There has been some chat of leader weapons and how people are annoyed that other leaders can simply pick up and walk off with someone elses leader weapon. Everyone seems to believe it should be attuned to a leader and 'no one else'.

So, I thought - what if you add a new power that comes with a leader weapon (since they're cabal only, power should be good) that allows a leader to call back their weapon to them. Make it medium-high mana usage and a few rounds of lag. That way, leaders vs leaders fights become more interesting with disarming allowed on both sides and always making it so that your leader weapon is not the 'ultimate end all of disarming tactics'.

Thought it might add spice to cabal wars and help people get around the problem of other leaders picking up weapons by making it allowed.

Only problem I forsee is the rager cabal, where it might be hard to explain using a power to call forth a weapon. *shrug* Could be done only at their throne or something.

Also, for RP reasons it might be needed they hold their cabal item to call up their weapon, not sure how that works out in game balance and it basically recreates the original problem again but now you HAVE to fight to get back your leader weapon. Kinda hoping people will help thinking on this one, but its down to the immortals in the end.


Yhorian

I really think players need a definitive answer re: Leader Weapons from IMMs. Given that players have been rewarded for taking another Leader's Weapon, I think there's a general sense of confusion re: the appropriateness of taking Leader Weapons as "prizes."

So, looking for a "Definitive Answer": Is it against the rules to take another Leader's Weapon? Is it approved to take another Leader's Weapon? Is it punishable to take another Leader's Weapon?

Thanks in advance.

See, this is one of those things that we're not supposed to talk about. The "rule" has always been, hands off the leader weapons. It's not written anywhere, but every leader has always understood the hands off policy about snatching each others weapons. Anytime this has been violated in the past (Damned few that I know of personally) there has been at the very least an irritated imm gone off to retrieve said weapon, and at the worst a mild beat down or slay. Every leader understood and (most) respected this hands off policy. However lately there have been a few jackasses who feel it's alright to ignore this unwritten rule.

The problem now becomes, at least one of those jackasses was actually given a reward for doing something every leader knows they aren't supposed to be doing. In this case, said leader had already had at LEAST one warning. This usually isn't a problem, since most people have respected the leader weapon policy and it's not really had to be mentioned until now. I do find it interesting that the ones doing the offending are all from the same cabal.

Now we have a proud tradition here on CF. Anytime something is done by an immortal thats counter to the "traditional policy" on things from the immstaff, there's just nothing said about it. I mean, you expect them to come right out and say "Well yeah, our official policy has always been x y and z, but I didn't feel like doing it this time for (insert random reason here)".

Now, on one hand this is bad, because it just leads to a lot of people saying "What the ####? It's not alright for everyone else, but it's alright for this guy?" Which sets a dangerous precedent. It lets people think they can do things that are not considered acceptable on the mud, and get away with it because someone else does. It also leaves an opening for rumors to spread, with no official word.

On the other hand, it's good because no, as much as I'm all for SOME explainations to the playerbase about major things, I DON'T feel the imms ought to be accountable for every single thing they do, as far as giving the general playerbase an explaination.

In this instance, I'm not going to get into the specifics of the situation AGAIN because my feelings on just how much #### the whole thing is, is already a matter of public record. However, I don't feel it's something that will often, if ever, be an issue again because every other leader I can think of respects the "unwritten rule" about the leader weapons.

If said leader is still alive, then it is a no-no to take their leader weapon. If said leader con-died, age-died, or deleted, then I believe it would be fine for a enemy leader to RP taking the weapon and reaping any RP rewards the imms feel like giving him/her.

In the case that everyone seems to be skirting, the leader that the weapon was made for, no longer existed, therefore there wasn't anything inheirently wrong with taking it. The main reason for the "hands-off" rule is so that the imms don't have to wait for character X to log back in with the stolen weapon, lay the smack down to get it back, and then wait for the original leader to log on to give it back to him/her. If said leader no longer exists, the immortal no longer has to do that.

Just my two coppers worth on the subject.

Pendragon_Surtr

I just have issues with the thought no matter who is doing it to who. In the case of the weapon here, it was handcrafted by Shokai for one of his chosen leaders. That an enemy could just walk in, and not only pick it up but go and have it turned to his use is just...well crap.

I'd say it was just as bad if it were reversed, and a goodie got ahold of an evils weapon. Crapola. A weapon forged by goodness or evil shouldn't be able to be grabbed and used by the other, just because an imm forgot to pick up the weapon after the leader died.

I know when I played Daurwyn, my understanding was that I shouldn't take Loborguz's weapon (I think it was him).

Pretty much everyone on each side of the little conflicts has their own big and powerful allies, or at least could appeal to someone who is an enemy of said Godly person.

There's no policy on it to my knowledge. Discretion of the Immortal running the situation in question.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I seem to recall that I couldn't even pick up and take Loborguz' leader claw. Although to my chagrin, I discovered I could sacrifice it.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

If it was really something that is NEVER supposed to be taken by someone else, than that could be progged into the weapon. Anything short of a weapon that cannot be picked up, implies it is okay to take the weapon.

I would take it as a spoil of war. leaders are not helpless without their weapons. If they want it back so bad, then let them try and take it from me.

Hehe, I remember that. Yeah, it zapped anyone who tried to pick it up. Good times.

I've had a few leaders, and I honestly cannot remember it ever being okay to take a leader's weapon. The only discrection in the situation was how badly the Immortal wanted to smack down on the offender. It was always the unwritten rule that you do not touch a leader weapon that wasn't yours.

I remember back in the way old days, people would get slain out of hand, no questions asked (people didn't try to grab too many leaderweapons back then). Of course, back then the long desc of the items was usually, "So-and-so's weapon... hands off, or else."

I dunno... I say give the weapon (on creation of said weapon) a cabal-specific flag (ie - makefancyleaderweap So-and-so battle). That way, others can pick it up if they want but not use it, and the leader has the option of either: 1) RPing it back, or 2) getting an Imm to hand it back. I honestly do NOT believe that a weapon hand-forged by a god would be so easily stolen as to just pick it up and run off.

*shrug* Trying to find a happy medium. I always grabbed'm if I disarmed one during a fight, but I also returned'm first chance I got. A respect thing, I guess, in addition to the unwritten rule.

>I've had a few leaders, and I honestly cannot remember it ever being okay to take a leader's weapon. The only discrection in the situation was how badly the Immortal wanted to smack down on the offender. It was always the unwritten rule that you do not touch a leader weapon that wasn't yours.


This paragraph sums up my years of experience with leader weapons on CF. It has NEVER been "alright" to just grab another leaders weapon, the only thing that has wavered at all was the DEGREE of how bad you got smacked for taking it by the imm in question.

This has been my experience as well. However, the difference here, as I understand it, is that Blitz is using a weapon from a dead cabal leader. There was no one to return the weapon to, and therefore no reason to have Blitz turn it over. In fact, I'd agree with others who say it is an excellent bit of roleplay to keep it and use it against other marans.

Double standards are bad for CF as a whole. I'm not going to say anything more about it, because the horse is dead, and someone ran off with his hooves.

I got smited by one imm (nameless) and told to "Fucckk offf" and smited for doing the same thing that got me empowered by another imm (Pico) (specifically, my chaos sphere character was unable to grasp the concept of heirarchy, so spoke to gods as if they were his friends). This was all expained in his role too.

Given that the first of these was pretty much ooc, and the second ic, it seems to me as if the first would have stopped me achieving the second, had I paid too much heed to it.

What's less clear is whether Leader Weapons are open game for other players while the Leader is still living. From posts that people made here and on Dio's it looks like Imperial Sect Leaders have been taking other Leader's Weapons -- while the Leaders were still living.

What I'm gathering from this thread and the IMM response is that Leader Weapons are, in fact, open game for other players, and the only the players themselves have formed something like a "code of honor" not to touch other Leaders' weapons. Unless for some reason an Immortal decides to intervene.

I posted because I wanted it to be clear whether or not this "don't touch another Leader's weapon" policy was player-driven or IMM-driven. It sounds to me like it was player-driven.

Anyway, thanks for the response, Valg.

When I said that it's at the Immortal's discretion, keep in mind that stealing a possession that an Immortal hand-crafted for a favored follower will inevitably be looked at very unfavorably. I'd rate it up there with attacking in their shrine and some such. It's not a rules violation (nothing in the rules would cover that), but it's not necessarily a good idea.

An Immortal can set up the weapon so that only one person can touch it, or they can allow some flexibility there. Up to them, along with all the other properties of these sorts of things.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com