I've been getting this recently quite a lot:

The guildmaster whispers to you 'I believe I have discovered lore about a powerful magical item that would be of great value to you, my student.'
The guildmaster whispers to you 'Hrm. On second thought, I'm not certain I trust you enough to disclose what I know.'

What causes this? It starts the timer on receiving another message from any guildmaster (ie going to other guildmasters doesn't give you any more hints).

Could you highlight that to discuss with evil guildmasters you must first give them 10 silver, then discuss?

This wasn't clear in the helpfile and rather then roll a new character and rank it up to 30 I tried to figure it out myself and ate an experience sap. I would hate to see other people get a black mark on their file simply because they are curious about mechanics of relatively new functionality.

How so?

An immortal removed imm XP from my character.

I can understand their position and don't really mind it other than the nebulous question in the back of my head about how many days/hours this will set me back on my goals.

But I wouldn't have experimented if I understood how it would work from simply reading the helpfile. I was curious and rolling a new char is a lot of extra effort to understand basic game mechanics because they don't become available until level 30.


A better idea might be to add something to the academy so people can see the intricacies of the system while still in RP safe mode. Perhaps have a couple of khardraths shield wand spots in lowbie areas like kobolds, akan, etc and have a newbie discuss with 3 guildmasters to see how they get different clues from each.

Is probably for talking to an evil guild master when you are good? For questionable rp rather than mechanics. But if so, the same should apply to practicing in a guild.

I know why they did it. I think it was more than a little nit picky but whatever it is not a big deal.

>Could you highlight that to discuss with evil guildmasters
>you must first give them 10 silver, then discuss?

Looks like someone else also agreed and already added that to the helpfile. Woot!

>>Could you highlight that to discuss with evil guildmasters
>>you must first give them 10 silver, then discuss?
>
>Looks like someone else also agreed and already added that to
>the helpfile. Woot!

Unless I'm missing something, it's the same helpfile text that was present from June 1st.

Mage guildmasters may also respond to a discussion with hints about the location of a powerful magical artifact. Note that evil guildmasters do not freely volunteer their time, and it is recommended that the discussion be preceded by an appropriate bribe of 10 silver coins or a treasure of equivalent value. Also note that goodly guildmasters will not volunteer additional information of this sort to evil mages, and may decline to help neutral mages in a case where the wand happens to be guarded by a goodly individual.

I'm not sure what else the original poster wants in the file-- they lost XP manually for roleplaying issues.

An evil guildmaster will happily take your bribe for information if you're a good-aligned PC, but it's probably not a method that good-aligned mages should seek out, especially since they have a wide range of alternative hint-givers. (See also the helpfile for Beseech.)

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Why shouldn't a good mage ask an evil guildmaster for help? Because he asks for coins? We don't all have 'detect evil' do we? Why is it ok to practice with an evil guildmaster, train with one, but not pay it a tiny sum for information?

Should goodies get punished for buying bread from an evil merchant? What if it's for a starving companion? Is the paladin's code "Thou shalt not associate with evil" applying to ALL goods? Doesn't that make it pointless to include it IN the paladin's code?

Does any of this nonsense matter or do we just like pissing in each others cheerios like a bunch of two year olds?

For this specific instance and this specific character who was penalized for this specific action, yes the choice was a bad one and one that could be avoided.

In most instances, good align PCs are not penalized for using evil guildmasters or merchants etc. There is however a rather obvious set of good align PCs where it would be frowned upon (and penalized if caught) where they decide to just 'pal' around with evil guildmasters and merchants.

I understand how you might think I meant this instance, but I didn't. He said it was not a good idea for good aligned mages to be asking evil guildmasters.

That's a judgment that should be held for specific instances. Any administrator or player viewing the situation should keep in mind that not everyone has detect alignment. There is nothing evil about asking for money to give a hint about something. Players can consider to know alignment, but characters don't have this information.

Unless we are saying that the consider command information regarding alignment is in character. In that case, might as well erase the detect alignment spells.

Now that I have experimented I know it works thusly.

You give the dude 10 silver and they say cool beans.
You then discuss and they give hint.

If you just discuss they say I could be bribed.

Destuvias is right that my character doesn't have the same standards as goodies in general. I am not disputing the sap in exp, just pointing out that I didn't get it from the help file and made a decision as a player that I wanted to understand the system and did something my char would not have done. That was in fact. The first and only time I even entered an evil guild for my class.

I feel like you didn't read my post.

Fine. I don't care about your situation. I called that lame elsewhere and I DO think it's lame and stupid. A god should have come down and slayed you, or stripped you of gear, or done any number of things that was an ACTUAL punishment. If it's so far against your character's roleplay to do it, then you should be punished.

However, again, this is NOT about your situation. It's about this quote from Valg above:

"An evil guildmaster will happily take your bribe for information if you're a good-aligned PC, but it's probably not a method that good-aligned mages should seek out, especially since they have a wide range of alternative hint-givers. (See also the helpfile for Beseech.)"

There is no reason this method should not be sought out by good-aligned mages, since good-aligned mages don't necessarily know if the guildmaster is evil to begin with. Even if the guildmaster asks for a bribe.

really

"Unless we are saying that the consider command information regarding alignment is in character. In that case, might as well erase the detect alignment spells."

For you specifically, since I think it's safe to assume you consider this information In Character: Why can't I consider players to know their alignment? (again, since you didn't read it the first time: ) Why do we need detect alignment abilities? While we are at it, we should probably paste alignment into the who list and stop with the nonsensical awkward questions about what alignment that human is. Just come right out at say it, "Hey bro, you evil or good or neutral or what?" This is a discussion about a line that exists concerning alignment (hur hur).

It's also hilarious that you tell me to read the help file when this thread wouldn't exist if you had read the help file. I hope you share that laugh with me.

Also, don't be a dolt.

Really.

Not ALL characters should be held to the 'paladins code' vision of goodly deeds.

On some level, it has to be OK for good to exploit the knowledge/etc of an evil as to benefit team good.

I am also a fan of nightgaunting goodly conjurers.


Since we don't know the values of the mage who got the XP sap in question, we cannot really pass judgement on that one situation.

Why the forums are so boring these days, I mean. It's just a bunch of people posting random things to assert their opinions without reading what anyone else writes.

My mistake then. I thought you were taking in the specific, not the general sense. Because I agree with you that in most instances the behavior is fine.

thanks for reading! Glad we have an accord.

To get xp sap for that. You aren't a paladin.

I'm sure I saw something about good align guild masters not helping evil guys or neutral guys when wand is on a good align mob.

>I'm sure I saw something about good align guild masters not
>helping evil guys or neutral guys when wand is on a good align
>mob.

This is correct. You're thinking of the HELP DISCUSS helpfile, of which the following may be excerpted:

"Also note that goodly guildmasters will not volunteer additional information of this sort to evil mages, and may decline to help neutral mages in a case where the wand happens to be guarded by a goodly individual."

nt