This seems like a pretty big nerf to the advantages of being a outlander muter. From an 'in game' perspective it doesn't make sense that 'hiding' in the woods would be difficult or impossible while you are flat/unseen. Is this really so 'OP' that it needs to be changed in a game where you have things like Emperor Lich running amuk? I'm personally bummed because Outlander muter was on my 'to do' list.

Outtie transmuter can locate his prey in duo, chameleon, spell and wand up completely unseen, then step up to victim and attack.

Thieves, assassins, and rangers all will be visible, even if only for an instant, from time to time every log in.

It's not like this nerfs the combo, either, they just might now need to consider taking the duo edges to reduce lag of popping out.

Hey, I loved Grippledank and I'm a fan of the current Nightreaver, but having this be on par with every other stealth class seems more than fair.

If this change makes you think outlander transmuters are now pointless, you probably shouldn't be playing CF at all.

I never said that outlander muter was pointless, I merely said I was bummed by the nerf - please don't decide how I think/feel.

I think there was a muter Empire recently that showed that with zero cabal powers they are still pretty tough. So with everything else outlander get, you'll still wreck the joint.

You implied that there is now no point to them when you said it was on your to do list. Was is the key word there. Don't say things like that if you're going to get testy when people respond logically.

All I can think to say is that not every change is made because we think something is "OP" and that if this change moves you from "I want to play an Outlander transmuter soon!" to "Well #### that ####." then you're doing your credibility as a giver of feedback a huge disservice.

I still want to play one, the bummed part comes from having put in the role/desc work already and reading about the change afterwards.

I agree that being able to call chameleon from duo and then vis duo is a great boon to outlander muter. Nightwalkers are also a huge boon to scarab muters (as are any pet/charmie to non outlander muters), progging lightforge staff is a good addition to a fort muter.

The main appeal of going Outlander for me is the added 'stealth' that comes from chameleon - if not for balance may I inquire as to why this change was made? I'm just trying to understand the rationale for what (seems) to me to be a huge nerf to Outlander muter.

Clearly, you meant "balancing" when you said "huge nerf." I imagine it will be easier for everyone to understand your commentary now that I have corrected that for you.

That of all the powers scarab or scion have or have had over the years, you pick nightwalker and say it is huge boon.

Nightwalker really isn't all that wonderful. It's nice, but nothing special. Chamo duo is something special.

If you picked some other power, like volley, or despoil, then I might actually agree with you. But people keep picking nightwalker which just isn't special.

Mind you, I haven't had a nightwalker since my Muter scion. Nightwalker damage (assuming they still claw causing bleeding and acid blast at night)is nothing to shrug off. You can also use them to tank for you once you get neuro. Freeze someone up, flee and return=poof nightwalker tank. In fact, I remember a scion orc who used to use his nightwalker for fallback - which was really awesome.

Not to mention they are great for chasing sneaky folks, because of their re-engagement and tracking like a conjie servitor (gives you a chance to run in and neuro some fool while he's trying to flee).

My scion shaman love love loved nightwalkers summon+aggro nightwalker is nice for the reasons above.

And I'll agree with you that the stealth enhancement provided by going outlander on a muter is awesome. And, in my opinion it should be! since you are giving up the use of any bought preps + charmies/pets to get it.

I just don't see why this particular thing was "something special" as you put it. Lich with Emperor powers? now that - is "something special".

As a muter I was always happy to be tanking.

Thing is, with emperor lich I know what I'm dealing with so can usually take countermeasures.

With a muter that never has to appear on where...? Pants down time.

That of all the powers scarab or scion have or have had over the years, you pick nightwalker and say it is huge boon.

Nightwalker really isn't all that wonderful. It's nice, but nothing special. Chamo duo is something special.

If you picked some other power, like volley, or despoil, then I might actually agree with you. But people keep picking nightwalker which just isn't special.