Why the discrimination against my assassin who love two handed weapons? I mean, we get pugil, and that's cool, but how come assassin don't have any skills they can use with a spear? And also, how come assassin can't assassinate with a spear (I mean, staff is doable also. A thrust in the back with the base of the staff and a well placed clunk on the head could cripple and destroy)? I think assassin need some help in the two handed department.

Now, aside from whatever ideas you have/can come up with for that (if you even care), I had an idea for some variety for the assassin class. Now, I already consider them one of the msot powerful classes in the game, so I know they're probably not high on the list of classes that need revamping/changes, but I would love to see a split between killer and monk assassin. Make make that be the difference between one and two handed weapons or something. Have the killer assassin focus on, well, killer stuff, and the monk assassin focus on more defensive but devastating techniques (ala nerve, which I had already complianed about earlier).

I know it might not be possible but there's always my two original questions...
1)Why don't assassin have a skill to use with a spear?
2)Why no assassinations with the two-handed weapons?

The easy answer against this is the one I was given many moons ago when I proposed (roughly) the same thing. Assassins, while able to use staffs and spears, prefer to do thier work with 'concealable' 'upclose' weaponry. Daggers, bare hands, swords....these are the tools of the trade for assassins. Yes, I know, all of us can come up with ways that you could 'sneak up' on someone with a staff or spear and get the drop on them....but it doesn't fit the theme of the class.

Will it always be so? Dunno.

Alright, good enough answer, but that then leaves the question of "If they don't care to use the weapons, why do the guilds teach them?"

Here are the only real benefits I could see would be being able to practice them.

1) Parry vs others with them. (Though they aren't THAT frequently used)

2) Using them to parry for yourself. (Again, not that big since you have shield block anyways)

3) Felars. Felars always love spear/staff.

None of these seem particularly effective reasoning for the class to learn the weapon, but never significantly use them. Here would be my suggestions for changes to see -

A) Leave the weapons, switch out pugil for some small assassin-unique skills of similar effectiveness for them to use. This having no particular gameplay impact, but increases style points and assassin flavor.

B) Remove shield block, possibly compensate with a small additional staff/spear skill. Shield block doesn't seem to be particularly "assassin-like", along the same lines as thieves. Assassins are stealthy, dextrous fighters...who rely on carrying a big hulking shield to defend themselves? This would cause assassins to be somewhat more extremists in fighting. Do I dual wield, and be offensive, or use a spear/staff for the defensive aspect? At which point, if you go with 2-hand weapon, the new skill would be nice to have something to do. (Really, does ANYONE like pugil? Didn't think so...you use it when there's nothing better to use.)

C) Remove spear/staff entirely. This does bad things to their weapon choices, but assassins *ARE* very specialized in their kicks and assassination. People have to lose out somewhere else then. If you want to keep it so they can parry, why not just give them one skill that lets them block 2-handed weapons in general? Given the size of the weapons, you might think an assassin could use his quickness to more easily deflect them.

D) Reply with a post saying "Nice ideas, but we think assassins are pretty well set how they are. Go back to killing children and pillaging anthills!"

Anyways, just a few of my thoughts for possibilities. Enjoy!

(If you *DO* implement some random skill, it absolutely *HAS* to be called "Straklaw's Uber-Assassin Technique-O-Doom")

I LIKE THAT NAME!

No but really those were some pretty damned good ideas. Straklaw for 54! Straklaw for 54! Imm and do something about it!

No... but really... those were some good ideas. As much as I would hate to see assassin lose shield block , it DOES kinda make sense. Man, I don't even know what to say. Creative ideas I didn't think of. Wonder what the imms think.

D) Reply with a post saying "Nice ideas, but we think assassins are pretty well set how they are. Go back to killing children and pillaging anthills!"

I'm closest to this viewpoint. I don't see a pressing need to give assassins special expertise with two-handed weapons. (If anything, I'd think they should have less, from a purely stylistic standpoint, but I'm aware opinions on this vary a bit.) I think the class is very well-rounded and popular as is.

So, while the ideas you lay out are interesting, they wouldn't really be where I'd want to spend my time. There are other classes/cabals/races/whatever which probably need the tweaking more and have stronger consensus as to a direction. There's always a lot of stuff that needs doing.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Your viewpoint seems to be more along this lines, with or without the compensating skill. Or is this strictly a "Valguarnera" viewpoint, and the Staff consensus may vary?

Anyways, it was just to toss out possible ideas, and you Imms can always come back and use one of them sometime if you feel the desire.

Straklaw marches off to find children to kill and anthills to pillage...

...
...

You see a large form come dashing back into view waving it's arms wildly!

...apparantly the ants have won again.

Assassins are quite powerful as they are. Any more tweaking to make more powerful would result in a change in game balance. Two-handed weapons are more cumbersome and less accurate than, say, a dagger or a single blade. I don't see a problem here.

More cumbersome and less accurate? I don't know about that...talk to Shokai about spears and all. Personally, I'd think gripping with both hands would make the weapon more stable and easier to control. Also, keep in mind it wouldn't nessecarily be making them *more* powerful, since they'd just be changing weapons. Though, to Domino...I don't really see that assassins have any particular skills for the 1-handed weapons either. Just assassinate (which yeah would be cool if you could do with any weapon).

Along the lines that since you can't assassinate with a staff, you can still at least pugil. Spear is just completely absent from the skill list other than the fact you can know and use it.

Anyone assassinate with a staff or spear. Usually it's a smaller object that can be kept hidden ie. dagger and small swords.

Always thought assassins should have polearm skills. But then, in CF context, what is an assassin going to do with a polearm? They are heavy and not suitable at all. Assassins in CF context are martial artists - legs, hands, locks and crunches. Two-handed weapons are no-no (IMHO) as they seem to be heavy and cumbersome, though dealing huge damage.

Have you ever seen a martial artist use a staff or spear? It's a beautiful thing, ESPECIALLY with a spear, because they can strike quickly, or with power, on demand. A spear, I'd say, is a very dangerous weapon in the hands of a martial artists. In the same way, a staff is dangerous, but it lacks the bladed tip (thus, a spear) that makes some of the faster strikes possible.
But really, if they were so heavy and cumbersome, assassin wouldn't learn them in the first place, or use two handed weapons, which are favored by felar assassin, who do damn well with it, so that argument is mute. Some martial artists (usually the bigger ones) use maces, but why assassin (smaller in the CF world) dont learn them. Same with whips. I could definately see assassin using whips or flails. The "ball and chain" type weapon can be very dangerous (especially when it's bladed, or paired with a bladed weapon). I mean, there's plenty options martial artists have. The problem comes with separating martial artists, which some warriors can aspire to be, from assassin.
Anyway, I could see assassin learning sword/dagger/spear/staff/whipAND-ORflail, and adding lash, and some kinda spear oriented attack. At the very least, maybe learning to assassinate with the weapons they know how to use. I mean, how can you master a weapon a yet not know how to assassinate with it as an assassin?

Quickly sweeping his legs out from under him with the base of your staff, you send PREY to the ground.
Before he can react, you bring the head of the staff down on his head, cracking his skull.

Carefully sizing up your target, you lunge at him and drive your spear through the back of PREY's neck
You remove your spear and watch as blood spews from the two openings in his throat. (notice... NOT an impale)

Maybe even get some tribal hunting type #### going on...
Holding your spear in one hand, you line up your target and take aim.
You throw your spear at PREY and watch as it plunges into his side and reveals itself on the other side.
PREY removes the spear with the last of his life, and falls the ground in a lifeless pool of blood.

Okay the last one was a semi-joke, but come on, there are options you have. I can see it working out. And like someone said before, it wont necessarily make assassin any STRONGER, because they can already assassinate, but it opens up a whole new world to people who prefer to use spears/staffs.