While brainstorming a bit, I had an idea about shifters that I'd like to share. Shifters, more that any class in CF, rely significantly on the whims of the RNG. In some ways receiving random forms can be fun and interesting; however, in many other ways it leads to some undesirable consequences. The main one is that random forms encourage "serial shifters" -- that is, players that repeatedly create, power-rank, delete, and re-create shifters until they get the form(s) that they want. This has been mitigated somewhat with the "Spin the Bottle" type edges, but in the end, one can still end up disappointed. And whereas the mantra is that the game "doesn't begin at Hero," many shifters will wait until they are sure that they got the forms they wanted before they flesh out their role and character.

Warriors can choose specs/legacies, thieves/shamans can choose paths, rangers can choose terrains/expertise, invokers can choose affinities, conjurers can choose summons, bards can choose repertoires... and on it goes. Why can't shapeshifters choose their forms?

Two obvious reasons are:
1) Some forms are incredible and others are junk. In an ideal MUD the forms would be perfectly balanced, or the RNG would balance your strengths/weaknesses, but unfortunately it is not this way in CF.
2) If everyone could choose their forms, the variety would be lost and we'd see the same "best" forms again and again.

So my idea is this: give players the option to get random forms for free (as it is now), or let them choose their own forms for a special cost. As HP is the lifeblood of shifters, make the cost a PERMANENT reduction in the player's max HP. For example:

-Tier 4 cost: 10 max HP (make this relatively cheap since it's the first one)
-Tier 3 cost: 30 max HP
-Tier 2 cost: 40 max HP
-Tier 1 cost: 50 max HP

The numbers can be tweaked for balance. Upon being eligible for a new form, the shifter can either attain a random form for free by entering some command OR return to their guild and talk to their guildmaster about choosing a form. An example message for flavor/RP would be something like: "You dedicate a small/large/huge portion of your lifeforce into drawing forth your inner {form name}." Using the example numbers above, choosing all forms would cost a very painful 250 HP.

Other ideas could include using trains instead of max HP (though this buffs gnomes vs. other races) or giving the forms different costs depending on the (perceived) power level. Or maybe even a refund for the worst forms, to give them some semblance of balance? For example, on final forms:

-Crazy PK Form: -80 Max HP
-Average Balanced Form: -50 Max HP
-Weaker But Interesting Form: -20 Max HP
-Makes-you-hate-yourself-and-want-to-delete Form: +20 Max HP

I don't think my perspective is unique in regards to the shifter "problem." It really hurts to have "of the eight final forms, I would really like one of these three" and then get none of them even with the extra edge cost. Looking forward to some constructive feedback, maybe even a change!

Thanks.

Someone might have better method of gathering this than I have, but just by going through the graveyard (4 pr 5 last pages), I noted down hours/level and caballed for all chars/classes. Wanted to see if there was any hold to the idea of more shifters deleting at lower levels compared to other classes.

So for the 18 first shifters/warriors/rangers (These were the only ones that had 18 or more deleted in the graveyard (which means delete after level 30).

The stats so far. N=18 for each class
Shifters: Hours on average : 66,1, Level: 40,5
Warriors: Hours on average : 113, Level: 44,2
Rangers : Hours on average : 97, Level: 38,4

The challenge with such a low amount of chars is that some very longlived chars influence the chart to a greater degree. This is solved by increasing N. (The average hours for the last 25 warriors is: 123,7

The thing that was perhaps the most interesting on the battleground data collection is: 0 druids, 1 healer, 2 paladins, 3 AP's, 4 orcs, and 3 necromancers where part of the last 4 or 5 pages of deleted chars.

Started at Search 13.06.2014
First char Brinderbaum
Ended at Mrehya

Im sure someone could easily mine this information to see if there is some validity to the statement that shifters delete more frequently than other classes or "power levels". I could go through the weaknesses of this design but the numbers are interesting enough to warrant further investigation.

Personally I think the randomness of the class hinders more than strengthen the class/rp. Id be much more inclined to put more effort into a role where I focused on an area like "reptilian" for my major focus and have it be random for my minor focus. That way you would keep some of the flavor but also allow players to have some predictability.

Cheers Lars

Shifters should choose a "family" of forms. It doesn't make a ton of sense in character that someone who learns all the ins and outs of a bobcat would suddenly then learn about Walruses (Walri? What the hell is the plural of Walrus?). An animal family path, with increasing form strength and differing abilities makes sense in that you have studied that form (e.g. I've learned a ton about medium cats. Time to see if I can reach for a large cat form instead of trying to become a bird.). It also follows better with RP in that you aren't "I'm the defense guy". It's "I've studied the feline form" with some offense, defense, and utility sprinkled across the levels. It might also get those lower tiers some more use after you hero.

Also, please help a worthy cause.
http://www.petitiononline.com/WALRI/petition.html

It would probably require some rebalancing of existing forms tho. But it'd finally make my werewolf character ideas possible!

> Warriors can choose specs/legacies, thieves/shamans can choose paths, rangers can choose terrains/expertise, invokers can choose affinities, conjurers can choose summons, bards can choose repertoires... and on it goes. Why can't shapeshifters choose their forms?

That's exactly it. The classes have different mechanics where possible so there's probably some class(es) with mechanics you like.

Some players really love the gambler aspect of shifters. (Which, no, is not present if the randomness is just an option.)

I am aware that the randomness is one of the unique mechanics of the class, but I still feel that it encourages throwaway characters. I can roll a shifter with certain goals in mind... perhaps exploration or perhaps PK, spend 100+ hours getting to hero, and then find that I even though I chose optimal foci, I end up with a combination that won't work. Why not let there be some choice for a (severe) cost?

If we allowed players to take the randomness out of shapeshifters I think it's fair and realistic to say that the consequences would probably not make it an attractive proposition to most players anyway. That is to say, the penalty for <most offensive form> + <highest regen form> on a stick would be far, far higher than 50-100 points of something that your average Scion shifter can triple through gear and cabal powers.

If you want to tailor make a build that has just the right blend of offense/defense/utility for your taste, the right approach isn't figuring out how to re-architect shapeshifters to make that a guarantee, but instead to play something like a warrior where it is merely a matter of ability.

Lastly, whether one has particularly "bad luck" (in one's opinion), receives forms they've already had, or for any other reason don't feel their forms are adequate I think the swap edges address those circumstances well enough that re-rolling (the character) should never feel like one's only viable option to be competitive.

How about letting the swap edges be taken more than once, perhaps at an increased cost each time ala Extra Training?

I know personally that I have tried Utility/Utility to get one specific form and used both edges. Four shots and no go--quite frustrating. And that was my third Utility/X shifter. So the only option is "if at first you don't succeed..."?

Thanks for the Imm responses, I appreciate it.

And completely addresses throwaway shapeshifters. Want to keep rolling forms? Use up tons and tons if not all of your edge points. But at least you keep the character.

NT

Generally, shifters have been touched enough that they aren't likely top of anyone's to do list. Even if they were, the costs are not enough to outweigh the benefits. I would eat 200 hp on a gnome shifter to choose my final forms. Anyways, I do think the idea of assigning costs to forms based on perceived value could be interesting. I think it would be more like you have to take an edge before even getting your final forms, then get eight points to spend on both major forms. Maybe lion and gorilla each take eight, so you can only choose the lowest of your other form and end up with giant wasp or lemur. Could be interesting, but don't see it changing.