Hi with all the negative talk around could you confirm cf will keep going for a good time yet. This would make many of us players very happy.

CHEERS

Some would say these stats...

http://mudstats.com/World/CarrionFields

... mean it's already ended.

An average of 15 people online and steadily falling. Prime time hours with 20ish players on. A night of 100 players drawing half that.

There will always be a handful of hanger-onners poking around, but CF is becoming a solo experience. (Literally, see the minimum number of players valleys at 1 online.)

I think if the staff of CF isn't interested in promoting, growing and saving their game they should make the code public, maintain their trademark, and allow parties interested in building something from the codebase to do so. Perhaps in this way a piece of CF may live on.

>they should make the code
>public, maintain their trademark, and allow parties interested
>in building something from the codebase to do so. Perhaps in
>this way a piece of CF may live on.

I don't see this happening and I still don't see us selling it to you, either.

Was a race car builder of some renown. In fact, his cars hold records at the Indy 500 that will never be broken because they are from when the Indy was a dirt track. He was not a rich man. He often couldn't feed his children. Someone he did not respect asked to buy his race car with an intent to see what was under the hood and copy it. My grandfather told him he would rather park it under his porch and piss on it every day until it rusted into the ground. To this day I do not know if my grandfather was a fool or a hero for doing that.

In my humble opinion, our race car is not collecting piss under the porch. We're still building our race car because it's never really "done" and we drive it every day too. We will continue to derive enjoyment from doing both of those things and we feel a sense of pride and satisfaction from knowing that others do too, even if it isn't as many as it was a decade ago.

I think if the staff of CF isn't interested in promoting, growing and saving their game

There is nothing stopping any player from promoting CF. Talking us up on various websites merely takes time and creativity. If you honestly want to grow the game, there's your route.

For what it's worth, Mendos has quietly been doing excellent work on this front, and we're seeing a small but steady stream of new players. The trick is retaining them, and that requires work on the game side. It would also be nice if we had more players doing constructive things instead of "poking the bear".

As for selling/giving you the codebase, I don't foresee that happening. If that's all your interested in, you've gotten your answer from several Implementors by now.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>I think if the staff of CF isn't interested in promoting,
>growing and saving their game
>
>There is nothing stopping any player from promoting CF.
>Talking us up on various websites merely takes time and
>creativity. If you honestly want to grow the game, there's
>your route.
>
>For what it's worth, Mendos has quietly been doing excellent
>work on this front, and we're seeing a small but steady stream
>of new players. The trick is retaining them, and that
>requires work on the game side. It would also be nice if we
>had more players doing constructive things instead of "poking
>the bear".
>
>As for selling/giving you the codebase, I don't foresee that
>happening. If that's all your interested in, you've gotten
>your answer from several Implementors by now.

Several implementors? I sent one implementor an email, Daevryn, and the first I heard back from him was just now. I also contacted the LLC owner, Matt Hamby, and Jullias because I didn't realize he passed the LLC to Matt. Neither of them are actively involved with CF now, and as such suggested contacting active implementors, which is why I contacted Daevryn.

If you aren't interested in making CF code public, or in licensing it to someone who may be interested in it, that's fine. No need to get silly. A polite "no thanks" to a polite request is all that's necessary.


>
>valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Several implementors? I sent one implementor an email,
>Daevryn, and the first I heard back from him was just now.

I'm not sure what happened there, then. There's a reply to you in my sent mail.

But there's not that much to it other than a "Sorry, I don't see that happening."

The only thing in my mailbox about or from Daevryn is an email from Twist in 2010 discussing the virtues of your svirf fires/autumn sword spec idea.

No biggy.

This was something I was thinking about the other day and since it's been brought up, I'll throw in my two cents.

If was starting out today, I don't see any way that I'd get hooked on CF. Mostly (for me) this boils down to the 1-10 (and to a lesser extent 11-20) levels. It isn't that there isn't anything to do. There is. In fact there is too much to do. Why group up and fly through 1-10 when I can grind some quests and get money/gear/etc... And there in lies the problem. I dislike doing that stuff. I'd rather just get to the pking, but I feel disadvantaged if I don't. So I
1) Don't group 1-10, basically ever.
2) Don't interact with other players in any meaningful fashion usually until ~20.
3) Find it incredibly difficult to start a character (and usually abandon them after 1 login) due to the perceived need to grind up skills/quests/etc. at low level instead of truly diving into the game.

I'm aware these are partly (or mostly?) my issues (and my more successful characters usually avoid this behavior through some miracle or another, and then actually get played), but I think the "kind to newbies" pendulum has gone a little too far and now we have made the low level game (especially) a totally solo experience filled with quest/skill/etc. grind instead of getting people directly into the action.

I'm not saying PK range should be at level 5 again, but that first burst of adrenaline probably needs to come in the first hour of CF life. Probably within the first 15 minutes. Can you honestly see a newbie getting in a PK within 2 hours of gameplay, and without that shot of "Oh crap that dude just killed me and stole my noobie breadz. Revenge!" how many of us would invest that kind of time?

Suggestion: Change PK to level 6 (see I totally didn't lie)
Suggestion: Remove all 1-10 quests (except maybe Simon, and make it pure RP, no rewards)
Suggestion: Make (especially) low level grouping very very beneficial to any player (new or vet) over going solo. Bonus learning %, ability to forgo xp, auto imm xp, whatever. You are smart, you can figure that out.
Suggestion: Give me bash at level 1 and 100% again. (Ok maybe that's not a real suggestion)
Suggestion: More (all?) group focused quests. Any quest should be completed as a group (all at once) rather than be a punishment for grouping (wolves, spiders, sentries, merchants, happy boots, etc. etc.)
Suggestion: Add an NPC-driven PK scenario to the Academy (give the noobs an adrenaline shot at the start, and a fighting chance or whatever... just keep them around long enough to pad my stats... err RP with)

Just some ideas from someone who doesn't really play anymore.

Mob killing quests should, without a doubt, count as credit to the whole group when one is killed. There really is no reason they shouldn't except maybe it's hard to code, but that is what Valg is for (seems like).

I think Tac is on the right track of giving more incentive to a player to be in a group.
But most of his ideas are not what I would have in mind even if they are close.

-I'm not sure that lowering the PK level will help with the newbies staying.
-Removing all lowbie quests? That sounds lame, maybe removing or lowing the exp boost they give.
Or make the quests more group oriented. (This sounds like a huge undertaking.)
-I love the making especially lowbie grouping very beneficial.
Even if it is just a sizable buff from 5-25 that you get for being in a group for your skill learns.
-MOAR BASH. ^_^
-Yes, group quests good.
-NPC pwning machine...sounds like a bad idea.

As an aside, PLAY MOAR. *pokes Tac* ^_^

Oh! Newbie pk at level 5 in the academy they can kill other level 5's with no con loss.
Like a semi-pk intro. You would have to give the winner exp enough to bump them to level 6
out of pk range after one or two of these and make instant item retrieval from corpse.

Sounds like a lot of work... it probably is. But it might be fun.

But rather than tinkering with PK levels and so on, the main issue is the total lack of a support network.

I joined after the 2000s, most of you guys were PKing the cr*p out of my character by then. What kept me playing was the knowledge that other newbies like me were equally useless. There was steady and constant immteraction, the Inn of the Eternal Star used to average 5-6 players during the day and 10+ in the afternoons/evenings. Even though the game was nowhere near as polished, or professional as it is today and lacked the depth it does there were fun things to do to occupy disadvantaged players.

All of these things lack these days. I can attract newbies to the MUD in trickles (which I have been somewhat successful in lately) but there needs to be a newbie-friendly environment (outside of PK) to break people into the game. The hardest thing is getting enough newbies together at one time to get them working with one another.

Edit: Furthermore the imm staff can manage some aspects of the marketing and events side, but the player base really needs to work with us on this one also. Imms have a limited number of hours in their day, and limited resources to spread over a number of players. Players are the lifeblood of the game who keep things ticking over, and make things enjoyable when the Imms (for whatever reason) cannot be around.

-Mendos

Imm rewards for helping newbies learn. I don't mean dragging them around giving them gear. I mean helping them learn what to do to stay alive, get gold, learn, and general tips. Things that will help a newbie with every char they play. Think I got 100 imm exp for this the other day but I wouldn't mind having an edge bearing exp category that can only be earnt by teaching newbies. Not high end teaching, but basic fundamentals.

Any suggestions are welcome. I am on the same page with you here.

I have been trying, as I am sure some of the more frequent players have noticed, to be a presence in the Newbie Academy and boost newbie morale or give them a welcoming MUD environment.

I do keep tabs on newbies, or very infrequent players that are at close to newbie status and try to get little immteractions and EXP bonuses going.

As some of the current heroimms move on up, which takes time, I am certain there will be a lot more of this.

I would like to run an entirely newbie oriented event and get players on board also at some point in the future, when the time is right.

Ultimately we can only do so much as staff. Some of the responsibility to making sure the game is engaging and fun has to also come from the players. Basically the Imms and the player base need to coexist in (some kind of) symbiosis.

Edit: Also just going back to address the core of your post, having reread, that was the focus of revamping the newbie documentation. Given time and energy I will probably attempt to do some webcasts that run through fundamentals (via a couple of newbie-friendly classes) with command logs attached to the revamped document. I have also been mapping some common low-level areas. I will probably map the core newbie areas first (which are nearly completed) and then add more maps over time.

And will do whatever I can to help.

What made me fall in love with MUDs was having an IMM jump into Farmer Griff on an old MUD I used to play (was my first ever character, a human berserker named Yul) and chase me and some other newbie around for like 45 minutes.

What made me fall in love with CF was Muuloc jumping into the sculptor in South Dairein and talking to my sorry ass after I got WTFPWN'd by Greeting (I remember being so confused as to why a dwarf bashed me into the dirt and I was a Fire Giant...stupid legacies).

I'm very tempted to roll a character specifically to interact with new characters. I just can't figure out the best way to do it...

I had an elf who Thrakburzug rescued from the Galadon Sewer pit at level 12 for an unknown favor at another point in time.

He later pitted me against an orc clan member in a fight to the death for his amusement at a later date (I lost).

It is the little immteractions and the unexpected moments that drew me to CF and held my interest.

If you are interested in helping out with newbies in future, there might be a way to do so. For now I need to get my area done and get some critical infrastructure in place. When that is done I'll discuss options with the other staff.

Until that point if you see anyone asking "how to find darsylon?" over then newbie channel, just pitch in and give them a little assistance with a low-level character. Also, try to show them CF in a good light.

I'm happy to give out IMM XP when I see people helping newbies (and I have). Unfortunately, it is one of those things that is difficult to passively notice and reward.

I know people have suggested various means by which those rewards could be player-initiated, but I'm just not interested in that.

Help each other out, be respectful and sporting, and if we happen to find out you're taking the time to be a resource to less experienced players we will do our best to pay it forward. How's that?

>But rather than tinkering with PK levels and so on, the main
>issue is the total lack of a support network.

I believe you missed my main point, or I wasn't clear, or you just disagree, but in the case of the first two I'll try to clarify.

The suggestions I made weren't to make it easier for a newbie directly. The gist of it was to give me (not a newbie) a reason to actually interact with a genuine newbie for my own benefit. While you can appeal to my better nature and get something (if/when I play again) you'll get much more consistent and widespread results by making it advantageous to my character to interact (PK, RP, Ranking, etc.) at a low level.

As it is, the best things I can do with my pre-10 (and to a large extent my pre-20) levels is to grind out explore/observation xp, quests with rewards, and skill gains. Currently, from a mechanical point of view, I don't believe there is any advantage to *not* doing all of that solo.

Here's a couple more ideas: Make observation/exploration in a group more profitable somehow. Off the top of my head, more exp per "point" found. Some sort of auto "detection" of explore points (for groups). Some sort of echo/auto look for: Hey groupmate 1 looked at X and it looked interesting... you see:

Skill/spell/song/sup gains much higher for the same level npc in a group. I'm killing it faster (there are 2 or 3 of us), so gather some stats and figure out how to make it so I'll learn skills faster in a group than I ever could solo, regardless of the level NPC my group can handle (sometimes the group sucks and perfect match is tough). For instance, with my last svirf I perfected dodge/parry/shield block in something like 2 hours of dedicated practice. 2 hours of group action wouldn't get me anywhere close and I'd get 5 levels which make it harder and make me more vulnerable to PK.

Seriously, all quests should be group do-able and the level of a lot of low-level quests should be raised both minimum (PK range) and maximum (you can only get like 2 ranks off wolves anyway).

Even pking a newbie is an interaction that might keep them interested in the game, but if they wanted to play a solo text game, they need not come to CF...

.

I was a little surprised, given your usual posting style.

Go talk us up on a MUD site or something instead.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

.

I recall that someone was working on it at some point.

But if the IMPs were to let the code genie out of the bottle, I see there being a potentially large number of possible problems arising. Almost every time the code has been stolen in the past, a spin-off has arisen and stolen players from CF. There are a whole host of spin-off MUDs:

-Solace MUD (Defunct)
-Dark Mists (Virtually Defunct)
-POS

And many others.

If you think that someone wouldn't mirror CF and split the potential player base down the middle then you have to be crazy. Really. This has always been the historical outcome of a code leak.

Just based on rhetoric coming out of unofficial forums there are a significant number of people who think our team are doing a fairly bad job. Naturally the players and ex-staff have the right to criticize, and they have the prerogative to frequent, or not to frequent this game. But it would be pretty naïve to think that everyone everywhere has potentially genuine and honest intentions toward the game, or more perhaps appropriately the staff.

I don't think some people comprehend* how many hours of labor have been invested in the proprietary code, or the areas, or the quests. (I am ~400 hours into my area, though admittedly I am slow, ) and area writing is just the first stage, it still needs to be vetted. It would be heartbreaking to see someone use the proprietary material we have to further fragment the player base and to kill the game off. I really do see that as the realistic outcome.

It isn't about power, or dominating the player base for any of the staff. At this stage it is about surviving and prospering in an increasingly tricky environment. If anything this is the time when the (ex/current)players and the staff- anyone who still loves this game and feels invested in it- need to stand together, put aside old grievances, and start figuring out credible solutions which operate within a reasonable and realistic framework.

*This genuinely seems to be a sticking point between the staff and the players. I cannot speak for others staff members, but personally I'm a volunteer, and I consider myself as such. I don't want anyone to think the staff are martyrs, or saints, but it needs to be recognized that a huge amount of effort and time (still) goes into keeping things going. The sticking point and friction builds when players think they have amazing ideas but do not grasp the order and magnitude of work which has to be done to bring the ideas to fruition. So from some player's perspectives we are doing a terrible job, or are only looking out for ourselves, or even worse, do not care about the player base.

It isn't true at all. I for one love this game and the community, otherwise I wouldn't have volunteered. I am relatively confident that most, if not all of the staff feel the same way to one degree or another.

In an ideal universe we would have unlimited resources to make everything possible: Kongregate portals, huge marketing campaigns, ads on popular channels and graphical MUD interfaces. Ultimately we work with limited resources and I think sometimes being on the outside of the staff, that gets lost in translation. I am sure there are also some misconceptions going the other way (staff to player base) also.


Edit: And solutions mean more than just talk (as I am sure you know if you come from a business background). It means identifying the problems and getting things done.

>But if the IMPs were to let the code genie out of the bottle,
>I see there being a potentially large number of possible
>problems arising. Almost every time the code has been stolen
>in the past, a spin-off has arisen and stolen players from CF.
> There are a whole host of spin-off MUDs:
>
>-Solace MUD (Defunct)
>-Dark Mists (Virtually Defunct)
>-POS
>
>And many others.
>
>If you think that someone wouldn't mirror CF and split the
>potential player base down the middle then you have to be
>crazy. Really. This has always been the historical outcome
>of a code leak.

Having spoken with the creators of these failed MUDs I think they would tell you one of their biggest problems was their player base only played their MUD when they couldn't play CF because of time and/or connection. Ultimately, players "lost" to these MUDs were recovered. Which is not to make a counterpoint, rather to complete the narrative you started.

>
>Just based on rhetoric coming out of unofficial forums there
>are a significant number of people who think our team are
>doing a fairly bad job. Naturally the players and ex-staff
>have the right to criticize, and they have the prerogative to
>frequent, or not to frequent this game. But it would be
>pretty naïve to think that everyone everywhere has
>potentially genuine and honest intentions toward the game, or
>more perhaps appropriately the staff.
>
>I don't think some people comprehend* how many hours of labor
>have been invested in the proprietary code, or the areas, or
>the quests. (I am ~400 hours into my area, though admittedly
>I am slow, >marketing, mapping, altering newbie documentation etc.]) and
>area writing is just the first stage, it still needs to be
>vetted. It would be heartbreaking to see someone use the
>proprietary material we have to further fragment the player
>base and to kill the game off. I really do see that as the
>realistic outcome.
>
>It isn't about power, or dominating the player base for any of
>the staff. At this stage it is about surviving and prospering
>in an increasingly tricky environment. If anything this is
>the time when the (ex/current)players and the staff- anyone
>who still loves this game and feels invested in it- need to
>stand together, put aside old grievances, and start figuring
>out credible solutions which operate within a reasonable and
>realistic framework.
>
>*This genuinely seems to be a sticking point between the staff
>and the players. I cannot speak for others staff members, but
>personally I'm a volunteer, and I consider myself as such. I
>don't want anyone to think the staff are martyrs, or saints,
>but it needs to be recognized that a huge amount of effort and
>time (still) goes into keeping things going. The sticking
>point and friction builds when players think they have amazing
>ideas but do not grasp the order and magnitude of work which
>has to be done to bring the ideas to fruition. So from some
>player's perspectives we are doing a terrible job, or are only
>looking out for ourselves, or even worse, do not care about
>the player base.
>
>It isn't true at all. I for one love this game and the
>community, otherwise I wouldn't have volunteered. I am
>relatively confident that most, if not all of the staff feel
>the same way to one degree or another.
>
>In an ideal universe we would have unlimited resources to make
>everything possible: Kongregate portals, huge marketing
>campaigns, ads on popular channels and graphical MUD
>interfaces. Ultimately we work with limited resources and I
>think sometimes being on the outside of the staff, that gets
>lost in translation. I am sure there are also some
>misconceptions going the other way (staff to player base)
>also.
>
>
>Edit: And solutions mean more than just talk (as I am sure you
>know if you come from a business background). It means
>identifying the problems and getting things done.
>
>

I think the CF code can be licensed in such a way as to prevent "mirroring" as you say. Recreating a mirror CF would be a mistake, as CF has (almost) no one playing it anymore. There is, however, a substantial foundation upon which a viable game could be produced. It would avail nothing to "steal" any or all of CF's player base as it is not large enough to maintain a vibrant gaming experience. What you may be able to do is recapture some of CF's hundreds, or possibly thousands, of disenfranchised/dissatisfied/disinterested previous users by providing a similar gaming experience without the factors that drove them away. Even so doing you would still need to acquire your own core of non-CF players.

From my perspective CF staff has done an excellent job on code related decisions, but historically has unnecessarily propagated a divisive and adversarial relationship with its users. This while all but entirely ignoring the acquisition of new users and diversified talent among its staff. I don't think there is a fruitful discussion to be had about it and I do not wish to twist the proverbial knife in anyone's heart. Individually I like the CF staff very much, but collectively I am very disappointed with where you all have brought us. Subjective arguments aside, there is but one objective measure of a game: how many play it.

I have tremendous respect for the value of the investment the staff has made to create CF. It is because of my respect and love of that amalgamation of effort that I make these comments. I'm probably wasting my energy to write even as much as I have, but your post was so thoughtful and well spoken I wanted to reply. I look at the current user base, 15 average players online, and say, "it's over." It's too much to hope someone among the staff would make the code public or license it with certain conditions and effectively say, "Think you can do better? Go ahead."

Perhaps you should consider this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2014/06/12/tesla-goes-open-source-elon-musk-releases-patents-to-good-faith-use/

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply, I really do appreciate it and I admire your passion for this game. Also I can personally respect the need to do something about game's numbers. Incidentally numbers aren't as terrible as the averages make out. They're down, but not alarmingly so as the average loses the very low early morning numbers, and higher afternoon/evening numbers. Also keep in mind that I am a current heroimm so there are more relevant parties to talk to regarding most things. However, should you wish to discuss anything with me, I'll always take the time to respond respectfully.

Regarding the Forbes article: Tesla is a corporate that exists in an enormous potential growth market and has a market cap. of ~28.5 billion dollars. Comparing Tesla to CF is like comparing a whale to a minnow.

Furthermore, regarding comments on licensing out code: you would be very hard pushed to recreate even a CF-like environment without substantial access to finance. Bearing in mind that establishing, advertising, and marketing a brand new game would be sunk costs in terms of labor hours and money with no guaranteed ROI (unless the game was for profit), it probably would not be wise to do so in an already shrinking niche market. (Part of the reason why marketing to new players is so unpopular is because it is pretty difficult to achieve a steady flow of players, or retain them. It's a sunk cost in terms of time and effort: the only reason I attempt to do it is because I love this game, and the community.)

With regards to past and present trajectories, misgivings about staff and disenfranchised players:

For people with misgivings about the way the staff run the game, or the direction things are moving in, the following should be considered:
- CF is 20 years old and it is still free to use.
- CF has outlasted all of its competitors to my knowledge. Even if other MUDs based on our code are still active, we still have more players than them in most cases.
- The staff still manage a close to 24 hour coverage and continue to work for the game with no recompense (nor would they want any if push came to shove.)
- CF has a tremendous wealth of history and sentimental value which cannot be replaced.

These things cannot be captured in any new CF variant, and honestly at this stage I doubt most of the staff would care to hang around if 50% of our current player base up and migrated to a new flavor of the month CF variant. While I cannot speak for any others, I certainly would not. Based on the immense difficulties posed in setting up and maintaining a new MUD it might actually be that CF Mk2 MUD with large uncertainties in its future and CF would both kick the bucket within 18 months if we, as a community, took that route.

As you mentioned, there are a lot of old grievances, grudges and misgivings out there. If people do truly care about CF, regardless of their previous experiences with the staff, then it's probably time to consider trying to forget the past. The one thing after its initial establishment that has allowed CF to outshine its copycats, its competitors (most of which are for profit now), and has allowed it to persevere for this long, is its community. That means everyone: staff and players included. The staff are not perfect, or infallible, but they might just be the best hope the community has to give this MUD a future. Players are the foundation which the staff needs to rebuild game numbers.

So I will reiterate: it's probably time to bury the past now and look to the future. If we cannot do that as a community then we might one day regret the consequences. Only a truly small fraction of past players and staff actually detest this game to the point where they would do it harm. Thus I would assume that most of the folk, who still read these (and other) boards actually would like to see CF thrive again. That's a common belief which is shared amongst all of us so progress shouldn't be impossible. We owe it to ourselves and one another as players and community members to try and move forward.

Edit: I should add I am not a "PR guy" for the Imm Staff, or a naïve heroimm, though undoubtedly some will probably think that. I'm not out to make a good impression and get promoted up the chain within the system (keep me at 52 for all I care). I am a player, and typically a rather cynical individual, who felt the need to contribute when Zulg left the staff and I just want to see this game and community move forward, and try to get our playerbase numbers up.

no texty text

Of tesla with cf would only hold if pcs were too rare to build a playerbase, and by releasing cf code cf hoped to have new rivals encourage the purchase of pcs, thereby growing the available market which cf could lead.

Tesla decision is all about getting infrastructure built, enabling them to control segments of a large market instead of a very small one that lacks infrastructure.

I don't see the game going away as long as there are people who want to run it and the money doesn't run out, neither of which are currently at risk.

To me, CF is at its best when it is a social game. Meaning, friends are playing and killing each other, logs are active, things are happening to draw people in, and all of this is -visible-. It's why qhcf is so effective at reigniting the desire to play (logs, theory crafting, new areas, discussions, etc).

CF needs something more visible outside of the game. I think the best way to do that is a Carrion Fields dashboard.

The dashboard would be an interactive chart similar but more nuanced to the qhcf pk stats site ( http://qhcf.net/premium/pkstats.php ). It would contain different metrics at a week, month, and year level that can be pivoted to display different filters like race, class, cabal, alignment, and ethos.

What are some fun metrics?

Successful raids
- total
- by opposition

Retrievals
- total
- by opposition

Playerkills
- count
- average weight (using A-P unholy weight)
- average gank-o-meter

Playerdeaths
- count
- average gank-o-meter

Then there could be an additional call-out for:

Top PKer of week (using A-P unholy weight, not kill count)
Top Raider of week (most raids, weighted for opposition)
Top Retriever of week (most retrievals, weighted for opposition)
Most wanted of week (longest running active criminal)
Highest Bounty for the week
Goat of the week (highest gank-o-meter or most ganky or combo of the two)

Yes, I'm sure this would call for better tracking of things at a pfile level. Hopefully the framework mostly exists. But anyway, CF needs something that shows what is going on and encourages the right kind of achievements to keep drawing people back into the game.

I don't really have anything to add, but things like this, and the auto twitter-tweets - I really like.

Ideas similar to what you are describing have been tossed around before. The reason(s) you haven't seen something like this yet probably include:

A) We've always been hesitant to introduce things that encourage "griefy" behavior, the lowering of RP bars for the sake of PK, or things of a similar tune. In the past the happy medium has always been PBFs. While I can see the value of this idea and ideas like it, I would also be concerned that something like an official "PK ladder" or the like would diminish sportsmanlike PKing and make the game less enjoyable for those who aren't necessarily as competitive in PK.

B) As is often the case, and I apologize if this seems like a token answer, but nobody has been interested enough to champion the idea. That means planning it, pitching it and getting buy-in, and then actually contributing the wrench time to code it.

i think it should be built around the pk value instead of raw pk. you guys could/should probably go ahead and add that already to killing blows as a subsequent echo, something that indicates the worthiness of the pk a la how anti-paladin charges work.

at some point, too many low value pks would actually lower a players 'score', and multi-killing the low hanging fruit would really screw your 'score' up.

this encourages higher level play + visibility of an action oriented game.

here's the thing, though - you gotta do something. heck, i'll gladly apply (again) to immorting and champion it if you want.

I'm not aware of any such plans, and a lots of staff members are working on active projects. If we were planning to wind things down, we wouldn't be doing things like revamping Emerald Forest.

It would be especially helpful if certain people would stop making things up.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I like making things up.

.

I just don't see the point.

.

I always lose track of which people are trolling and which people believe what they're posting.

For example, I like to think that nobody really has a big enough ego to believe that despite most of the staff having full time jobs, kids, other hobbies, etc., they're still somehow important enough to us that we make time in our busy schedules to plot against them for daring to disagree with us, or something. Maybe this is the CF forum equivalent of kayfabe.

>For example, I like to think that nobody really has a
>big enough ego to believe that despite most of the staff
>having full time jobs, kids, other hobbies, etc., they're
>still somehow important enough to us that we make time in our
>busy schedules to plot against them for daring to disagree
>with us, or something. Maybe this is the CF forum equivalent
>of kayfabe.

My favorite 'heel' archetype is That Guy/Gal who hates CF so very much that it requires them hanging around various CF websites to proclaim it in great detail.

I mean, if I thought a game was terrible and run by people who cheat and come up with surprisingly elaborate plots to kill my 20s-ranked warrior through warcry adjustments and a refusal to grant the last name 'the Guy What is Deathfull'... I'd go find something else to do with my time.

(My three hours a day telling the Hello Kitty Island Adventure development team to improve the artillery system is consulting, a more noble profession.)

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Now I want to check out the Hello Kitty Island Adventure artillery system. I already spend to much time playing this game.

It is exactly for reasons like this that I stopped reading Dio's YEARS ago. Basically, the only things I open on those forums are logs.

=w=

The community is actually mostly really helpful.

Much like in real life, often times you have to wade through the #### to find the prize.

Why should every such statement require a counter statement when the evidence shows the imms have continued to make changes designed to improve the game right up to the present?