviously, you do not need to answer here. It is your decision in the end.

i'm just now having some free time to kick around in CF so i've missed all of the mess with edges. the framework is there. minimize the min/maxers and just give edge points for hitting levels 31/41/51.

boost exp gained for observation/exploration but no edge points

gr