So recently we've been seeing a spate of fairly vague Greenways/Creed roles on empowerment characters. I figured I'd give some tips for any empowerees seeking Greenways empowerment. As well as an Imm perspective.

Listed in "help pagan roleplay" Greenways religions are suggested to take the following form:

- Follow an inactive deity
- Follow a defunct nature deity
- Adopt animistic/pantheistic beliefs
- Define a tribal or clan-based religion to which your particular
character is familiar.

Furthermore..

If choosing Pagan roleplay you are required to have a clear role entrythat outlines your character's beliefs succinctly. Characters who fail to do so are ineligible.

..And upon that foundation, we will discuss what I have (generally) observed to work, as well as what does not.

1) Define your religion properly.

Seriously I cannot stress this enough. I'm generally willing to go the extra mile with players if they want to take a non-standard empowerment route. However, if I cannot figure out what the religion *is* I cannot figure out how to approach it RP-wise.

General questions you should probably be asking yourself:

- What sphere(s) does my God/Religion govern over?
- What background does my God/Religion have?
- How does my God/Religion manifest itself in terms of worship?
- Are there any constraints on my character's behavior as a result?

For instance.. is your Religion Sphere Death? If so, why? Are they a forgotten god? Are they some other type of powerful supernatural entity? Is their religion in a state of decay, or are they imported from a distant land? Are they worshipped by a cult? What appeases your god- is it blood sacrifice?

Ideally you will want enough detail (preferably in a single role entry) that an Immortal can pick it up and run with it. It does not need to be extremely long as an entry. In fact, a short and compact role entry is better. However there should be the bare bones for someone to gauge whether you are following a religion properly, and enough to get creative with, should the Imm choose to do so.

Not all of the above needs to be actively fleshed out and some space for creativity is good, but anything pertinent should be there. Note: If you fail to mention something and the Immortal running your empowerment fails to take the religion in your anticipated direction it is an issue of (poor) communication.

2) Make a single role entry outlining the religion.

This bears stating again. Ideally, also make it clear that this is Greenways especially if your sphere and/or prays might be confused with an existing wizlist religion. (For instance, you are a sphere Truth shaman who refers to your religion as "Father" via pray. This is a recent in-game scenario. Obviously said religion was easily confused with a Scarabaeus empoweree.)

3) Greenways roles emulating the existing Theran religion system are (probably) more likely to get empowerment...

While I would, and have, empowered at least one broadly animalistic (conceptual) Greenways religion. I suspect that operating within the bounds of an existing player/god type religion system is the easiest to approach from the perspective of the staff. That is to say "Distinct immortal being/thing empowering an applicant."

4)...But taking existing dead Wizlist religions is probably a bad idea.

It is recommended that you do not pick a defunct religion from the past Theran pantheon, if you want any immteraction. For instance, claiming you are a priest or priestess of Khasotholas, or Qaledus puts the CF Imms in a tricky position for several reasons.

Firstly you're not going to get a Khaso or Qaledus style immteraction. That fact alone makes it a daunting prospect from an Imm perspective. Secondly, Imms do not want to tread on the toes of other Imms where immteraction is concerned. This extends to past Immortals. As far as I am (personally) concerned, past religions are proprietary material which belongs to the original authors.

There are ways around this however. If you like a past Imm religion, take some of the general themes which you like and leave the specifics (such as name, or heraldry/tattoo) out of the equation. Put your own personal spin on it. It allows the Immortal to deviate from the expected RP some without breaking any past CF lore.

Feel free to discuss the material within this post below, and if you have any feedback related to Greenways experiences, I'd be curious to hear it as I like the general notion of the idea.

nt

I gotta say I loved my Greenways empowerment through Alanabra. From looking back at my roles, I see the high points and low points you touch on here.

Here is a link to my PBF that I just picked up so if anyone is looking for guidance on Greenways rather than just a Custom Empowerment might be able to use as an outline. You can piece together the timeline of the roles with Imm Comments to get a pretty good picture of my Greenways Empowerment.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=54015&mesg_id=54015&page=

It was not until my 4th role (with the first 3 providing a background) that I hit on your Point 2, Make a single post outlining the religion. I feel that as soon as I did this, it cleared away my role 3 (which relied heavily on Amaranthe's defunct religion and highlighting your 4th Point) and allowed for Verathi to pick up my empowerment and run with it. As soon as I did this, I was empowered and the character took on a whole new life.

One thing that I realized can be a pro or con to Greenways is the randomness and limited nature of Immteraction. Out of no where, Verathi came down with some awesome interpretation of my role, at the least expected moments. This is kinda like winning the lottery, and had me continuing to play, until further empowerment. At the end of Alanabra's time before my deletion I was still having a blast, and had I had one more slight moment of direction from my Sponsor Imm, I might have kept playing with just greatly reduced hours.

Other than that, Greenways gave me a ton of leeway on how to interpret my Religion, rather than approaching an Imm in their shrine for guidance. I felt this a rather freeing experience over my previous interactions with Strienat at Yllonis.

I loved Greenways and would suggest keeping it for those people who really put in the effort to studiously look at CF lore and make their own slice of it.

A final Addendum, I am not the player of Andrlos, but know him in real life, so I was able to look back at his PBF, helpfiles, the Outlander Creation Stones, and other in game sources to cobble together this religion that I had a blast playing.

Tue Jun 30 10:06:58 2015 by 'Verathi' at level 20 (13 hrs):
I have picked this one up for custom empowerment. I spoke to them as second to Ulun-Joheem, one of their pack and tasked them with building up those loyal to the ways of the Hunt.

You did really well with this character to get custom empowered at 13 hours and full empowered by 64 hours. Well done!

One word and you undid my whole post!!

This begs the question, What is the Imms perspective of the difference between a "Custom" and "Greenways" Empowerment?

Cause to my perspective, my empowerment and role was everything Greenways should have been.....

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=60942&mesg_id=60944&page=

It's still a bit confusing but I think Alanabra falls under the same "custom empowerment" as Zhabala.

I have done some research on successful Greenways Empowerees i.e. Lilyth, and can see her role corresponding Imm Comments that speak to her Creed. And yet I am still a bit confused how I fell out of the scope of Greenways.

That said, I would need Verathi's input as to why it was said this was a custom empowerment rather than a Greenways. I had created Alanabra's role with the intention of it being a Greenways empowerment. Was it my lack of Raltevio's first point of a "Clearly Defined Religion" that disqualified me from Greenways? I thought I had come back and addressed point 1 and 2 in my 4th Role Entry (where the first 3 were religion and character background.)

I know that originally I had issues with point 4, making it seem like I was an Amaranthe follower, but Verathi cleared that up with me prior to engaging in Empowerment RP, and that I was using Amaranthe's defunct religion as a starting point to helping find Joheem.

Sorry for hijacking this thread with my personal experience, but I am still looking for how I was not technically "Greenways" when all along I thought I was. Thank you to everyone trying to clarifiy what is, and is not, as I hope this will help future Greenways/Custom Empowerees be successful.

Isn't greenways, just a form of customer empowerment that has some general guidelines to make it easier for both the player and the IMM(s) involved creating structure? This is contrasted with the completely unstructured means allowed by customer empowerment in general. Both, though are custom religions created by the player without an active IMM.

a specific subset of broader unconventional empowerment routes that have already been fleshed out by Amaranthe.

That is to say:
All greenways are "unconventional" empowerments (it is under Creeds), but not all unconventional empowerments are greenways.

Custom empowerment is a religious goal which tends to fall outside that scope. Though many of the tips I have posted initially will probably help with both.

In the latter case (custom empowerment), there is no implicit contract between the staff and you, as the player, to run with the concept. As such they tend to be trickier and require a lot more thought from the player, I think. They are, in essence, truly in no-man's land.

I'd still take on a custom empowerment, but I'd probably need to dig the concept.

PS: And while I'm happy to discuss it in general terms here, or by email, I'd rather not get into role specifics. That is to say, if players have a neat idea for a custom concept, I wouldn't be interested in picking through their role entry outside game and amending it to something that I like via email. Having to read 20-40 roles personally a month is enough to make me not want to open that can of worms. I probably wouldn't sleep.

I know what they are, I've played them both. I was trying (and failed!) to make a point that I don't think it really matters if an IMM refers to it as custom empowerment in the IMM comments on a PBF instead of calling it greenways. It is not like they play out differently from a players perspective assuming the player has been empowered.

However, what you guys might want to consider is creating a helpfile on custom empowerments and including the some of structure that is part of greenways, i.e. the part about writing a detailed role entry explaining the religion and then scrapping the creed idea altogether. As an experiment it doesn't seem like it was going anywhere and seems like it isn't needed if the generalized custom empowerment route was made more robust. This would also clear up any confusion players have trying to distinguish between the two types of custom empowerments.

So now I'm slighly confused. I was going to say that I thought Helfinu Shino'Kage was a greenway type, but perhaps it was just a custom.

At any rate here is a link to the roles and another blurb I wrote about how I came up with a greenway/custom religion.

Helfinu PBF:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=50842&mesg_id=50842&listing_type=search

Gameplay post from last year:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=56808&mesg_id=56825&page=

I'm not interested in doing empowerment / RP post-mortems, but you're welcome to email imms@carrionfields.com and see if anyone bites, maybe even whoever interacted with you.

I just can't say whether or not it was considered "greenway" or a "custom empowermeny".

Either way, it was still a successful empowerment.

From the thread itself it's quite obvious that different imms interpret Greenways and custom religions differently. There're no rules cut in stone, so you'd better keep it in mind.

Firstly, thanks for this advice. It will help people in the future I am sure of it.

Okay so I will preface this by stating that Zhabala is the only Greenways I know about however it is a very recent example.

He gets 1k RoleXP and gets empowered at level 21 (32 hours)

Fri Feb 20 13:40:02 2015 at level 21 (32 hrs):
Empowered by Belial to level 30 <PK: 0-3>

Tue Feb 17 11:21:37 2015 by 'An Immortal' at level 18 (6 hrs):
An Immortal added 1000 exp for: We're weak and often get picked on in the encampment in which we were born. No one knows, but we have a natural healing ability as we pray over sore people at night. Our home is razed and we flee to the surface.

Fri Feb 20 01:13:43 2015 by 'An Immortal' at level 21 (31 hrs):
An Immortal added 400 exp for: More about whom we envy and why. Also, we want to be better than others and eventually be Emperor.

At this point in time he has three role entries. None of which seem to appropriately address your points 1) and 2)

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=53234&mesg_id=53256&page=1

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=53234&mesg_id=53257&page=1

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=53234&mesg_id=53258&page=1

Has the Greenways path changed since Zhabala? There are people that have put in double this time, triple the role entries, more RoleXP, more roles that address your points 1) and 2), yet were left with nothing regarding empowerment. How did Zhabala get an Immortal to roll with him?

Immortals seem to think Greenways is a free ticket. It seems anything but and it is a really draining and horrible experience IMHO, to the point where real life gets thrown into chaos by empowerees playing odd personal hours to match a "high player count" in a vain attempt to find an Imm to thrown down some pity.

This game should be about fun. Just my 2 cents.

Zhabala was not empowered under the umbrella of a Creed, of which there is currently only one: the Greenways / Tharersian Spirituality. Instead, they were an example of plain old "custom empowerment" which is and always has been a big ol' dice roll.

The Greenways provides a formula for certain types of characters to pursue empowerment without appealing to a specific Immortal and their religion, but a character like Zhabala (evil healer) does not fit that paradigm.

Both Greenways and "custom empowerment" are risky propositions in that they rely on a random Immortal to get involved, but the former does lend itself to slightly higher expectations as long as the player correctly follows the advice laid out in the help files. The custom route, on the other hand, puts the ball entirely in the player's court and forces them to convince us as to why we should get involved.

As a final note: Greenways is currently the only codified Creed and thus Paladins, most Shaman and certain healers likely cannot quality as Greenways roles under any circumstances. Since isn't likely to change any time soon.

I really have no idea about the distinction between Greenways and custom empowerment. Are you able to try and explain it to a 5 year old?

Disclaimer: the Creed stuff wasn't something I helped create or something I've taken much of a personal interest in since it went in.

Creeds, which again, the Greenways is one of, provide a documented framework for character to follow. They come with restrictions related to class, sphere or other things, and demand that roles meet certain criteria.

Custom empowerment is merely a player choosing to do whatever they want and hoping that an Immortal finds it interesting and plays along. This route tends to involve a much higher bar since it otherwise would be much more of a "free ticket" (as you put it) than something like Greenways where more of the work has been done by us up front and where certain aspects of the proposition are dictated by us prior to any interaction even beginning.

That's my take. Other staff may have other thoughts.

Greenways was, and is, to an extent, something of an experimental process. I've given my advice here because (I suspect being a relatively new addition) having an idea as a player, of what an Immortal might look for is probably a good thing.

> Has the Greenways path changed since Zhabala? There are people that have put in double this time, triple the role entries, more RoleXP, more roles that address your points 1) and 2), yet were left with nothing regarding empowerment. How did Zhabala get an Immortal to roll with him?

Part of the tricky thing with Greenways is that it does require an inkling of interest from an Immortal to empower you. In essence the player is putting forth a bid, or a proposal and hoping an Immortal will see the merit. Hence me communicating above what I personally find interesting. Note: This probably goes doubly for custom empowerment as Umi pointed out.

> Immortals seem to think Greenways is a free ticket. It seems anything but and it is a really draining and horrible experience IMHO, to the point where real life gets thrown into chaos by empowerees playing odd personal hours to match a "high player count" in a vain attempt to find an Imm to thrown down some pity.

There are some benefits, and some demerits to the Greenways (or indeed the custom religion system) generally. The first being a willing Immortal. Another being the chance of disjointed immteractions.

The benefits (for a creatively minded and role-oriented player) are the ability to build a character which is not based on a predefined religion. Indeed, for a very interesting role, it could mean more immteraction as technically you'd have more coverage from different Imms. It also skirts the issue some might encounter with inactive or semi-active Imms.

As to free ticket. I don't really see that as the case. I see it as a different route to empowerment, outside the typical routine. The system has different upsides and downsides as a result.

Edit: Furthermore, people may have misgivings with empowerment in general, though that's not the debate today. It does require a modicum of effort beyond what most classes involve. A pretty good way to not get empowered in any sense is to write a single line with a vague religion in a role. Not roleplay. Guild sit and not do anything. Empowerment around those circumstances would be a free ticket, I think. Empowerment classes tend to have a pretty versatile/rugged build and decent power threshold to adjust for the "step it up in the RP department" (empowerment) system.

But of course, this is the point of my discussion. I'm curious to both improve player understanding from the Imm perspective (based on observed trends), and see what comes back from players.

If this subject isn't addressed, players who are otherwise deserving of empowerment might be disappointed. I'd rather minimize that personally.

First of all, I'd chose Envy, and I went to pray at Enlilth shrine, as he wasnt listed (at that time) as dormant. So I'd figured hey, let me try this.

I prayed quite a bit, and got no answer. So I send up a general pray, asking if Enlilth was around and was told he was dormant... DOH!

So, I went with it, and changed the prays from general Enlilth to more "Dark Lords of Envy hear my prayers" ... Eventually Belial stepped forward, asking for a bargain and I just rolled with it. I got luckly, and I still dont know know who Belial was of the imms, but I owe him a big thanks!

/Zhabala

Of course, I deleted around lvl 25-30 and felt like a real asshole for wasting the Imm's time.

nt