I remember a post (was it here or on Dio?) about a binder who dragged someone from Udgaard to a locked room in Galadon. The process took a few hours and the thief was re-binding the victim after blackjacking.

I wonder...


1) Why he was using blackjack: could it be done with garotte only?


2) After how long do binders need to garotte/blackjack & rebind (tie and truss) to keep someone incapacitated?


3) the binder was using giant strength potion to aid him drag; is drag strength based? Does it make a difference if your str max is 18 and you boost it to 22 with spells/potions?

Blackjack higher success rate possibly? Or perhaps he didn't have garotte? (I'm not a thief expert.)

Number 2 is something you'd learn by experimentation. It's a while though.

Number 3: You can't raise strength above racial max, so not sure what you are asking here. Pretty sure your strength (capped at the max) is important. Guessing your size might be too (so enlarge could potentially help?)

I often think about ways of killing uber ap's, and one I always thought had a chance is to bind the ap, but then instead of attacking on the first set of bindings, ko them again when needed, rebind, and wait for irongrip to drop. I think if you don't ko and rebind them, there's a good chance their irongrip won't drop. (Relevant to your second question.)

>Blackjack higher success rate possibly? Or perhaps he didn't
>have garotte? (I'm not a thief expert.)

Garotte is a much higher success rate, but only if one goes down the path a ways. Its success rate improves as one takes more binder skills. This, I assume, is to discourage people from just going up to garotte for a high success ko, and then stopping. When binders first went in, I did that several times just for the high success KO. It's been toned down a bit since then, but still the highest (active) KO rate next to inhaled KO poison (KO drink/food poison is, near as I can tell, 100% success, but, of course, much trickier to pull off).


>
>I often think about ways of killing uber ap's, and one I
>always thought had a chance is to bind the ap, but then
>instead of attacking on the first set of bindings, ko them
>again when needed, rebind, and wait for irongrip to drop. I
>think if you don't ko and rebind them, there's a good chance
>their irongrip won't drop. (Relevant to your second
>question.)


My personal favorite way to kill any uber character other than an undead. KO, recite scroll of water breathing on sleeping victim. drag under water. Recite scroll of dispel magic on victim. Wait 2 hours. loot corpse.

Then there's always the classic, Plant PWK potion on wakeful victim. Mind Control poison, suggest quaff potion. Loot corpse.

As a poisoner, you can also go with long-duration KO (I think 10 hours is the most I've ever seen), followed by crimson scourge scroll, plague scroll, famish scroll, major malison scroll, poison scroll, curse scroll, blindness scroll. If you have any extra time, you can always stack the plague scrolls until certain that victim's str is at 3, then a couple hours before KO wears off, mind control poison, wait for echo that forget effect has kicked in, then energy drain x3 scroll (there are at least two I can think of with level 51 energy drain), flee (hoping you can survive at least a few rounds to recover from recite lag). This should pretty thoroughly drain nearly anyone of mana and movement. Be sure to use your time wisely and steal any potential methods of escape from inventory. The blindness will prevent use of containers. For that extra dose of insult to injury, leave them one piece of food soaked in Emetic poison, for the moment when blindness wears off, if they live that long.

This last I've never been able to successfully pull off because of over-zealous ALLIES who don't realize the enemy is already ****ed as long as they don't get wakened before the end of the KO timer. Ally sees helpless enemy, swoops in and attacks. Wakes victim, who promptly flees because he still has movement left, then teleports because he didn't yet have a forget effect from mind control poison.

nt

Poisoner thieves can be uber-narsty though if the player is creative.

>Garotte is a much higher success rate, but only if one goes
>down the path a ways. Its success rate improves as one takes
>more binder skills. This, I assume, is to discourage people
>from just going up to garotte for a high success ko, and then
>stopping. When binders first went in, I did that several times
>just for the high success KO. It's been toned down a bit since
>then, but still the highest (active) KO rate next to inhaled
>KO poison (KO drink/food poison is, near as I can tell, 100%
>success, but, of course, much trickier to pull off).


1) Do you know if you can keep someone incapacitated for a long time only with garotte?

2) Do you know if the success rate of garotte increases if we use (in second hand) the rope sold as furniture in Hamsah Thief guild?

>1) Do you know if you can keep someone incapacitated for a
>long time only with garotte?

Not sure what you mean by "keep someone incapacitated for a long time" so can't answer this question.

>2) Do you know if the success rate of garotte increases if we
>use (in second hand) the rope sold as furniture in Hamsah
>Thief guild?

It was always my assumption that was the case, but honestly, it's been so long since I played a binder, I really can't remember any more. The rope either increases success rate, or just boosts skill %, and it's been so long, I don't remember.

I was never a big fan of binders because I always felt like once you had them all trussed, and bound and whatnot, and then began the killing process, the bindings always seemed to break way too fast for the amount of time and effort needed to place them, and my foes always escape.

I found a much more deadly strategy to be full poisoner with bindings up to bindlegs. KO with inhaled poison (can last much longer than garrotte with the proper ingredients), gag (to prevent calling for help), blindfold to prevent viewing inventory, bindlegs, bindhands to prevent untying oneself after waking, mind control poison and wait for Forget effect to kick in, then fear poison your sleeping victim and knife the crap out of them while they flee instantly on the knife. With legs bounds, it drains movement super fast until they have no movement left, and with instant flee off the knife, there is no time for the bindings to break. Doesn't take long for them to be drained of movement like that. If they try to run away off the first knife, it just drains movement that much faster until they're stuck. You can even take it one step further by waking them with an emetic grenade (or hitting the emetic grenade before you even knock them out) to prevent any recovery of movement/mana. With a blindfold on, and stealing their inventory potions, they won't be using any items to escape, and with a Forget effect from mind control poison, they won't be casting/communing to escape. Then it's just a matter of being able to survive whatever melee damage they can dish out.

>Not sure what you mean by "keep someone incapacitated for a
>long time" so can't answer this question.


I mean unconscious. I think the sleep timer goes on for 4 hours and I wonder how long one stays unconscious after being garotted?

Maybe that's why the guy I was talking about on my first message used blackjack? if garotte doesn't last 4 hours, maybe blackjack last longer and you can keep on blackjacking someone after the 4 hours timer to keep him unconscious (or incapacitated) for a very long time? Something I see you could do using KO inhaled poison...

There are a couple of hours after it wears off that you can't be garrotted again?

with either Garrotte or Blackjack. I'm pretty sure they both have the same duration.

Regarding KO poison, I don't think the anti-KO timer starts counting down until the poison wears off. I could be wrong. If I am, in fact, wrong, I guarantee you that the first time someone abuses that, it'll get changed.

But you can combine ko and bind to hold someone for a huge length of time.

Also I've had someone perpetually hold me in sleep.

>But you can combine ko and bind to hold someone for a huge
>length of time.
>
What do you mean by "hold someone"? when someone is binded, he cannot move or escape?

When you tie someone, they cannot walk or unbind themselves. They can also be dragged, but there's a chance that dragging them will start combat. If you truss someone, they can then be dragged with zero chance of starting combat. Truss lasts for about 6 hours I think, so if combined with KO, you can KO someone, bind hands, bind legs, then wait until KO is almost done, and then tie and truss them. Then KO ends and the person wakes up, but unable to take any actions, just as though caught in a ranger's snare. By the time truss is about to wear off, you can then KO them again if you're waiting for the duration of their protections to wear off of them (or, for crimson scourge/plague from a scroll to drain their mana/movement further.

>Number 3: You can't raise strength above racial max, so not
>sure what you are asking here. Pretty sure your strength
>capped at the max is important. Guessing your size might be
>too (so enlarge could potentially help?)


How do you think going one size up would help? Does it modify strength or something else?