Real life happens, I get it. I figured as much, that Nep had checked out, given the lack of interaction and posting from both him and his wife...

... but pass on the torch. When people play this game, a lot, to have something like ST inaccessible because you won't just let the decision be made by someone else is lame. When things like the cabal quest or fixing this limitation to getting in ST, or even followers of Gods who check out, other Imms should be able to grab on. It's a team effort. If there's not enough of them, get some more Imms.

Honestly it's one of the things preventing me from coming back again. I've been burned by trying to coordinate trips to the Inferno (which ironically the Imms seem to let slide recently), so ST and the Shadow Plane are really the only final places. ST requires so much, I've done a lot, but to get an Archmage down really requires groups - groups of people who have "passed the bar". Good luck getting that done. Shadow Plane might be a better shot, but I know Sacer isn't checked around as much either, so investing into that could be a wash.

Sorry, this became a little vent - just frustrated with where the game is going. Don't get me started on mobs redirecting abilities being added to the game.... /rant

Uncle. You people are a pain in the ass.

I was able to get ahold of Daevryn and get permission to change the Silent Tower quest(s) to consider the sum of one's Imm XP and Role XP where originally only Imm XP was considered, making them functionally identical to how things worked before the changes this past December.

Now get off my lawn.

I know it might seem like something silly or small, but it really does matter and taking the time to do this will make me, for one, enjoy the game a little more.

See, we're not all bad

Thank you so much for looking into something like that, it means a lot to a lot of the players, even if it seems like a small thing it's really not. It's a big attraction to CF and I will certainly be looking forward to going there in the future.

I don't really care either way regarding ST however this post made me laugh. Thanks Umi.

This a very good thing I know it will bring back some players. This something that I have not been able to do but is now possible. Thank you Umion and Daevryn.

Dont make me play another imperial healer just to explore that place again...

But THANKS!

The way parts of CF is designed reminds me of classic project management in large corporations. You inject tollgates in projects to ensure that the project is on the right path

For example the imms don't want priests of their religion to be clueless so they set up a tollgate at the start of the character and then to ensure that it does not go awry later you have more tollgates to get the full extent of their powers. The advantage is that the character and cf confirms to how the IMM wants cf to be played. The disadvantage is of course that your character become reliant on that particular imm and that you need to invest hours to passing those tollgates.

In Thera you would assume that the Gods never sleep but that is not really the case in real life so if your times does not match or your IMM is taking an unannounced break from cf you can end up spending 40 hours of gaming time just waiting before you delete. 40 hours is quite a lot these days for a lot of players (more than some would invest in a bought AAA game).

I feel that CF has moved more and more towards putting content behind tollgates that needs immortal review of characters; cabal powers, edges and areas. And that system is just made for people falling through the cracks or limiting the way you play CF than a more sandbox world would.

I would love if CF went towards a more "Ask for forgiveness instead of permission" style sandbox.

That you could type "deity Baerinika" to automatically get empowered and become a follower of Baer because that is a role you want to play in CF. Instead of checking what imms seems to be active in your playtimes (for example European early evenings) by checking forums, wizlist and immortal comments on premium battlefield posts and then create a role if any imm seem to available. And if the IMM wants do an interview they could always call their followers their shrine at any time for a talk.

Or that more Cabals went towards an Empire approach to induction. That you would be inducted as an Applicant into Battle when you have 1 mage kill and when you have 10 you would become a full member (or if an officer promotes you). Same with Maran or you could have downing of enemy cabal items as a measurement or whatever. Instead of ending up in a situation where you are rolling a battle applicant but the commander plays when it is 3AM for you.

While it might result in some characters getting in that we don't see "worthy" right now it would probably result in even more diversity in roles, cabals and good characters just because they don't fizzle out when they cannot find their imm or leader for that standard interview they have been doing for 10-15 years now.

And holy #### I went off topic there but the same is true for Silent. In an attempt to control how cf is played we have a tollgate made to remove any "throw away chars" (or disliked players I guess) chance of entering and exploring.

And the problem with this tollgate is that the role I might want to play might not be the one that generates enough imm xp so I can participate in the area. So instead of playing that brooding non-religious Maran assassin that mostly speaks in single syllables (or maybe not a char outside the cabal wars) my chances would be so much higher if I played a loud mouth dwarf warrior with some endearing quirks/phobias that follows an active level 54 imm.

So to sum up I would question if the advantage of all these immortal tollgates really outweighs all the disadvantages these days when most players are getting older. Putting more power and responsibility in the hands of the players might be a good thing and those who play when there are 5 other players on might not feel that most of the MUD is unavailable for them.

Perfectly stated - the unannounced breaks have killed several characters for me over the years, and we're still in the mindset that these gates need to exist. What would really happen if ST was suddenly open to everyone? The Inferno is open to anyone and I assure you it chews through people plenty that try and make these "throwaway characters" who go solo exploring. If anything, the mob redirection changes made it much harder for solo conjurers to explore (maybe the only redeeming quality out of the whole mess, but it really wasn't a problem).

I have to admit too that I'd follow a lot more different Imms if I knew it was "ask for forgiveness instead of permission" style. I know some Imms aren't always around, or have conflicting times, and I like their religion but know the chances of empowerment are too low to invest the several hundred hours I'd be willing to put into a character "on a chance".

Anyways, this guy stated it best.... just wish something would come of all these suggestions.

What would happen if cf was open to everyone?

We've seen. Throw aways then info sharing.

ST is not hell.

who are like "MINE, MINE, MINE" all the time.

Info sharing already happens, to a significant extent. Those who want to play
the game like that will _always_ be able to and you can't do anyhing about it,
but merely throw more obstacles in their way that end up hurting the entire
mud more than the groups you are trying to "control".

Here's the thing. My current can go into st by doesn't. My chars for the last several years haven't been able to.

In light of this, perhaps you can explain how I'm saying "mine mine mine"? If anything I'm the one respecting the wishes of the creator and you are the one trying to put yours ahead of his.

Unlike hell which involves a lot of fighting, st involves a lot of figuring stuff out. If you brute force it with throwaways or just being given info the you are getting the rewards without having earned them.

Consequently the area got shut.

If people could respect the wishes of the guy that created it, it would stay open and be accessible to all. My point is we've seen they won't, and that's why things are not the way you want them, when once they were.

Name me some things that would "break" the game if they got out of ST more often. Most of the Treasure items are already out, held by the knowledgeable elite players. Most of the "Reward" items, are also out. Seriously, name something that would change the game drastically if the doors were open. There's no way some "throwaways" are taking down an Archmage so what exactly do people fear.

Even the items that are still not easy to get (some scrolls/staves), would do absolutely nothing to landscape of the game - at all. Just because the Inferno is open, doesn't mean the items in the shops of Dis are everywhere. The good ones are usually in circulation, the rest aren't.

Also, you're in complete denial if you don't think info sharing still exists. I'd say a decent amount of the community is wired through other channels besides Dios and these main boards.

Name me some things that "break" the game because you aren't good enough to get into ST?

You're the one arguing for change. You need to do the convincing. Hammering the same old points won't help you, so why do you try? Come up with other arguments and you're likely to at least get new answers.

>Name me some things that "break" the game because you aren't good enough to get into ST?

If Toraks Fortress gnome ranger with a role contest winner role and almost only positive IMM comments cannot enter Silent after 190 hours of game time then I feel that something is wrong. 190 hours is a lot of hours these days for a lot of people and let us say you play something that is not in a cabal/religious and in euro hours?

But back to the original question. Nothing breaks but people who are mostly interested in challenging themselves in PvE in CF are unlikely to play the game if the top end areas are unavailable. Same if you would for example remove the battle cabal; it would not break cf but some hardcore battle players might stop playing.

>If Toraks Fortress gnome ranger with a role contest winner role and >almost only positive IMM comments cannot enter Silent after 190 >hours of game time then I feel that something is wrong. 190 hours is >a lot of hours these days for a lot of people and let us say you >play something that is not in a cabal/religious and in euro hours?

I am indeed surprised a character as well played as that sounds didn't get in. What was the name of the character? Unless he requested good alignment pre-creation, I'd think a successful align change alone would come with enough xp.

I'd call foul play on that one, or a bad oversight. Isn't only like 1400xp or so to get in?

The only immexp I really got was from an event with Whisydan where I missed it by the tail end, but I put in enough effort that he gave me a pat on the back.

I was alignment changed to good, survived through having no spells and wrath vuln atop gnome vulns, then got a role contest win and was granted a secondary ranger path (animist). Then I became Maran, and then Marshall.

And yeah, at that rate, it would have been about 500 hours to get into ST. Kinda kills it for you when you're just waiting for something you can't control.

You got a whole second ranger path?

What was your original? Explorer? Please tell me it was. That would make one bad ass character. Talk about game breaking.

Nice job.

He was given animist path, but I do not think it was all of the spells and skills. It was not game breaking. He did a great job though. I did enjoy the time my character spent in his presence.

For what it's worth, Corzu only had two history comments that weren't related to some other specific "reward" (e.g., last name), which of course do not come with Imm XP as well.

One was a note that he'd won a RC, which he was rewarded separately for, and the other was a not a particularly positive comment.

He was xpadded twice for a total of 300 Imm XP.

Now, I didn't watch Corzu much and I can only make some rough assumptions, so that's what I'll do. In fact, I think we did this already a few weeks ago. My guess is that Corzu did not seek out "immteraction" or otherwise look for threads to pull, so to speak, as a mean of inspiring interaction and RP. From most accounts he RPd well enough, was a solid Maran and generally did his job, but his priorities were probably exploration, raiding and PK. That's great, but it limits the kinds of things you're going to get rewarded for and by whom (e.g., I don't pay much attention to that stuff and rarely xpadd for a "good kill", or whatever).

If my chief motivation were Silent Tower, I'd probably spend a lot of time doing religion stuff (chatting, preaching, etc.) and maybe try to coax some RP where I know I'm going to get visibility too, maybe by arranging something with some Heralds or through bard notes.

If you want my two cents, cabal leaders (at least the kind that aren't voted in), and thus Corzu, should probably get a pass on the Imm XP requirement. Unfortunately for all of us (if/when I ever play a mortal again, I sure as #### won't be getting that much Imm XP) I don't make those rules.

That's its own thing, you can make leader without even having a role.

The reason nobody can get into silent is because the immxp requirement was set when you could earn immxp from writing roles. The easy fix, to get back in line with the area authors intentions, would be to have the quest to enter trigger on accumulated immxp+roleexp, as that was the requirement when it was set.

Nobody really complained when role experience could go towards it.


Personally I am totally against having to suck up to imms to come even close to the requirement to get in. I didn't have a problem having to keep an updated role to meet the requirement though.

Because as implemented the original restriction was a very different one to the way it works following the immxp changes.

In fact, this change would be necessary to align with the functionality of the original restriction as implemented.

This is the primary disconnect, I think.

The staff doesn't think "sucking up" is necessary in order to meet the requirements to get into ST.

Some players think it is.

Nobody on the staff is advocating that silent is the way they think it should be, just that it's not them who gets to decide how it should be.

Baerinika checked out or disappeared is what honestly happened, and/or people thought I was gifted enough so immexp was off the table from other Imms. I've got my assumptions but I think Baer was gone (didn't even respond to my goodbye thread). I talked with everyone, constantly chatted up every visible Immortal, had some fun RP and banter in the multitude of fights I had (even throwing myself at that Imperial gang more than once), and tried to meet regularly with Baerinika but I was lucky to get a meeting once a month.

I know how to play immexp chars It completely depends on the Immortal in question and I also flew a bit too close to the sun. With an alignment change, an RC win, and leadership... people probably thought I was "covered".

Corzu was no less of an RP char than Danjuh+Lona the 2headed giant or Mubs the squirrel giant (both RC winners) or even Soviatos, my high priest who didn't talk much.

> If you want my two cents, cabal leaders (at least the kind that aren't voted in), and thus Corzu, should probably get a pass on the Imm XP requirement. Unfortunately for all of us (if/when I ever play a mortal again, I sure as #### won't be getting that much Imm XP) I don't make those rules.

That seems eminently reasonable. If the criterion is "some imm has looked at this character and decided he passes RP muster" then you might also include characters that are empowered to 51. Or, to be a little more strict, any character with an imm-given tattoo.

What % of "hard core" players are chiefly interested in PvE?

Not saying this is necessarily the case, but to what extent do the complaints over ST actually boil down to, "I already have more knowledge of ST than 90% of the player base and I really want to go mine the powerful gear that will give me a leg up in PK, but I can't because the area is closed to me."

I honestly don't know enough about Silent Tower to say what may or may not be problematic from a balance/mechanics standpoint if it were to become far more commonplace.

But I don't think that's really the issue.

I don't like the argument that players aren't entitled to CF and all that jazz, even though it is absolutely true. I try not to play that card, but the reality is that there are a tiny few contributions to CF for which the authors have requested we (players and staff) respect their wishes in regards to, and the staff has a tradition of honoring them. It's one way we get such amazing contributions like those in the first place. I don't necessarily disagree with many of the individual arguments presented on this subject (e.g., ST doesn't "fit" into modern CF, it shouldn't matter if the author is inactive/retired, etc.), but I support the fact that what I've described above sometimes trumps your opinion and mine in these very, very few instances.

Also, I appreciate the passion that players have for CF, be it the game in general or specifics areas, features or pieces of lore. It's one of the core reasons I continue to contribute my time to CF instead of to other things I enjoy, things that will actually make me money, etc. Unfortunately, as any game developer (commercial or non) will tell you, that passion does not singlehandedly dictate the direction of the game or its policy, or even reflect its best interests more often than not.

That's part of the reason st is not accessible to all.

And there's a difference btwn st and hell I thought you'd find obvious, which is that hell requires groups (generally) whereas st allows a lot to be done without groups.

Frankly the ooc group that just did hell didn't just want to explore. Most went and ganked with all that hell gear.

nt

All of my experiences as a player and a staff member support the thinking that your proposed way of doing things is a much, much bigger headache. I'd rather have someone occasionally fall through the cracks on Maran or a tattoo or whatever else than have everything come easy and/or automatically and have to deal with the tantrums that come as a result of someone being held to reasonable standards.

If more people could handle being held accountable for their RP (or lack thereof) and were willing to respond to legitimate IC punishment, being told no, being asked to wait, having their behavior corrected, etc. by saying to themselves, "Oh crap, I goofed. I totally deserved to be made Anathema...", for example, I think your way would work. Unfortunately, whatever comes quick/easy to most players tends to be taken as their birthright and #### us if we muddy their "fun" with role-play or the consideration of other people's fun, amongst other things.

I also think you're exaggerating. It's not as if CF has transformed entire portions of the game into DLC or something. Again, there is exactly one <1> area in CF that requires, indirectly, immortal "review" to gain entry to. Likewise, Fortress is quite literally the only cabal for which some of its powers require being promoted by an immortal, a process that I think works well enough. And edges, well.. I'm tired of repeating myself on that one.

1: or maybe two, I honestly have no clue what the deal is with Plane of Shadow. My understanding is that if mortals cannot enter it without help now, they will be able to when it's "done".

I don't think there would be more drama if you made empowerment and cabal induction reachable by a player himself. And if an immortal is active then they can snoop and do impromptu discussions about their religion with their follower. The drama you mention is generally after people have been inducted and those that tend to create drama are usually those that play for 6 hours a day and have no problem passing their 40th battle interview.

I think this would be a lighter workload on the imms and leaders and while I'm sure there have been moments where the actual induction/empowerment process has caused drama I feel that most of it is because the imm/leader is unavailable. Currently the system is designed with certain tollgates or bottlenecks without any requirements for availability (naturally since all are volunteers). This means that someones character progression could suddenly come to a halt (or never take off) just because the imm that they are dependent on is swamped at work and does not log in for a month. And if you as a player have a fulltime job + family and few gaming hours I can understand how that kind of game design can be frustrating.

About Silent Tower; it is not that big of a deal for some and for others it would be a bigger deal because it is one of the two biggest challenges when it comes to areas. It is a very cool area and I would love to spend more time there trying to figure out stuff.

About Maran; mostly just feel that it is newbies and people who play and weird times that (possibly) get screwed and that it is pretty unecessary. From a player perspective it is just a hurdle you have to jump through to get your full powers to fight all the others who most likely have full powers. And that hurdle is again dependent on imms.

Edges; They are probably in a fine place now.

All in all I think making things more accessible (or reachable by yourself) in CF does not mean it becomes a nice place. It would be a big shift in mentality though; more towards Eve Online and less D&D with a dungeon master.

That Umiron takes the stance on this he does. I'm also glad he shares it despite the flaming he gets for it.

I loathe him for his censoring ####, but at least he is trying to keep the spirit of CF alive. These "tollgates" affect such a tiny portion of the game, that it's kind of silly it's even talked about. CF is a game of many choices and themes. You can choose to be a character that doesn't require any immortal attention at all, or you can choose to roll the dice on something a bit more GM-centric. You have the choice already and there is no tollgate.

"I don't think there would be more drama if you made empowerment and cabal induction reachable by a player himself." - I think you're batty if you think the drama queens around here won't throw a fit every time they lose a couple levels of empowerment. Some can handle it, and maybe you can (I don't know you), but rest assured the majority are too weak minded to not throw a hissy fit. The boards are filled with them.

Real life time constraints affecting the various participants in CF is also not a good reason to make such drastic changes. I read that point in a different post, not yours.

...empowerment is a small portion of the game. Not sure what game you're playing but empowerment is a hefty chunk of the game.

4 out of 17 classes require empowerment. That, by itself, could be considered a hefty chunk (it's still really not when you consider class options as well). However, that is not the whole point that is being argued.

What is being argued is that it's "too hard" to get empowerment. There are 13 classes for people the few people that can't easily get empowerment to play. They can still get empowerment, they might just have to put in a little extra work over someone who naturally plays somewhere on the wizlist.

For the most part, I simply don't buy that people have the difficulties they claim to. Yes, I'd believe it happens from time to time, but it's not like a string of 20 paladins just deleted after 50 hours because they couldn't find empowerment.

Anyway, still, very small portion of the game all things considered.

Here's how I see it:

Empowerment is optional because empowerment classes are optional.

Empowerment is not an impossible barrier for anyone. New, veteran, RP savvy or not, ESL, whatever., you can get empowered to 51. I wouldn't generalize that quite so much when it comes to virtues on a Paladin, but even things like shaman paths I'd say it holds true.

Sometimes, very rarely, empowerment fails. I can think of maybe two instances in the last year where I felt like someone did their due diligence and ended up getting boned by the system and they ultimately deleted. It happens and we're sorry. CF not being death row, we find this preferable to a system that is substantially weaker in the RP department.

I get that empowerment being unappealing to some people means they feel "left out" with respect to a handful of class options in CF. This is by design. If someone can make empowerment work and simply does not want to then that's fine, but we're not redesigning huge portions of the game because of that. The same logic applies to the core mechanics of conjurers, the practicing required of invokers, the randomness of shapeshifters, etc. Some of our many classes come with an inherent proposition that players need to be a certain amount of okay with in order to enjoy them and I'm okay with that.

A month ago (or so) I'd have sympathized a little more given the state of the wizlist but after adding a few new religions, I think we're in really good shape.

Lastly, I'm not going to assert that empowerment will never change. I can certainly see a future for CF where empowerment as-is stops making sense, but I think we're still a long way from that reality.

Why not do away with empowerment and have the immortal involvement part start with adding shaman paths and virtues instead?

The fact that it would break our class paradigm aside, I'd actually be okay with this from a purely mechanical/balance standpoint for paladins and shaman.

I would not be okay with empowerment not being required for healers, and probably druids too.

Ah right, I'll admit, I totally forgot about healers and druids when I posted that.

Well put... I'd like to see those changes. As a european player, and english not being my native language, I tend to struggle with both empowerment and imm exp sometimes.

Language can certainly be a barrier, but I think anyone who doesn't try or otherwise holds back because of it is doing themselves a disservice. I don't know if that's you or not, it was meant as a general statement.

I do sympathize with players whose play times don't fall during our (mostly American) norms. I'd love to have a bigger European presence both in the player base and the staff, but that's dreaming big. Despite having said that, I'm not willing to fundamentally change the game for the convenience of a minority, I'm afraid.

Just a few more responses, as I do read and think about what is posted.

1) Basic "Make empowerment easier and/or automatic."
-For everyone that asks for easier empowerment I can't help but ask.. have you tried it? I was always scared of this myself until I just choose an imm off the wizlist, read their helpfile, then went after it during their hours. It was surprisingly easy.
-As far as automatic empowerment, I am fully against this. If you don't play during my hours, how can I know if you represent me at all? What if you are auto empowered then go spouting made up dogma and I am never around to hear it? How can I ever give you loving/interaction/tattoo if I never see you? I will never be for this change nor do I ever see it happening.
-But Verathi, what if there is only X, Y, and Z immortal in my play times and I don't want to run any of their religions? Well, you don't HAVE to have a religion but if you really want one try making your own up. If you know an IMM that has pretty good presence in your hours, try sending them an email with a general outline for the religion and see if they have any interest. I will volunteer myself for this during my hours. Just remember, if you have an idea where you want this to go you should tell us otherwise we might lead it into left field.

2)Auto-induction into cabals.
-If you are having issues getting into the cabal you want because of hours and you have been at it for a while, send up a note to the cabal and the immortals of that cabal and see if that can get you going. We don't always know when leaders and applicants times aren't meshing. Taking it a step further, don't be afraid to play as an applicant for a while. This game does not begin at hero nor once you get into a cabal. The applicants that I see helping to defend/retrieve and are around a while generally get to talk to me if they are missing seeing a leader.
-I don't really see this changing. Each cabal is ran a little differently on purpose, they aren't cookie cutter platforms with just different powers (and would be lame/boring if they were).

3)ST is hard to get into.
-This has been said multiple times. There is no point in really discussing this as it is someones area that has control over the entrance qualifications.

I have had several empowered characters yes and often it is not difficult and other times I've been sitting at shrines and walked around emoting for a couple of weeks until I delete because it turns out the imm is not active at the moment. That gamble becomes less and less fun the older I become.

I know of course that it probably won't be changed as it has been this ways for so many years and a change would be a big change in how the staff sees the game.

The Gods would exists regardless if you are logged in or not. The players would drive the religion and while their God could manifest to punish/praise/tattoo it is not necessary for driving the religion forward. Of course this is more complicated these days as religions tends to become more and more complex and less up to interpretation of the players.

I question on how much that empowerment interview actually gives as it is generally very easy to pass them. And there are any core concepts they need to know you could always make an automatic quest in the shrine to get powers. Same with cabal interviews; at level X the applicant will be given a quest by the Destructor to answer some questions by the veterans. When they solve that quest they are members.

And of course people could speak to imms if they are not getting in to the cabal. Usually after some 100 hours and they play the same time as the imm in question (and the imm is active at the moment).

And where the game begins is not something you can state; it is up to the players what they get enjoyment from. For some it is exploring at hero, for others it is the leveling process and for some it could be pk from level 11-51. While all are required to start from level 1 and RP properly it might not be the reason they play.

Being to join cabals automatically by a quest or something would be way more newbie friendly as well.

Changes were made recently by the awesome Umiron to hopefully keep the wizlist a little better updated - but it is still likely that wizlist won't be perfect. All I can say is after a significant while of failing to meet up with your IMM, try notes/email to them and if that fails then try praying and asking the rest of us if it looks like it will happen. I have told people in the past praying for a certain imm that it wash highly unlikely it is going to happen.

I wish the other 99% of the game were fun for you, but if that isn't the case, I don't think telling Daev to get bent and messing with his area is really a strategy the staff wants to explore just for the sake of getting you (or anyone else) to play anyway. If anything, that would probably do us more harm than good in the long run.

FWIW, while I don't disagree that the bar of entry for ST could probably come down or that things like ST aren't especially fun (more so than the "other 99%" of the game), there are a good number of characters right now who meet the requirement and that aren't even very old characters. How are your Herald chops?

Just at a stage of annoyance is all, I really wanted to go to ST with Corzu... and I've had a few characters that couldn't. Just seems like the recent Imms I've chosen to follow don't hand out the immexp lately. It's a crap shoot, I don't think Corzu was any less of a RP effort than any other character I've done (if anything he was more so). I don't think I suggested for Daev to get bent, but I'm guessing your statement is worded to mean coming from everyone else on changing his area requirement. Other things, like the recent change for mobs to redirect abilities basically ruining several aspects of exploring for NO reason have just put a hamper on interest. (Seriously, did anyone consider the effect that'd have on places like ST and the Inferno? It made several fights basically impossible. Why was this change even implemented at all? Realism? The whole point of a tank... is to be a tank!)

Also, you keep saying "a good number of characters meet the requirement" - but it doesn't matter if your enemies have access. If I wanted to take some newbies from the Fortress, none of them have access. The only times I've ever been able to get into ST with others, it involved the Empire because generally better players (who generally, but not always, have more immexp) are part of the council. The same could be said about Scion. I think Xeneth couldn't even get a solid Imperial group to go this time and that's about the perfect storm conditions of players to do so. Archmages take groups of people who are friendly, capable, and knowledgeable enough to get into ST and meet the requirements to kill an Archmage so you're not banned for life (which is a very considerable amount of work and time)... which is basically not going to happen. I spent a good part of Soviatos' life trying to get stuff done in there and at most I had 2 players who could get in... and I spent half of my time discussing things with an enemy Scion. I'd be interested to hear of how many times 4 people were in ST at the same time... I'm guessing never. If the requirement to get in was lowered, people might actually learn how to do things so an Archmage kill could actually be attempted.

I've done Herald before, I can RP it out without being a pker... but I am generally an evil-aligned player for a lot of reasons (Inferno trips require you to be evil after X number of tries, there is better gear, generally more skilled players play on Team Evil, more fun RP for me, etc). With how much of a deadzone the Inn has been lately, not sure I could do that... it'd be like being a tribunal in Seantryn I thought of giving Tribunal a try since you seem present but I heard that they've been nerfed pretty heavily, even if they're at war right now. Maybe I'll get the itch but nothing is grabbing me at the moment.

In case you missed the memo there is a new Herald imm running around and the Inn has started to see a lot more life than in the past. There was I think 7-ish Heralds all on and kicking it at the Inn very recently

gr

You constantly present ideas and seem to have a drive to help make the game better. If you think that more imms would help alleviate some of the problems that exist, step right up and help out.

Generally speaking, when another imm goes dormant if they have followers, we do try to pick up and keep things moving for that character. We have a pretty good looking out for each other in terms of cabal management and keeping tabs on followers.

Areas are typically something that we avoid tweaking while the author is still around (unless its bug related stuff) out of respect to said author. I know that probably isn't the answer you were looking for, but its certainly one of the main reasons that your frustrations re ST exist.

.... think Valg laughed at me if I remembered the incident. Given my history of nearly ten years ago, apparently it wasn't enough to make it through "Hi, I'd like to try" stage when I said "Yeah, I'm *that* guy". But hey, he's mostly gone right?

I'd probably be up for it - given I put in the work for that video, done the itemDB software, help Gabe a decent amount, basically setup and manned the Wiki as an admin, had some good characters... not like I don't got a drive to do the work.

Hell, I'm bored enough now to start making Silent Tower in Terraria: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=478722842

Bunch of CFers and ex-CFers play on the server, figured I'd make a little homage. We're not far enough in the game or I'd turn the fountains on... next it's the Alteration Level

p.s. Anyone playing Terraria is more than welcome to join the server I setup, just PM me on Dio's.

We should do guides for all the EXPLORE areas via Terraria. I got dibs on Aran'gird.