First,

To answer your question on why I attacked you - I did it to have fun, which is the whole point of the game. Sure, I could play in a super-conservative method and approach every single fight with aura/stoneskin/prot ethos/etc, but I've chosen not to (I should have had flight up though...stupid mistake).

Second - your character was not ruined. What you had is an uncaballed hero dark-elf warrior with a bunch of RP possibilities. You could have:

Let the Nightreaver approach you IC, and perhaps convince you to turn against the imperials and their gods who cast you out. It would be awesome to RP an ethos change, of course it would not be easy - but hey you're a vet. What's the point in taking the same ol' easy conservative path every single time.

or

Maintained being orderly, and perhaps pursued the tribunal. Maybe using newfound influence to start a trib/empire conflict.

Realistically, I truly believe there is a lot you could have done, being that I saw an anathema become the emperor. I understand getting angry over IC things, but truly when something like your character thinking he got anath'd wrongfully happens, it closes a door but opens a lot of others.

I'd encourage you to seek challenging new RP venues over tried and true combinations in an attempt to "win" at the game. I did this time around, and it is turning out to be a blast. I'll explain more when Rokhwar is gone.

After having some time to think more about this, I'd like to add constructively to the discussion.

I respectfully request that what I say doesn't get used as "ammo" or something. I'm not putting myself in a position of choosing sides, or anything like that. I'm looking the situation objectively, and attempting to add some points to the very good post by Rokhwar.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, because as I've learned in this game - sometimes it is easier (and more efficient use of your time) to delete and reroll instead of spending double the amount of time to get exactly where you would be by just rolling a new char. However, I'm not certain that was the case with your character.

But, I digress.

First, Imperial Law.

The Emperor is to interpret the law. Had you stuck out the character, I do not doubt you would be back in Empire. From a purely IC point of view, the law says kill, and nobody died. However, most certainly, your intent was to kill. Thus, I can see an argument being made on both sides.

A very strict interpretation of this law leads to all kinds of unintended consequences, which when thought about, are just dumb. For instance, if you are slept by a bard, and you get woken up by being attacked by another imperial, is that Imperial now anathema? Of course not, that's stupid. However, if you attack an imperial with the intent of killing them, could you be made anathema? Maybe. Depending on who is viewing the situation. From Destuvius's point of view? Definitely.

I called you back after you fled to accept your punishment - which was VERY Destuvian. Had you done this, you might not have been the Warmaster, but you likely would have gotten back into Empire, and most certainly could have milked the experience for some cool edges or rewards, or something. There could have been a whole "Grand Design" Story Arc with your rise to power behind it. Who knows.

Second, the Fight.

I took for granted that it was understood a blood reckoning would need to be called before you could fight. I looked through some of the logs, and it appears I never said that you could NOT fight until I called the blood reckoning. However, I never said start the fight.

I had some really fun things planned before the fight began, which I never got to do. Things I would have liked to have said to enhance the experience. Alas, the roleplay opportunity was missed.

Third, Warmaster.

The reason I setup the fight, and called the Imperials to watch, was for the character experience (everyone involved). I thought it would be very cool for both of you, and for the Empire as a whole, to get to participate in the raising of the Warmaster. At the very least, more interesting than just promoting who had more gold. It could have been a critical point in both character arcs and led to some really awesome roleplay. Additionally, Imperials that witnessed the event could have used it as additional fuel and role additions to push them to reach their full potential.

I'm most disappointed that this never happened. It was a huge letdown to such a big buildup over the last couple of days, and was upsetting to lose what could have been a very cool roleplaying experience for everyone involved.

That being said, I also believe that you lost a very good roleplaying experience by just throwing up your hands and pulling the OOC conspiracy card immediately, instead of just cooling down and going with the flow. The "Fun" part of Empire is that it is run by the players IN the Empire; NOT Immortals.

Anyway. I hope you think up a good "kill all Destuvians" role and exact your revenge. However, I do not believe you will find the emotional catharsis you are looking for.

GLWYN.


tl;dr Yeah, I got nothin.

from rp point of view. And this is the mistake. Again, I prayed after his action and immediatly got 'go and #### yourself' answer and the sad imm went into the silent mode, clever! That basicaly means - no comeback to the empire, no immortal induct to other cabals. That imm basicaly destroed fun for lets say 5 peoples who were in the palace in that moment just because of his ooc wish to destroy beront's char. There is no conspiracy in it. Also, the imm in question were trying to lie in my farewells. And this is the absolutly low level action. And I am not even angry, in fact I am calm.

And I asked you to start the fight, I asked 'Ready?' So he was snooping that and decided 'AHA! THATS THE MOMENT TO ANATHEMA HIM! GO GO GO'. Lol. Also, let me say that, if the bard sleeps one imperial and the other imperial wakes him with the aggresive action - AHA, IMPERIAL ATTACKED ANOTHE IMPERIAL! ANATHEMA HIM! Lol. See? It was completly bordeline OOC.

Other players have met the same treatment in past year. But this time it went too far. This is why imms stay away from that thread.

I can absolutely see a god bent on keeping order in his house, anathema one of his wayward followers, to show him dominion and obedience. Is it hard. Yes. Is it OOC? No. This is IC behavior.

One imperial wakes from the bards sleep another imperial with lets say artery skill - anathema him?

Also, some imperial attacked the vanquisher two or three days ago, and not once. Did he anathema him? No.

He could anathema me after - and its ok, it would be MUCH more IC action. But he was scared that I could win the fight and get the leader spot in his cabal.

...with Jindicho I got #### on.

And I still had a chance to get into a cabal that the IMMs had set a hard-coded NO to me at the time.

Now granted, that took 90 hours or so of sticking it out after I got screwed, but still.

I totally understand your position, FWIW, but I also understand the IMMs position as well.

I won't even go into some of your accusations, because while some are true (and I know them to be true), some are bat#### crazy and I know them to be false

things about no go into cabalas or ignore thing.

My last anathema, after short conversation with the imm, was ignored for 300 ####ing hours, one month IRL. So I couldn't join to the cabal because I DIDN't saw the leader of cabal for 300 hours. And the imm basicaly ignored me - telling wait the leader, wait the leader. 300 ####ing hours and 1 month irl. Delete delete after the month of rp and kicking some asses as the anathema.

So when I say I had no chances - I had no chances.

1. If your character concept/build employed Empire from the very start, then you can't do as Anathema really well. It's very hard emotionally, and it's easier to reroll, because basicly you're forced to play something you don't want.

2. If you don't really care and aren't thought out - you don't care and stick it out as Anathema. That was the case with the two longest-enduring Anathemas of the late - Zqoemoa and Tiiga. Zqoemoa - I rolled w/o idea of joining Empire in the first place, joined on a whip and didn't care much. Tiiga - I was talking her into joining Empire for like 20 levels, and it didn't seem like she joined because the character was based around Empire.

Building a character around Empire from the start and continuing to play after Anathema - I can only think of Sindrir, and he still based his game around Empire, and it was almost his agedeath anyway so he was burning it out.

I had many anathemas in my CF career. And all of them were well deserved. In fact I enjoy to play anathemas, really it adds everyone in your kill list.

But with that char, the way that imm pulled that ooc #### on that character just killed all interest in char. And more I was EXPECTING the anathema AFTER loosing the challange (it was a smart way to anathema me). But that imm was soooooo angry on me and wanted to anathema me so badly - so he pulled that #### in a worst stupid way. And that killed all my interest in char immediatly. I think he had opened Pandora box with that move. We had high hopes for the new imms crew but now we see that the #### is still there. Nothing have changed.

I can't say I'm righteous paladin IRL though.

Who is this "we" because it sounds like a singular petulant child throwing a fit.

You squandered a glorious opportunity to RP into another cabal with the possibility of no negative impact to your character (in otherwords, no loss of specs).

CF is not black and white nor should it be. Play the grey

you need the imm to be inducted into the cabal. And I think dest couldn't pull such ####ty action without agreement from others so I didn't have any chance to join other cabals. In this case, it was not grey.

PS: Also, leave your harrasments about 'we' for qhcf where you're still lying about my person. Where you are in the right to lie and harras other players with obscene words. In fact I today I asked in a normal way to unban me, and you immediatly lied about that to others.

You asked to be unbanned
I responded with a simple question as to if you will abide by the rules

Instead of simply saying yes so I could move you out of the #### board you circumvented the punishment by posting with a secondary account

Rather cut and dry with no grey area, unlike in game actions.

to lie again.

I posted in my post on qhcf (that you deleted) that I LOST my password on account. SO I started to reactivate it. And you need to enter the email for this. I switched 5 emails and didn't find the mail. Only the mail with the account which was created I don't even when. AND I WROTE THAT IN MY POST. And now you are trying to switch facts again. I didn't see your post on the ####board (because well, I LOST THE PASSWORD).

PS: And please, stop posting unrelated things, don't hj this thread.

You lost your password for your dhagor account between the 13 hours ago that you posted using that account to ask to be unblocked and the 5 hours ago when you posted with your secondary account to bypass the ban???

Hmmmmm

to check my IPS. You'll find that I had different IP's. I posted from dhargor - from my work, then I WENT HOME - where I don't have the password for dhargor account. So I started to reactivate it.

If you will stop breaking the rules I will gladly move the dhagor account out of ####posting right now, do you have a way to recover that password?

Why do you think he keeps breaking keyboards.

Cut him some slack

Typically, whoever is a cabal Immediately in a particular cabal is in charge of their own little sandbox. Other Immortals may help enforce egregious errors (Empire/Tribunal breaking their particular rules, Outlanders shopping in Tamarin, Fortress killing goodies, etc), the final says go in-house. Given that case, there's not really anyone that's going to question Destuvius taking action in Empire. Similarly, if Strienat decides to change things up in Outlander, or Ysal and I in Battle, that's our individual playhouses.

For posterity's sake - given it's just Anathema, I personally wouldn't have had any problem with near any cabal you went, so long as it has sensible character backing vs. it coming across as pure cabal hopping.

What DID set me off from wanting to deal with any of this (should you not have deleted) was the batch of praying about how you've been maligned and abused, and how we're all cheaters and ruining the game. I'm pretty certain you've already made up your mind, but maybe it'll be useful for someone.

Ultimately, CF includes evil -and by its very nature, evil generally ends up unpleasant for someone. It's probably the toughest thing to balance as an evil Immortal - RP vs ruining player's experiences. For orderly, it's useful that the rules are very clear. You break them, you get punished harshly. Chaotic's even more of a mess.

I was already going to delete. Because no way I'll support such ####ty ooc action from the imm. And when I sent prayes I knew what was going on. Its not the first time when I face some #### like this.

And as we talk about sandboxes within the Empire - its not the first utterly #### action that we face. If I will start to tell you stories - a lot of other players will leave that mud forever. Because hey! The #### is still here. Like in ol'gud times.

Even when they said to move our discussion here, I belive they will remove anything with my name in post. Like NBM delete all my accounts and posts on qhcf, because I killed his chars in game

But I will try to say something again.

I didn't have other possibilites in game because it was OOC move from the IMM and after anathema you NEED the imm to induct you into the other cabal. Basicaly that imm threw 100 hours on a char into the window. Nice job Nice show for new players. See the discussion on qhcf, the oldschool guy who saw that action - now don't want to return. Very well done, imms crew.


PS: Yep, outlanders should always carry flight

It could be a lot of fun getting an IMM induct into another cabal. Most IMM's as I understand it don't have access to the details about who you are, or where you are connecting from. You could've worked your way into somewhere else.

And now as they push their ooc strategy to get rid of some players, I wouldn't get the imm induction in any cabal with 100% chance.

NT

Sure not all Imms have access to IP track players but they sure as hell have the ability to read notes on a character that certain Imms, who shall remain nameless, will litter with lies and hate.

Keep living in that bubble of yours, Moops.