I've attached the spreadsheet I made to compare Raider vs Thief and Ranger. I'll give my first thoughts/executive summary below.

Daevryn asked about seasonal races some time back (and I only recently read it to catch up on CF) so I thought I'd do a comparison of skills between raiders and thieves.

Caveats: Thief build is level 42 (max thief points). I've equated some things that are comparable skills (i.e. grapple weapon vs. disarm).

Raider vs. Thief:

Big Goblin Only Skills (with no analog) : Fallback, Bloodletting, Toughness, Bloodsteep, Ululate, Track Prey, and the Archery skills (archery, poison/flaming arrow, rapid shot, aerial shot)

Big Thief Only Skills (with no analog): Detect Hidden, Peek, Haggle*, Detect Hidden, Lore*, Meditation*, from the basic set and ... Push, Weapon Butt Blackjack, Sucker Hit, Death Strike from thug path.

There are also some questionable comparisons... Kidney shot, Knife, Gouge, Smoke Bomb, Stench Cloud, Physical & Glowing Traps, Parting Block, and Gut Shot compare very favorably to Poison arrow, Bloodsteep, Flaming Arrow, Charge, Track Prey.

Backstab and Evade also come at 1/6 for Thief, instead of 33/26 for Raider. Skirt is 27 vs Circle at 15. Only Dual Wield favors the Raider at 15 to 25 for the Thief.

Overall, I wouldn't build this Thief, and it isn't super comparable, but I'd give the edge to thief at basically every level due to having detect hidden and the advantage in stealth.

I also thought maybe Raider vs. Ranger might be an interesting comparison... Unfortunately this one looks even worse for the Raider, IMHO. Ranger gets a lot of skills the Raider doesn't... Scrolls, Talismans, Acute Vision, Protect Heat/Cold, Shield Block, Lore*, Haggle*, Meditation*, Bait, Fashion Weapons, Aimed Shot, Waylay, Wilderness Familiarity, Snare

The skills line up remarkably well between Goblin and Hunter/Explorer Ranger, but not really in ways that favor the Raider class. It looks a lot like a Hunter Ranger can do everything the Goblin Raider can do (excepting trip+cheapshot since Hunter bearcharge is bunk) + a whole slew of extra offense and defense options. If you tack on resilience and watchful eye from explorer (you can't) you even get better utility in some very narrow situations.

Look at the spreadsheets, make your own conclusions, but that's my first thoughts.

* WHY DO YOU HATE LORE, MEDITATION, AND HAGGLE ON ORCS/GOBLINS?!?!?!?!!?


Final Thoughts:

Goblin hide doesn't feel very sneaky. In fact none of their skillset does because you fundamentally can't really stealth with the hide restrictions. Bard isn't a stealth class because it has sneak... neither is Raider.

Mounted combat sounds awesome, and I'm looking forward to checking that out, but.... there probably needs to be more in that space to make Raiders the warg riding hit and run type... Like a skill to keep your distance from between round strikes via the speed of the mount? Skirt works even if taking blows?

My suggestion would be to focus more on mounted archer and less on crappy rogue for new skills and abilities to give the Raider that signature flavor.

Attachment #1, (zip file)

So assume their inherent crappiness is in part their design. Really, 24 con and 24 dex is good enough that making their skills better would make goblins far better than maybe they were ever intended to be.

After spending a few hundred hours as one, goblins are laughable in PK. Trip + cheap shot is great, except against fly. Then, you basically have so few options that landing a solo kill will be sheer stupidity on the part of your opponent for the most part. However, all this is only a problem for the people playing them that want to be PK power houses, instead of just enjoying being a lackey little goblin bastard.

Mounted combat blows. Never stay mounted in a fight. Unless you like being disarmed and not being able to pick up your weapon. Skirt is circle, and that's where you get a sense of what goblins are. They are lackeys and part of a horde. And honestly, they can do that job amazing well as they are.

Even as part of horde, I don't see a goblin as more useful than literally any other option. So if you want a lackey, great, but you'd be better off with a Thief, Ranger, or another Orc (and pretty much only GSV lackey makes sense) as they would be much more dangerous.

Orc's slaves (and probably their purchasable mercs) are probably scarier than having a goblin PC in tow.

gr

Not a lot of players are equipped for that

You don't have to play as a lackey as a goblin (or roll them up with that intention), but really, that's still what a goblin is in the CF realm. Goblins are fodder in almost every fantasy realm, would it really make sense for a goblin hero to be running around with 300 pk wins?