I'll make a couple of points here, feel free to disagree, just remember to hate the idea, not the person. Am a vet of ~20 years (off and on) with a few prominent, but mostly under-the-radar chars. My last big one was Quarissa, just to provide perspective.

1) You're not entitled to anything. You're not paying to play this game and can expect absolutely nothing in return. If some IMP deletes your char and laughs, you can do jack about it and you accept said possibility just by playing. Your domain can be denied for actions of someone else (happened to me), you can be slain/purged for perceived cheating when there was none (happened to me), you can be uncaballed for accidentally hitting a cabal guardian (happened to me), well, you get the idea. I've had chars hated/unloved by imms for no reason at all and I've had chars rewarded over the top for no apparent reason.

2) If you just played a high-profile char that had every edge, tattoo, leader spot, and general respect of everyone, it's very very hard to not feel you deserve anything less on your next. However, you don't. Earn it with your next (luck into it sometimes) and sure, you'll get there. Unfortunately, chances are that's not going to happen. For example, I struggle to PK anyone with my current. Maybe wrong build, maybe wrong place/wrong time, maybe lack of player skill, doesn't matter. Yes, it's frustrating, but that's totally on me, and not on someone at 15th level who loots my hero corpse full of shinies. I personally would refrain from doing it at 15, but it doesn't give me an excuse to flame out/OOC or even whine. It's by design. If you don't like it/can't deal with it, don't play. Since you do, you accept it.

3) Daevryn could have chosen to keep ST closed. Scarab could have chosen to keep Hell closed. However, they decided to generously give you a chance (yes, maybe a small chance for some) to experience those great areas. They have spent countless hours on the game in general and those areas in particular. Why do YOU think you deserve to see them? You don't and they don't owe you jack.

4) I usually find that if I don't like/play my char, I have 0 imm exp. If, however, I get into the swing of things and just play according to the role and show up semi-regularly, some of it finds me somehow, especially when I don't think about it. Of course, I never roll with an expectation to have 2k imm xp (that happens for maybe 1/3 of my chars) and you shouldn't either. Roll to have fun and just play.

5) Participate in Imm-run quests. They're usually a great deal of fun and there are usually some rewards. HOWEVER, don't expect anything going in and you won't be disappointed. I remember spending like three hours on one and got nothing in the end. However, I had fun and that was my reward. Sure, I felt like I deserved something, but I quickly quashed that poisonous thought. That char went on to have lots of love. If I deleted out of spite and to whine on forums, I'd be feeling crappy and would potentially piss off volunteers who spend their limited time trying to make me happy with nothing to show for it but mutual crappiness all around.

6) Don't be an ass to others and generally they won't be an ass to you. Notice I said "generally" - there are some people who will be crap regardless of what you do. But it's a part of the game. Accept it and move on, it shouldn't influence you. You are (or can be) a better person. Trust me, the level of stuff that went on during the first age was beyond reproach. Full loots by roving OOC no-RP gangs were the norm, for example.

Play this game because it's the greatest and thank the imms expecting nothing in return. Or don't, you do have a choice.

Responses.

1) You're right. I don't like certain things about how the game works and so I don't play because it's too time consuming. Myself and the other posters were also posting in a thread about how the game should work. Why would you not expect people to offer opinions in a thread asking for people's opinions? The imms are full grown intelligent and educated adults - they're not going to cry if someone disagrees with them. Obviously if they don't want opinions they won't ask for them. Not sure why people feel the need to "white knight" the Imms against people disagreeing with their policies - no one is even being offensive.

2) Some things about the game are inconsistent. How long it takes you to get into ST is one of those things. Things that have impact on gameplay that are inconsistent like empowerment and access to ST and edges cause problems. It's not unreasonable to want a consistent set of steps that you can follow to deal with the mechanics part of the game after you've invested such and such hours into a character that isn't going to live forever. Have you noticed that no modern MMO handles gearing exclusively on random number generator drops? This is a much tamer example of the same philosophy.

3) I'd personally rather stuff be closed than be opened to only a limited number of people. We're 20 years into this game, there's only like 30 people left playing at a time...let go of the secrecy already. It already killed this game, it doesn't need to pummel the dead corpse as well.

4) Ok. Except it also has to do with what times you play and how they overlap with Imms that might watch you and reward you. My Imm XP history has been all over the place seemingly randomly. Something like being in a cabal with imms that are more active can have a major impact - which leads to bandwagon syndrome amongst other things.

5) Agreed - assuming you can make it.

6) Agreed - but not sure what this has to do with everything else in this thread.

And regarding this bit :

> Play this game because it's the greatest and thank the imms expecting nothing in return. Or don't, you do have a choice.

Are you going to be spouting that #### until you're the last guy left playing the game or what? Aren't we past the point where we pretend like a game without other players is nearly as much fun as a game with other players? Is it really that much fun to sit around in your cabal spamming EQ wishing there was something else to do? That's one of the things I found about CF that is a shame - it's terribly boring during the long periods of time that no one else is in your range, enemy or ally.

The whole "this is a party and you're only a guest so if you don't like anything, gtfo" is a really immature way to behave. This isn't a party. It's a game, it's a piece of software. I work on dozens of software projects per year - and you know what? Sometimes things are broken. Somethings things work less than ideal ways. And if you're a professional you learn to handle criticism without taking it personally and crying about it.

It's ok to say, "This thing is broken." It doesn't mean the imms are bad people or stupid or whatever. It's ok to admit that something isn't very good, or that someone is wrong about something. At this point we're all in our 30's and 40's - we should be past petty issues of pride and inability to accept criticism.

"It's ok to say, "This thing is broken." It doesn't mean the imms are bad people or stupid or whatever. It's ok to admit that something isn't very good, or that someone is wrong about something. At this point we're all in our 30's and 40's - we should be past petty issues of pride and inability to accept criticism."

Sure. But if you're a software developer working for a firm, you get compensated for your work (salary/hourly wage). If you're working for this game you literally have nothing in the way of compensation for your work, just a sunk cost of time that is lost doing whatever project you thought would be super awesome and/or beneficial to the community.

Now imagine that you spend 100 hours coding something and people whine AS SOON AS IT GOES LIVE, or quit the game before giving any changes a trial?

Comparing CF to a for profit business simply isn't an apples to apples case. Again, do I believe it completely invalidates some of your core messages? Absolutely not. I always agree with a lot of the stuff you say.


PS (rant mode activated):

And I am also in agreement with Tac's perspective below, as I was when I started actively marketing in the summer. A project which I have canned temporarily because people were actively advising new players which I managed to attract to our MUD to not bother playing the game, thus undoing literally hundreds of hours of my hard work and energy*.

I have stated this before, and I will state it again. CF can survive, it can even prosper. However, this is not going to occur with a high degree of vitriol, or people pulling in different directions. That doesn't mean eliminating criticism, it just means players and staff being a little more mindful of each other and appreciating the bind which this game is in. Thus constructive criticism is preferable.

CF also cannot prosper while we try to market and the community absolutely slams this game openly to new players. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't start a new game and approach a rather steep learning curve while I was being bombarded by negativity and chants of "don't even bother buddy! The imms do not listen/don't care!**"

To think that this game can survive without a high degree of graft is absolute nonsense. To think that the game can be altered without a high degree of graft plus time to code is nonsense.

I used to look up to many of the community for (what I still believe to be) massively creative, positive and awesome characters. That includes you Eskelian. It's a shame that rather pulling together, people who supposedly care about this game are pulling in opposite directions.

PPS: I would also point out, at risk of sounding like a pompous douchebag, that communities live or die together. In times of hardship, and make no mistake, we are in a time of hardship presently (both in the market space that CF occupies, and the wider Western world) that communities thrive, or die based on the character and cooperation of the individuals within that community.

If you*** literally cannot log in to CF without absolutely hating this game, that's fine. You don't HAVE TO log into CF. Step away, go live your life, and I personally wish you all the best with it. As a former member of this community you will always retain my personal respect and I will have time for you. I do ask in return, that you please, PLEASE, do not waste my life and my attempt to reinvigorate this game with senseless vitriol and endless negativity.

*That's not to say a lot of community members haven't offered up their time and energy to assist too, because many have.
**Not my attempt at brown-nosing my way up the chain, that has never been my intent, and I am at risk of being booted from heroimmdom as of the end of this month if I don't get my area in order. An issue, which incidentally, I am 100% culpable for.
***Aimed at the broader community. Not just Eskelian.

I agree with all of your points, and thank you for taking the time to put a communication like this out there.

I will say the following - While I can be a complete pain in the ass when I get vocal, it is because I really like CF. I don't go on these rants, because I hate the game.

What would be nice is to see "compromise" from the staff on certain issues, such as Silent. I'm not saying there "has to be" compromise on everything, but occasionally it would be nice.

Sometimes in my opinion the hardest of being a member of the community is, that when myself and others express that a change is negative in our eyes - for example edge changes. The staff seems to brush off comments/opinions and sometimes the answer feels like "this game belongs to the staff, tough ####".

At the end of the day, I wouldn't post here if I didn't play/enjoy CF - and I am probably not the only 'negative nancy' that this applies to.

A lot of the staff do. When you are impassioned about something you have strong feelings. Occasionally it gets heated, or can be misconstrued (especially on forums) as general troublemaking. I never believed that was the case but rehashing the same issues over and over can be very tiresome from the perspective of a game admin.

Of course, if you genuinely care a lot about this game, there are plenty of little things which you can do even as a player to try and make a difference, such as:

- Occasionally posting (legibly, and reasonably) on MUD websites with reviews to direct traffic here.
- Voting us up on rankings.
- Helping out newer players if you see them floundering. (This is probably even more important than solo ranking for skill spam. Just saying, eat the handful of deaths you might incur from a failed skill over the course of your character's life to improve our numbers in the bigger picture.)

And a lot of players already do this stuff. When I looked into the state of previous advertising, I've found player advertising for CF as broadly as illegal torrent stuff*.

If the staff does appear to brush off opinions, it might be that the level of work needed to tackle said problem is significant, or just an overall difference in opinion which we cannot really come to agreement on**. Some issues we face are kind of the elephant in the room. They are there, people are aware of them, but they will take a lot of work to fix. Marketing/Advertising and the general game time requirement needed (as an individual) to remain competitive are two examples of this in my opinion.

*Not certain this is the sort of advertising we want to be affiliated with, but it just demonstrates how much a player cared to try and get the word out there about our game.
**Again, RE: Imm Xp, or RE: ST Xp requirements.. The staff do debate that stuff, but it is really difficult to say as a player, or as a staff member, whether these game facets are generally beneficial, or not. It's hard to say where this game would be at if the staff had picked a different course of action: for instance, where would we be if there was no Imm Xp, and no edge system? It's also generally really, really difficult to make assertions without some kind of quantitative analysis.

Should that stop us from trying to improve as a community, or stop us from taking criticism? No, of course not. But do remember that admins see behavior and issues which aren't seen by players. So while gated Xp on an area explore might not seem to make sense from a personal player perspective, it is most likely there for a reason.

I'm confident that the team which is in place right now are immensely capable, well-intentioned and are rational/well-educated/hard working individuals from broad walks of life (something which I believe to be reflective of the wider community in general). Hopefully that will allow CF to continue to prosper into the future, because the game has really defied all odds to make it this far based on larger market trends. The players (past and present) also deserve a great deal of credit for that.

"- Helping out newer players if you see them floundering. (This is probably even more important than solo ranking for skill spam. Just saying, eat the handful of deaths you might incur from a failed skill over the course of your character's life to improve our numbers in the bigger picture.)"

The problem here is that there isn't incentive for the competitive people to put the competition aside and do this. If you're focused on numbers, which a lot of the power gamers are (Well RPd or not), then this kind of thing is basically saying "Hey...take away your advantage over the other people you compete with, and let them win the game". Like purposefully making a bad move in chess so the other person can take your piece. I get the sentiment, but this doesn't encourage anyone who doesn't have the higher aspect of "making CF better".

If you want people to be positive towards noobs, you (As an IMM staff, not you specifically) need to start making better incentive's the type of behavior. If by helping someone else, I improve my competitive edge against the other veterans, I'm all in - 100%

A few legitimate incentives:

-IMM exp for people who are noticed helping noobs - this provides incentive for the people who want to get into hell/silent tower

-edges SPECIFICALLY for people who are helpful to noobs (Make it so this is impactful on a mechanics level). This provides incentive to give up that 1% skill improvement to help a noob learn an area, gain a title, etc. These edges need to be only attainable via being genuinely helpful to noobs, and need to be competitively oriented so that those types of players have the incentive to sacrifice a little to gain a little. We all know the noobs aren't the ones we have to worry about in PK - but giving us an edge over others who *aren't* helping noobs is great incentive. Positive helpful players get mechanical benefits over sullen butthurt ones.

-IMM exp (Small) for people who answer questions on the newbie channel in a genuinely positive and helpful manner. Take away IMM exp from people who are vitriolic or negative on newbie channel.

EDIT: Just wanted to point out I like what the Imm staff is doing in general - this isn't supposed to come off ranty - just a constructive suggestion on how to incentivize noob-helping in a way that actually provides incentives to the "powergamers" who spam practice, PK total noobs over and over, are in it for the imm exp to get the 1337 gear, etc.

General newbie channel shenanigans tend to get the user banned.

Imm Xp and so on is a tricky thing to measure. It also adds an additional layer of administration to most people's jobs. There is already a lot of admin in place.

I'll have a think about some of the stuff you've mentioned. If I can think of a way to add some incentives without creating an exploitable game feature, or huge administrative burden, I will write up a proposal.

So if an Imm notices and likes, they can "cast a magic" that will last 300 hours or something that would do something positive for the char that may or may not affect PK (balancing isn't my thing - I don't know half of how mechanics work)

Some easy ones that come to mind would be

1. Cover a char vuln temporarily (in a balanced way)
2. If char has no inherent vulns, increase resistance to all some
3. -svs vs spell
4. -AC
5. Hitroll like a mofo (cuz it works, rite?)
6. +str/dex (small, maybe +1/2 to decrease what you need to cover for gear)

I'm getting ahead of myself, but probably easiest to ask a coder-imm to make a few quick classes that can stack, and still remain balanced, then pop them into a command with a case statement that takes a noob_count.

newbie(charname, noob_count, pfile){
switch (noob_count){
case: 0 {covervuln}
case: 1 {increase_resist}
case: 2 {better_svs}
}

etc, etc, so it could be additive, so an imm can just hit the noob_helper button and it will pick up where it left off. Timers would eventually wear out, so if they want to keep the effects, they have to keep helping the noobs.

I'm not ignoring these posts. I read all responses to me personally, and many of the other posts which are not specific to me.

I did some thinking on this. A few more thoughts on this.

Obviously genuine altruists > competitive players for helping newbies. They will be doing work for the right reasons (the MUD/community) as opposed to entirely self-serving/mechanical reasons..

.. But you are right about incentives definitely having serious affects in changing behavior and attitudes. History has shown the following though:

1. Incentive programs in game tend to (over time) develop into an expectation.

2. Incentive programs take a relatively high degree of admin time and are often not evenly distributed throughout the course of the day. (CF is 24 hours, but Imm coverage may not be.)

So I like the idea of some kind of minor spell affects, perhaps even more so than Imm Xp. Maybe something passive boost to morale on timer wouldn't break the game, or give ridiculous advantage. (I don't know though, since I do not know the exact specifics of morale.) Your suggestions above would also not be game breaking, provided they are not overboard (+9str/+9dex or whatever.) 300 hours is a long timer, so the bonus would have to be minor.

I have to say that this isn't immediate and urgent in terms of priority (for anyone) as there are more important things to tackle, at least in my opinion, but thanks for your input. I do really mean that.

I've made a mental note of this and it's in the queue of things I would raise for official discussion at a later date.

Side note: People who are genuinely helpful to newbies do sometimes get rewarded, though as always it will be hit or miss depending on if someone sees it.

...I think a lot of the perception of your success boils down to your PVP numbers. This is a large side effect of the otherwise awesome PBF system. Still - you're judged by things like your kills per hour.

And not just judged by players but judged by Imms as well and rewarded/granted incentive for hitting 'dem good numbers.

Part of my mind thinks about this when I'm playing and I find it counter-productive to spend time doing things that aren't somehow "efficient". Like leveling, PVP'ing or skill learning. If I'm not doing something that's contributing towards my numbers, I'm basically hurting myself by staying logged into the game and by helping other people.

That whole mindset has to change - we have to change it probably by making the metrics harder to collect. It's a universal law of "key performance indicators" that whatever you measure you're going to impact by the act of measuring it and sharing the results. This is one of those cases (kills per hour) where it's really detrimental to the game as a whole and we should evaluate if we should even be doing it or somehow balance it out by other KPI that offset the tendency to spend all our time killing the #### out of people to the exclusion of everything else.

Let's not forget that the imms were driven to make the change by players either cheating or experimenting with chars without adhering to rp (eg let me try stepping in each direction before I delete even though I wouldn't be if I wasn't about to delete).

I don't like the way admittance is granted as I do think it's very easy for some players to meet the requirements in a bafflingly short time while others never do despite being solid chars. But let's not forget how we found ourselves moving away from the old, less restrictive, regime. Players created a problem and unfortunately the solution is a problem for us, apart from a lucky few who get access within 50 hrs of play every time. Had we been more respectful of the artist's desires we wouldn't be dealing with the restrictions today.

I am reminded of a guy I sacked in the past. He lied about his degree (claimed a 2:1 in maths when in fact he'd been kicked off the course after failing the 2nd year 3 times in a row), lied about his professional actuarial qualifications (saying he'd passed exams that he'd only ever failed), and probably lied about the circumstances of how he came to leave his previous employment.

I asked him about it when my suspicions were first aroused after getting some info from his uni about the lack of his degree. Had he come clean I would have moved him to a more junior role with the chance to start working his way up legitimately, as ironically I didn't need him to have the degree or the exams, but I needed him to be honest in his doings. He continued to lie and after causing me to use hours of my time gathering evidence whilst being obstructed by data protection legislation, and taking him through our disciplinary process, owned up after I told him his employment was terminated. At this point he suggested we make a fresh start! Anyway, the point is that sometimes you lose your right to complain about a solution if you played a part in forcing that solution.

"Now imagine that you spend 100 hours coding something and people whine AS SOON AS IT GOES LIVE, or quit the game before giving any changes a trial?"

Yes, happens all the time. I get criticized about something or other, work or personal, probably a dozen times a day. I get paid to do a job - but it happens outside of that job as well. Or at that job when I'm doing people a huge favor. It just is what it is - criticism. Criticism is a gift. Don't take it like you, personally, are being trashed. Someone is offering you an opinion - their opinion. If people have an opinion that something is bad - why do they have that opinion? If there's no rational reason why they would have such an opinion then you don't have much of a choice but to ignore them. A lot of times though I'd rather hear someone's opinion than have them secretly think it and be afraid of offending me by saying it.

Here's the thing - if someone really thinks your work is bad - that's what they think. Period, Amen - you cannot force them to think differently. They can either share that with you and give you the choice of whether or not you care about it or they can say that you're not worth it and keep it to themselves. You're advocating that people just spread positive messages even when they think you guys are - more or less - *trying* to make this game less fun for them. That's not realistic.

And I'm not pulling in opposite directions...I told you the learning curve point blank was an issue. It is. That's a fact. The secrecy in the game kills this game to newbies because it's too hard to learn. The difference is I want the game to improve but by *realistic things* like making the game easier for newbies and more enjoyable to play. And what you're saying here is that you want it to prove by *unrealistic things* like people championing things they don't want you to add to the game. I love the idea that "love will find a way" and we can do well just with the power of being positive but that's nonsense. Santa Claus is fake and you're not going to attract new players without an item search .

It is what it is.

I believe that everyone can agree on the point about opinions.

However, there is a huge difference between voicing an opinion in a mature, constructive way and making a huge bitchfest spiced with doomsaying + personal attacks for dessert everytime you are faced with a change that you don't understand or think that IT MIGHT affect you in a negative manner.

I don't see the first very often on either forum.

And scaring newbies away seems to me like "I am angry that I am not getting my way so I will harm the game however I can, so I can feel better and maybe see if I can force the admins to pay attention to what I am saying and make them do the changes that I want/like".

I don't know if it was you that was doing the things I just mentioned, but however did really needs a kick in the junk.

You feel me, Bro?

P.D. Punctuation has never been my thing. In any of the languages I know,hehehehe.

Jae

I really agree with this. It's not going to hurt my feelings if you say something I built or designed doesn't work in a calm, rational, and respectful way.

It also doesn't hurt my feelings if you say it in a totally hyperbolic, vitriolic, and childish way, but it does make me stop and ask myself, "Why am I choosing to make this person one of my peers rather than doing something else with my night?"

I'm not going to throw gasoline on any fires by specifying who or what, but I recently read a post where I materially agreed with what the poster wanted but by the time I finished they had talked me out taking any immediate action on my position by advocating for it in the way that they did. My opinion hasn't changed, but I feel zero motivation to do the work required.

I was more than a little frustrated at the time and that tends to not be the best time to post a heartfelt criticism. I really do care about the game and know that even those immortals who I don't always see eye to eye have put enormous amounts of time and effort into the game so that people like myself can have fun.

On another note... I am already back. Playing a much lower key, lower stress character. People kept saying to come back and so I decided to give it a go in a way that should allow me to "relearn" the game as it seems is needed, but at a slower pace than being caballed and such. I doubt I'll have much time to play now that the wife is back home tomorrow either, so this is the best route.

Again, apologies for being rude.

Joe

.

No one is saying having a 'doomsaying huge bitchfest' is a good thing but I didn't see that either - nor does that really have anything to do with the original poster that I'm replying to.

In entirety. The learning curve absolutely is an issue and an extremely difficult one to overcome.

Either way, criticism is fine. However, what I am not going to do is essentially plow hundreds of hours into something while people are actively working against me. Let's be honest, a lot of factors are not in a marketers/advertisers favor to begin with. Certain players do not need to add to that long list of factors.

I don't want, or need your pity either. I'm simply saying that I'm not going to throw my time away. It's more valuable to me than that. You are essentially in the position of an armchair critic*. I signed up to try and do something for the game and made a commitment to the staff and players. That's the difference between our current circumstances.

So keep the criticism coming, because it is (often) good, but be mindful that for every fix, or every change, someone has to dedicate hours, and hours of their time and energy. Keeping morale and motivation high is important to achieve said aims. The players attitudes almost certainly factor in that.

There are different means of voicing criticism too and some are more constructive than others.

*And that's absolutely fine. I am sure you work insanely hard at your job. A lot of people do. But if you really cared so strongly about this game there are a lot of ways you could contribute. If it's not such a big deal to you to give your time away for a good product (as you state in your post) then I would challenge you to join the staff and be the change you want to envisage.

If you'd like a real contribution shoot me an email and I'll help out. A real contribution though. Not going to a message board and driving in traffic that's just going to leave right away.

The company I'm a partner at has 150 employees processing 50+ projects at a time. My own household has 10 people in it, owing to me helping out some family that needs the help. So I've got a lot on my plate. But I'm super happy to put in some contributions if I feel like they're going to achieve something meaningful. Coding up something like a quick and dirty item search is something I'd be happy to do or help out with - or prettying up the forums or something like that. Or something marketing related - but honestly drawing in traffic and retaining traffic are two hugely different things.

Reach out if you'd like email dcgregorya@gmail.com. If I'm an armchair critic it's only because over the years I've been asked to stick with the armchair .

You're a damned idiot if you boot Mendos for being a little slow with his area.

I know, I know, you can't know if you can trust the person to be dedicated to the game if they don't spend a one or two hundred hours, at least, writing an area.

But for Christ's sake, I've experienced in game Mendos coming down and guiding me when he thought I was a complete newbie. I've seen him steering and helping people who really WERE newbies. The immortal staff should know even better then the rest of us just how much work he's put in promoting the game and attracting new players.

And he's become the moderator on these boards between the staff and the players in the truest sense of the word.

Don't be a dumbass. If he needs some extra time to jump through your hoops, give it to him.

It's on all of the staff, and the point is, I made promise and a commitment to finish this area when I was given the opportunity to heroimm.

If I cannot personally keep my word on that commitment, it isn't right to waste staff resources that are more useful used in other ways.

Also, bear in mind that my contribution to this game (at present) is extremely limited. There are people who have worked tirelessly behind the scenes for years and they rarely, if ever, get any gratitude for their efforts. In fact, on occasion they have even been denigrated.

Important to state that, because since the end of the summer my input and productivity as a heroimm in game has been very limited.

PS: The staff also accelerated me ahead of the conventional process based on the stuff I did over the summer. The staff have been extremely reasonable and understanding with the area stuff.

You're just reinforcing the point Mendos made about players who spew negative, unfounded nonsense.

I've spoken recently and frequently with Mendos, and he's not in any danger of being booted.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

By the part where he said he was at risk of being booted by the end of the month if he doesn't get his area in order.

If I'm wrong in you being one of the major policemen of heroimms (I could have sworn I've read a post from you defending removing level 52's if they can't show the dedication to finish an area in a certain amount of time,) then mea culpa. I'm sorry. You do have a reputation as being the bad cop of CF admin, though.

And I didn't really mean it to me that negative. Was just defending a member of staff who I think has already given a lot and has a hell of a lot more to offer.

Valg is who he is.

And you're right, Mendos is awesome. He was helping obvious n00bs back 5-6 months at least, and looks like he is still doing it.

Still needs to finish his area though. If Balrahd could finish remaking Arboria and RayBaer could do Arial City, anything can be done!

>Are you going to be spouting that #### until you're the last
>guy left playing the game or what? Aren't we past the point
>where we pretend like a game without other players is nearly
>as much fun as a game with other players? Is it really that
>much fun to sit around in your cabal spamming EQ wishing there
>was something else to do? That's one of the things I found
>about CF that is a shame - it's terribly boring during the
>long periods of time that no one else is in your range, enemy
>or ally.

Satire mode: Are you going to be spouting that #### until you're the last guy whining, or gtfo? Aren't we past the point where we pretend like CF will have 0 players tomorrow? Is it really that much fun to sit around on the forum spamming acidic #### wishing you were good at CF? That's one of the things I found out about CF that is a shame - it's full of overly dramatic panty wastes that think something is doomed if it doesn't match their ideal of a perfect game.

Serious mode: Honestly man. 20 years ain't it? People have been saying what you just said for a decade. Give it up. Some of us like CF. You don't. Goodbye.

I have some mixed opinions on this post. Some is solid, and makes good sense, some makes a little less sense. I want to comment on some points though:

"You're right. I don't like certain things about how the game works and so I don't play because it's too time consuming."

I think therein lies the crux of your disenfranchisement. It seems that a portion of veteran players do suffer from a deep rooted cognitive dissonance when trying to reconcile their past experiences of the game with where we stand today.


"I'd personally rather stuff be closed than be opened to only a limited number of people. We're 20 years into this game, there's only like 30 people left playing at a time...let go of the secrecy already. It already killed this game, it doesn't need to pummel the dead corpse as well."

This game still has players, thus it is not dead (yet). Furthermore you're ignoring larger market trends within this sector entirely. Placing the blame in entirety on one factor is a flawed and potentially fallacious line of reasoning to pursue.

"Ok. Except it also has to do with what times you play and how they overlap with Imms that might watch you and reward you. My Imm XP history has been all over the place seemingly randomly. Something like being in a cabal with imms that are more active can have a major impact - which leads to bandwagon syndrome amongst other things."

Again, this inconsistency is a consequence of not having staff on payroll. So sorry, but staff need to eat, feed and educate their children, hold down jobs etc. And yes, I know that the point you are making is RE: Imm Xp, which is essentially CF's version of an incentives program to try and bring out the preferable game play qualities that we would like to see. The verdict is out on its success, pending a more quantitative study, but that doesn't validate what you are saying, it simply does not invalidate it either.

I see bandwagon syndrome as more of a player driven issue, by the way. Bandwagoning was around a long time before any of the Imm Xp changes, which seems to support this hypothesis.

And as I read through your posts here and elsewhere, I wonder just how accurate your handle on current events within the game is. You state that AC only gear is useless (which it isn't.) Furthermore a lot of the drive in area revamps is to cut back on the filler items.

It begs the question though, when was the last time you played this game past level 35? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like a lot of people who are criticising are not even playing. (And yes, we discussed this before RE: survivorship bias, but again a lot of the things people do not like are slowly being eliminated.)

.

I know I'd really like to get the jump on the next bitchfest with a super-sized post of anti-change propaganda.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, but I'm also not sure that your post is in contrast to anything that was said in the other threads. Perhaps that wasn't your intention.

The one thing I take umbrage with is this:

>Play this game because it's the greatest and thank the imms
>expecting nothing in return. Or don't, you do have a choice.

I do have a choice in how I spend my free time. I wouldn't be posting to these forums if I wasn't interested in playing CF. I want to play... but CF isn't particularly fun. Or at least not until after a level of un-fun activity that makes it *very* hard to get back into the game. Let alone get into the game to begin with.

And so I try to lobby for change. Because parts of CF are what I consider to be the greatest game I've ever played. I lobby for change because I want CF to be a great game again. I don't buy that MUD's are a dead genre or any of the other arguments for shrinking playerbase. When this game opened something like 1 in 10 people in the developing world used the internet. Today that number is closer to 8 in 10. You can't convince me that with 700 million or so extra people that we can find 100 or 200 that want to play CF.

I think you've summed things up quite well. I'll toss in a Captain Jack Sparrow comment to help anyone get their mind right.

"The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

Although from a Disney movie, still very good advice. If you feel like someone else gets special treatment, you got the shaft, or fortune just took a dump on your doorstep, you at all times have 3 options.

-- You can complain about it (and realize it won't change anything)
-- You can quit the game entirely
-- You can accept it, move on, and decide to enjoy the game for what it is

Right/wrong/fair/unfair has nothing to do with it. At the end of the day, it's what a man can do and what a man can't do.

And you defined those types of thoughts perfectly - poisonous.

#### I had no control over.

Like, I'd get a great idea for a duergar dagger spec in Battle. I'd think to myself "Self, you'll totally do well as long as there isn't 20 paladins in your range coming up".

So I'll roll the character, and a new Fort IMM will be created, and 30 paladins will get rolled up.

Kind of like Nepenthe mentioned when he said Aulrathdien had great luck in that none of his character's "banes" had been rolled up or where playing, I often have the exact opposite luck. IE Whatever my character's bane is EVERYONE IS ROLLING.

Or I'm one of those guys who will roll Fort when Empire is dominating so I can get some fights and an Empire perma will be denied and then I'm left with 4000 Fort chars and no evils in range. OR I'll be playing a support character and no one will be in my cabal.

That's the #### that really destroys my desire to play, because there is literally nothing I can do about it. Most of the other things that bother me I can control, but not stuff like that.

Reason I replied to you with this thought is when I'm dealing with that ####, I often think "WTF when I had my shifter last month there were no paladins and now there are 100000. If only I had rolled the duergar when I rolled the shifter!" And those thoughts are just as poisonous because they are true

Edited to add: Though not nearly as concise and eloquent. Well done!

Subject: How not to be a CF douchenozzle

nt