Even as a bard with the lore edge, the info provided by lore is extremely unreliable in regards to spells that items provide (talismans etc) as well as the average of the weapon.

Any chance this could be looked at? I don't see any value in this being so random, especially when at 100% with an edge.

nt

Have you considered doing that or reciting identify scrolls since you are bothered and there are available methods already in the game to address your issue?

Come on now, there are bigger fish to fry.

Quality of life - there's no reason for the necessity to spam when it's at 100%.

nt

gr

I think you two are going to really make it. I'm happy for you.

Sorry but lore is not identify. Making it equally as accurate would not make sense RP wise. Plus you have the option if you want 100% accurate item ID's you can use Alduk. Problem solved.

It's not the same as identify and wouldn't make sense RP wise? Are you kidding me?

You mean the fact you stare at an object and go "Hmm, it looks like it's REALLY STRONG" and then you're like "oh wait, this sword is completely dull" and then again "oh my god, it's an artifact from GOD!". It's always random meaning if you really wanted to get realistic you'd have it narrow it down over time... but nope, completely a mechanical thing. At 100%, you're pretty damn good at lore so it should be as close as a spell.

The only difference is people have to type it 5 times instead of once for *zero* reason. RP my ass.



It's really hilarious people think I like Artificial - I really don't.

One is a skill, physical features, using one's senses.

The other is a spell, using magical arcane powers.

RP wise, yes one should be more accurate than the other. That should be obvious, since one is a skill and the other is magic. I don't understand the problem you're having. The fact that weapon averages jump around so much with lore? If you want to nit-pick that severely then perhaps you should help them implement the code for urinating and defecating and how eating only pies will drop one's constitution over time. Good luck.

There's no pleasing some people, you are often one of them.

I get annoyed with lore at low percentages. I would be fine with them making lore as accurate as identify at 100% and make it more useful at low percent by giving more information sooner.

You can already tell if a weapon is better than another via the compare command so why give answers that logically do not make sense in character? I mean, if I have a practice weapon and compare it to a tiny iron dagger you can tell one is better than the other. So why would I ever get the lore result that the tiny iron dagger is worse? It just throws off newbies for no real IC or mechanical benefit.

I agree the weapon averages from lore could be confusing to some, but I also think it's really not a big deal. If you want to know the true weapon average, and you don't want to use the guy in the inn, just lore the weapon over and over a bunch of times and which ever average shows up the most often will be the weapon's true average. When I say a bunch I mean at least ten times, twenty would be better, and more never hurts. I've never heard of a newbie being confused by lore because it contradicted what compare told them. I've see questions about lore on the newbie channel, followed by excitement when the newbie finds out about Alduk. Problem solved, every time. Which is why I don't see this to be a big deal.

This is something I would bring up during big events, like if Umiron wants to play Santa again. Or just email him your idea of how to make it better. Just don't email an imm with "I don't like this, you should make it better. k thanx bye" If you think something is a problem, try to come up with a way to fix it and tell the immstaff directly. Saying you find something annoying won't get you very far.

I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm speaking generally here.

make it less inaccurate at higher skill levels. Once again you come off as holier than thou when you're simply repeating things you've heard before without actually thinking them through.

Lore and identify are not the same thing, so they should not work the same. Magical identification is supposed to be more accurate than physical identification. Once again you're asking the game to fit your playstyle, and not be the game it is. If anyone is holier than thou, it's you. I'm repeating things that have can not possibly be thought through any more than they already have. Lore works just as good as identify does, you just have to use more mana to do multiple lores. So really you're complaining about nothing.

It's a skill, just like lore. Might be a bit of a lapse in logic there if skills arent supposed to be as good as magic.


It makes no sense, 100% should be 100%.

gr

Give everyone a pocket Alduk in the form of a Theran smart phone. Not only will he identify items for you for free, but he will make you immune to the affects of any spells/skills you find "annoying." Hate thieves? Viola! No steal for them! Hate being slept? Welcome to perma-wakesville. Ganging villagers got you down? Have some instant, on demand duo-dimension! (all pocket Alduk actions cost $0.50 per use).

Bonus for those who pay an extra $1.50 a month, they get free access to a step-by-step guide on how to "win." Playing CF has never been easier for the newbies! Phew, just watch our numbers shoot for the sky oh boy how wondrous!

I don't get what you meant with that first bit.

If 100% means it works perfect all the time, how come my skills keep failing even though they're at 100%?

Take your whole first paragraph and assume that you do not know about Alduk or have no cash flow like a newbie would. It is really not very newbie friendly and there is really no reason for it to be difficult like that. I wouldn't call Alduk a solution because he is really very expensive for a newbie. I would be totally fine with Alduk if his fee was more of in the price range of 150-250 copper and maybe closer to 1 gold for legendary equipment. Let me be frank here, I get the vibe that you do not see this as an issue because it does not affect you. That is fine, but just because it would not help you does not mean that it is not something good for the game. Yes, it is obvious some people want this for themselves and do not really care about the newbies. But anything that helps level the playing field and softens the steep learning curve is good for the game. Unless it entirely removes a fun aspect of the game, of course. (I do not find grinding for gold to pay Alduk fun either.)

The Imms read the forums so if one of the coders decides it's a good idea and wants to champion it, that is great. If not, maybe I will ask next year for Santa Umiron if I remember... That is 9 months away.

gr

That was entirely not what I said. Where did you even get that from? Have you been drinking? I should be drinking. Hmmmm... Fix!

I get what you're saying. Believe me, I want more people to play too. Things that keep new players around are things I want too. But I don't want the game to turn into a completely different game just to make it more newbie friendly. I understand the plight, but I also think people take it way too far, and this is an example. 100% fully accurate item identification skills or spells should not be in every classes skilltree. It makes sense a fighter style class isn't going to be as knowledgeable of things as wizards and priests. This is why I think lore is just fine the way it is. You get points to lore for getting observation exp, lessening the need to spam it. It works just as good at 90% so you really don't even need to master it. And as far as alduk being too costly, the things newbies will pick up and want identified will mostly be very low cost at or less than 100 copper.

>Changing lore will turn this into a completely different game.

You're argument is lame, and you need to stop being a crybaby. Go play dungeon crawler if CF is too hard for you.

Every class in the game can learn appraise from observation and that has 100% accuracy. It's also a skill, like lore. Why should that work 100% and lore not?

It's a very valid argument, and everyone can get appraise. So why is the skill less people can even learn more inaccurate than the one any retard can get by looking at random mobs?

Calling names just points out your argument isn't as intelligent as the guy you are arguing with. No need for that trash. Do you have logic as to why appraise works and lore doesn't? Waiting patiently for that one.

Lore is a default skill taught by the guilds. Appraise must be earned. That is one argument for why appraise should be better than lore, not a comment on how lore or appraise should work mechanically.

That said, I really don't get this huge bitchfest centered around lore...I can't rattle off weapon averages...doesn't hurt my ability to PK/gear at all..

I see now, you're talking about appraise. Before when you said "the observation point given lore" I thought you were talking about the lore points given to you for the observation experience one gains. That is why my first reply to you I said I did not understand what you meant.

Appraise is earned, it is not a base skill in any class skilltree. It makes sense it would be better than lore. Next?

Thieves can get it via thief path.

1) "Don't make the game different for newbies, I like it how it is... even though how it is now is completely confusing to new players and makes zero sense." Yeah let me ID this potion... I'm a svirfnebli, it's on the class page that I'm better at this! Wait, what's a 'Valg fart'? There's no helpfile for this spell.. (and who in their right mind knows to type it more than once?)
2) "100% accurate ID skills shouldn't exist for every class"... you mean the fact that lore is right for every for single armor piece and is only really variable at all for weapons/preps? Or the fact that compare does a better job than lore? The fact that compare and lore contradict each other is not going to help people.
3) You fail to even reflect on the fact that we're only talking about 100% which is something almost everyone would have to spend practicing/spamming to get up to that level... why shouldn't 75% be better than 100%?
4) "But there's Alduk!" A mob that most people never know about unless they are told about it and is again very expensive. Even 100 copper is a lot for a complete newbie but even with that you're off, it's more expensive than that... especially when I've seen newbies identify fine leather gear there.

Maybe you should play DCSS - a publicly available code base that gets input from everyone so it improves....

With the "for the newb!" arguments guys. It's a tired old rallying cry and it doesn't make sense 99% of the time it is used. Every game has its theme and style. Most games these days are so geared to massaging the "newb's" private parts because more newbs = more monies. It's not the fault of the CF staff that you've become reliant on that ego stroke.

This is not that type of game. It's free and it's built to the specifications of a collective vision. That vision doesn't include hand holding or ease of access. Unless you are a newb yourself, you have no excuse for hanging onto the notion that the game will suddenly change in that regard.

Does lore make sense? No. It's an archaic skill and doesn't live up to the customized awesomeness that is the CF system. It's also unimportant and not worth a ton of time spent tweaking it or even talking about it.

>1) "Don't make the game different for newbies, I like it how
>it is... even though how it is now is completely confusing to
>new players and makes zero sense."

I never said that. And no, it's not completely confusing to new players. There's this thing called the newbie channel, you should check it out.

>Yeah let me ID this
>potion... I'm a svirfnebli, it's on the class page that I'm
>better at this! Wait, what's a 'Valg fart'? There's no
>helpfile for this spell.. (and who in their right mind knows
>to type it more than once?)

I figured it out, and I'm not as smart as you. Besides the conversations I've had about the Summon Beer Elemental spell are things I would not give up for anyone or anything. Priceless. So go #### yourself on that one Torak.

>2) "100% accurate ID skills shouldn't exist for every
>class"... you mean the fact that lore is right for every for
>single armor piece and is only really variable at all for
>weapons/preps? Or the fact that compare does a better job than
>lore? The fact that compare and lore contradict each other is
>not going to help people.

You really don't like learning things do you? You want all the knowledge to be implanted into your brain like this is the matrix. Well it's not. This is not one of those games where you put the mouse cursor over the item on your character sheet and it opens a window with all the item specs. Compare and lore don't contradict each other. Compare is 100% accurate but the details it gives are vague. Lore isn't 100% accurate, but gives specific details down to the numbers. Are you aware that some tools are good for certain things, while there's other tools that are better? Do you see how it works? If one skill was 100% accurate then why do we need the others? You crawl before you walk.

>3) You fail to even reflect on the fact that we're only
>talking about 100% which is something almost everyone would
>have to spend practicing/spamming to get up to that level...
>why shouldn't 75% be better than 100%?

Why do I still get hit when I have 100% dodge?

>4) "But there's Alduk!" A mob that most people never know
>about unless they are told about it and is again very
>expensive. Even 100 copper is a lot for a complete newbie but
>even with that you're off, it's more expensive than that...
>especially when I've seen newbies identify fine leather gear
>there.
Your opinion is not fact. Just because you think most people never know about alduk, doesn't mean it's the way it is. I have seen plenty of people use alduk, and I have pointed people to him via the newbie channel. Did you know about the newbie channel?


>Maybe you should play DCSS - a publicly available code base
>that gets input from everyone so it improves....

No thanks, CF takes up enough free time.

Your argument that they should be different is really only the creation of how you believe it should be. Also, that you believe every class should not have a way to identify is clearly wrong or otherwise we would not have a lore skill at all. Nor would warriors get it.

Also, I swear every single time I give an item to Alduk even if it is crappy is 500 copper - 3 gold. It may be that it is just because they are items that I have no idea what they do and they look fancy from new areas. That has been my experience with it. - A new player is going to probably going to identify the same items. Yes, that depends on your definition of a newbie. After a few characters they are still new and I would consider them a newbie. That is the steep learning curve.

I do not see any of the changes that I mentioned as "turning it into a completely different game". It is just improving parts that are unnecessarily challenging for newer players.