I was sitting around earlier thinking and for some odd reason my mind shifted to this subject having just played a character with camo. Wood-elves only have have the ability to detect characters in camo when they are in the room with them, yet both duergars and and svirfs dont have this same restriction. I was wondering if there was a reason behind this or if it was just something that was never looked at. To me it would make more sense for all three races to work similar to the wood-elf style, being that they are not specifically trained in the art of detecting invis/hidden/camo but rather they have the knowledge of what to look for to see those affected by each when they are near. Just a thought.

Peace,

CF

I like the idea, but it'd be more appealing if each of these races could still use "where" in conjunction with a character's name, and locate them in an area if they are hidden/invis/camo, much like how certain conjurer familiars work. The reason for this is that, as you said, they aren't specifically trained in the Bridge School of Detecting Hidden Things, but if they focus a bit they can sense someone who is out of normal view. Also, they should always be able to see these people on the "who" list, even if they are currently hidden in some fashion...that way only the svirfs and duergars who are not paying attention to their PK range have much to worry about. Due to the more limited nature of camouflage, I'd like to see that stay exactly as it is in regards to wood-elves' innate detection.

I think stealth classes would benefit greatly from this, while the races affected wouldn't be compromised very much.


Example Log:

(100hp 100m 100mv 3tnl) where
Duergar The Muddy Battlefront
OtherGuy The Muddy Battlefront
TokenTrannie The Muddy Battlefront

(100hp 100m 100mv 3tnl) who arial
(35 Arial Asn) StalkingYou the Uki Goshi

(100hp 100m 100mv 3tnl) where StalkingYou
StalkingYou Outside the Western Wall


Make sense?


-Mek

dotdotdot

Splntrd

With a relatively simple script you could mirror the current functionality. The only people who would not have the current functionality would be people who aren't decent at using their mudding client, and those folks are generally going to be newbies.

"New payment options w/ Iron Realms"

Actually, this would greatly benefit stealth classes, and less-so the others. Consider, assassins and thieves both have sneak, and so doing "where StalkingYou" wouldn't find him, due to the fact that sneaking characters cannot be found by "where <playername>". Shapeshifters, orcs, and such could still be found, and most of a svirfnebli's people could be found specifically that way. Keep in mind also, that *ANYONE* could be invisible, and theoretically, to be certain you were safe, a svirfnebli would have to do "where <playername>" for each person in his pk. That's spam I really wouldn't want to see when I have 20 people in pk. I actually somewhat like the idea, and think it'd be a lot more of a downgrade for duergar/svirfnebli than you suggest.

From what I can recall about the conjurer familiars whose unique "where" ability I was trying to mimic, they can use the command and locate sneaking players. I agree with your point about svirfs having to spam where for every player name--that would suck. Come to think of it, there are so many ways to get detect invis in the game (easy ways, might I add) that leaving the svirfneblin auto-detect the way it is would probably be absolutely fine. I still like the notion of tweaking duergar eyeballs, however.

Yuck that's just annoying.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Just wait until my svirf dies.

Can see camo when in the room. Therefore, cannot be ambushed.

Can see hidden when in the same room. Can still be blackjacked, backstabbed, assassinated.

What you are missing is that acute vision actually covers camo, which is a more powerful hide ability than hide or invis. Fully negating camo would be far more powerful than fully negating hide.

Damned Nerf Herders...

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I'm not sure you quite understood my meaning. My thought was that perhaps duergars and svirfs should have their detection abilities reduced to match that of the wood-elves. They would be able to see hidden or insivible people in the room with them, but not on the who/where/etc.

CF

Drastically limiting or reducing the utility of something that alot of people like, is commonly referred to as "nerfing" it.


He pulled a line from Star Wars,and called you a "nerf-herder", as you seem to want to see duergar and svirfs "nerfed".


Is it just me, or does having to explain it ruin some of the funny?



"Death awaits ya all, wit nasteh big pointeh teeth!"

nt

Another thing to think about, at least as far as duergars go. The fact that they have detect hiddent makes it near pointless to play a thief of any align save for evil.
*shrugs*

Two more cents,

CF

I don't particularly agree with that, but YMMV.

WTF AFAIK meant.

Are you going to dangle YMMV from me too?

Gah! I'm starting to speak his language.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

And I agree with Nep. The original poster is on drugs if he thinks thieves are either useless or somehow hamstrung by duergs. No matter what happens, all the duerg can do is see the thief. That just means it's a race to see who can strike first, and the thief can still get that jack/poison/whatever off first.

When coupled with abilities of the varying classes thieves and assassins are at a distinct disadvantage against any duergars simply because they can see the them anywhere.(save for assassins in the woods) On a whole how many good aligned thieves do you see compared with the number of evil thiefs? It isn't pure considence that the number of evil thieves are higher just because of the greed aspect. They are hamstrung by duergars whether you have the insight to realise it or not. Further more I seem to remember imperial thieves getting kudos for just staying hidden while raiders took out the inners only to steal the codex of raider that fell the last one. This is almost an utter impossibility for a good thief to pull off unless by some stroke of luck there is for once no duergars in range.

The basic idea behind what I was saying in the first place is not to eliminate duergar detect hidden or svirf detect invis all together but to limit it to a shorter range than everywhere. It would give a little more balancing for the thieves/assassins that get summoned and ganked by a pair of duergars. As well as making the svirf wanna be ragers work a little harder to get those mage kills pre truesight/induction.

CF

#### if I know

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Just avoid duergar, as they are your bane.

Yes, it would be nerfing duergar, but it would be a huge removal of nerf-like material from Hide. To consider this overall change is a 'nerf' is silly.


Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker