Please make gate a level 30 spell. At level 13 you can't outrun it, you'll run out of movement. It's rare to see a healer abusing that but every now and then you get one like the one now.

Thinking about this more over the last few days, I did decide one particular scenario is a little unfair. I will address it shortly.

you're gonna have a tough time with the rest of the game.

Seriously, not kidding. Every class has like one PK strategy at that range and no other options. If you can't think of an effective plan to beat a gate spam healer that only is only using one rather dinky strategy (chase you with gate and spam murder), you've got a lot of problems and that healer is totally the least of them.

For what it's worth, this is wrong. My other active characters are 20 & 3 and 25 and 4 respectively, so far, at about 50 hours in.

There's a reason why people like Shapaa and Alex choose that combo to grief the low ranks at - it's because it is effective and it works and the reason it's effective and it works is because of a loophole where gate is available at a rank far too low. Are you saying they're stupid and they don't know how to play? It's the same reason I have to post anonymously because people endlessly trash anyone who wants a change to anything.

The typical reaction to "hey, this should be changed" is to tell people the 4 hour solutions like farming gold endlessly and carrying a lowbie saves set (fine leather?!) or camping Draenettie or underwater for 2 hours just for dealing with one person. Mind you, after posting a thread suggesting that observe points be changed to reduce the amount of time waste at those levels. To me, the answer is just to change that particular skill to be less easy to abuse - either by making it require trust at low levels or upping the level that you can use it.

A defeatist attitude will kill you far more surely than the gating healer ever would.

Grab some saves, carry around a bit of lightweight barter for healers, and keep moving when the healer is pursuing you.

That the griefing, gating, relentless murder-healer we really need to be watching out for is the one inside each of us?

I'm saying that if you just give up when confronted with a challenge, you'll never find the means to overcome that challenge, which will continue to kick your ass.

Do you know why I had necromancers tearing their hair out over Illanthos? Because I played them. Extensively.

Roll an evil murder-gate healer. I assure you that the flaws, weaknesses, and pitfalls of this build will be readily apparent. You'll be surprised with all the places that a Healer can't gate to.

And I've been saying all along that the bar for that knowledge is inappropriate to saddle someone with in the 10-20 PK range. Ranking underwater for instance is ridiculous to expect of someone at level 12. These are the ranks where people are spamming up their skills or solo ranking or trying to complete lowbie quests. If you can't do those things because you have to hide in an area that's no-gate it's begging people to just log out and play a different character.

I also think it's funny that the bulk of my posts on this thread have been correcting other people on their misunderstandings of mechanics. So it's not exactly like I "can't learn" or "give up when confronted with a challenge"...I'm pointing out a loophole used by griefer healers that delete when distention hits that should get resolved. When people roll a character just to exploit a certain PK range and delete when they're done that should tell you something is wrong.

Other than dwindling my meager gold supply, was a minor inconvenience.

Yes, I broke down and rolled a character.

Nt

NT

Not that I've had to deal with that many, and this doesn't always work if you're too close in alignment or race, but...

Find higher level mobs that will auto-attack them for whatever reason and go wait there. I promise you that within five minutes they will gate to you and if they're low enough level, some of those mobs will one round them.

Full looting optional, but this approach tends to take the wind out of their sails.

I was going to suggest this too, but having not been a real player for a long time wasn't sure if this still works. With Daev's changes you'd probably even get credit for the pk.

The thing with gate is, they have no clue what situation they're gating into. Use that to your advantage.

I genuinely have no idea what would make this scenario "griefing" and not simply "PKing you".

But I also played in an era of characters with gate who could kill you in about 2 rounds at any level, so maybe that's just me.

I mean, what's next? Trip should be level 30 too? Where does it end? What makes this so different from anything else that kills people? I really don't see it.

You have to find me to trip me. If you trip me, I can flee and word/teleport. With gate you don't need to have any idea where I am. So unless I can lure them into owlbears or similar, I can't play the game.

I can't regenerate movement fast enough. What kind of experience is that in level 10-20 when someone can gate to you anywhere and you can't walk more than 5 paces without running out of movement? Or you teleport and you get mob killed? Or you word and they do it again when you can't afford another potion?

You really don't see a difference with trip?

1.) You don't know how to effectively manage mv
2.) You don't know how to accumulate resources to buy preps/use healers
3.) You don't have enough gear knowledge to outdamage a healer with 1 attack

If you figure out how to do any of those then your problem with the healer goes away.

One of my favorite low rank things to do is to pick up all the gear left on the east road by the guards that wanted people are always killing. You can barter all of it for refresh at healers and it tends to be on the way to most places you are going. Also hold onto some of your academy leather gear because it all has mega mv regen boost.

I'll keep this short. I know how to get refresh preps and gold and wands and so on. Gate costs 50 mana, a recall potion costs 2500. They heal for free, you heal for 1k per use. It doesn't take a genius to see who wins that battle. But hey, farm for hours on end to stock up on recall potions if that's what you want to do.

I'll just log out when I have to deal with these kind of people.

If you can't handle a lowbie healer you can't handle 99.9% of situations in the game, you are going to find yourself logged off a lot.

I see both as attacks that are especially hard to deal with in the teens, but that numerous counter-tactics exist for.

Probably the biggest two are:

1. Gate costs a lot of mana and has a saving throw. If you don't completely ignore your saves, the spam gate scenario isn't all that viable.

2. There are lots of places you can't gate to at all. Generally speaking, someplace you can't recall from probably can't be gated to either. So you could, for example, hang out in Ysigrath or the Maus or a number of other places depending on level. Or duck underwater quick if you think more gate attempts are coming.

Saves gear is hard to have, simultaneously, while having a set that doesn't leave you in terrible shape for fighting other people...in the teens.

And sure, I could shrine sit, I could sit underwater, I could hide in a cursed area, I could sit in Draenettie...but even nightgaunt doesn't work 24 hours a day...I don't want to deal with this sort of nonsense at level 15 when I don't even barely have any class abilities and the only thing I can do to entertain myself is skill prac or solo rank.

I guess my point is, it's a bad experience. It's not trip, it's far more annoying than that and impacts my enjoyment of the game outside of the fight itself because now I can't do the things I want to do and I don't even have much ability to fight back yet.

Trip and bash were both nerfed under level 25 mind you, it's not like there's no precedent for deciding some things are a little lame in the lowbie ranks.

What class are you playing that can't beat a healer at level 15 in a stand up 1-1 fight that you know is coming and you're prepped for?

I deleted. Here's a few classes that should not win that fight under level 17 or so if the healer is any good and hits for DISMEMBERS like this one does.

Shapeshifter
- No forms until 14/15/16. Skills not strong enough to overcome healing.

Transmuter
- Mental jolt not strong enough to do real damage through mental aegis if they're 16+. Slow very expensive to cast. Quicken incredibly draining on moves. Shield block fairly effective against adrenal burst. Lethargy helps but you don't have much of a mana pool at those levels for a long drawn out fight.

Conjurer
- Magic missile spam vs mend wounds = lose. Even with a familiar, depending on the familiar, might not be enough. So you might be fairly crippled until 23.

Shaman
- I could make a fairly strong argument for a shaman not being able to deal with this either.


Now with the mage ones, you can get prismatic spray wands at level 15 but you don't have much good under that - and those wands honestly might not be enough considering the lag and the fact that the healer can heal themselves - and they can flee whenever they want. They can also get their own mercenaries. I think you guys might be overlooking how effective gate + aegis + protection + healing + shield block + parry is in the levels 10-20 range.

Btw, griefing might be a misunderstood thing. What I mean to say is that the power allows griefing, not that this particular guy griefed me. He was fine, and I don't have a problem with him using that combo, it just seems very lame dynamic that healers can be these deathful machines at levels 11-20 just because of this mechanic being priced so low on their skill tree - then spend the other 31 ranks being entirely support based.

...so your comment about the lowbie transmuter is retarded.

It was fun having Shapaa and me make friends though. We killed someone together once but it just felt wrong.

I was hitting mental jolt for maims at 12% of my mana. Chances are Ajil didn't use aegis mental.

Shamans absolutely destroy anyone in the low ranks - and I mean anyone.

A healer would be an absolute joke to kill - a single energy drain and the fight is basically over.

Energy drain is a level 19 skill, so unless you can channel it at level 12 you're not going to be able to use it.

I really wish people would learn to read before making responses when they're the ones who don't know what they're talking about.

I wouldn't worry so much about just the healer. But they'll also probably have a swarthy mercenary or minotaur with them. The two of them will output enough damage to be a problem for a lot of classes. Defenses suck at those ranks since you can't master defenses before 15.

So I have to ask, why can the merc follow the healer through the gate?

Like the mino.

Teens healer has some ####ty merc options unless Good/Neutral Outlander (not sure what level beast call is).

And the mino is so much better as a transmuter charmie. You can haste/toughen/enlarge/adrenal surge it!

11-20 is basically the only PK range that favors healers. From that point outward, the power of gate really dies.

The first thing I do with my cash as a lowbie is get a couple recall potions. If this guy is bothering you, go to a different continent. If he finds you on that continent, recall and go somewhere else.
I don't really qualify this as griefing.

And healers get curse at level 14 either way.

It's not nearly as easy as you make it out to be.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You can't handle a level 13 healer

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HA
HAHA

ok seriously though here are your options.

1.) Invest an hour in ranking and be way out of their range.
2.) Have not terrible gear and just beat them up (seriously they have 1 attack at that rank)
3.) Barter items for mv/healing at NPC healers
4.) Be in a group
5.) Go to a town with a trib on duty
6.) Buy a mercenary
7.) Go to a no commune room
8.) depending on their race go to an area that has mobs which agro on them but not you
9.) hunt them instead of letting them hunt you

1.) Invest an hour in ranking and be way out of their range.

Maybe I don't want to rank to avoid someone.

2.) Have not terrible gear and just beat them up (seriously they have 1 attack at that rank)

Maybe I only have one attack as well.

3.) Barter items for mv/healing at NPC healers

Until I run out of money. Then what?

4.) Be in a group
5.) Go to a town with a trib on duty

None logged in.

6.) Buy a mercenary

Mercs are not strong enough to make a difference.

7.) Go to a no commune room

How is this different than sitting in my guild until they log out?

8.) depending on their race go to an area that has mobs which agro on them but not you

And if they're not a drow?

9.) hunt them instead of letting them hunt you

How would this help?


So basically my options are - don't leave the guild until you can gang them down.

suicide to them. Chances are they will leave you alone.

Bonus points for stripping naked and offering yourself to them somewhere easy, most people who are PK heavy like the cat and mouse aspect of hunting and if you just give them your life they don't generally get as much excitement from it and will leave you be.

The Imm who responded didn't even know how gate works, you don't see me insulting them. Chill.

While I agree, from your perspective his 'suggestion' may come off as condescending...and counter-productive..it is still valid

the guy hunting you is enjoying hunting you...if you serve yourself up on a silver platter and basically say "Ok griefer, you win, here's your free pk" that will break his funstick - because he's not hunting you.

Anyone who is truly a griefer, as you have labelled this dude is enjoying the grief he is causing...

If you show him he has no grief to cause you, he may just leave you alone.

You should just get used to the idea that every now and then you're going to be totally screwed.

Now, if they were gating to you every time you unghosted and killed you again... That might come close to approaching grief.

But, seriously. Don't you have any offensive options? Try getting some -AC gear or something to make it harder for him to hit you.

Lots of Laxmans suggestions would help. A merc would help more than you give credit, in conjunction with anything else offensive you have. Which you must have something.

I've had a healer at that rank gate to me before and try and kick me to death. If you can't kill it. Make sure your moves are always high. At that rank you can't gate forever. When they gate, run off a bit. Make them gate again and move right away. That cat and mouse game will get old. Just be prudent with your moves. Don't run too far off, rest when you can and don't run through the mountains.

While I do sympathise with you somewhat (fondly remembering me getting my ass handed to me back in January '96 over and over), there is a very subtle warning when you create a character:

"By what name do you wish to be mourned?"

Think about it and smile. Then get revenge. It is wonderful.

FWIW I played a dwarf warrior rager WANNABE to hero (ie no detect invis for the ENTIRE LIFETIME of the character) in the days when Guerric and his posse used to tesseract to me in groups of 4+. It was ugly but I got my revenge on all of them, Guerric in particular (not with my dwarf rager wannabe obviously - he sucked ass). It is ass beating like that that have allowed me to be the player I am today.

She's partly correct - you can't gate cross continent while bloody, which gives you something to work with depending on the situation.

Crossing the Aryth or Dragon Sea alone will run you out of movement at those levels, even if you're almost full when you start, unless you're packing refresh preps or have refresh as a class spell.

It's not really an option (at those ranks).

You are way, way overstating how big of a deal running out of movement is for a character in the teens. Running across the Aryth and Dragon doesn't take all of your movement. Not even close.

Oh well. This kind of bitching is still better then when you don't play the game and just spend your time on the forums bitching about how ####ty and unbalanced the game and Imm awards are. This, at least, is fun to laugh at.

http://forums.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,1017090,1017090#msg-1017090

Just buy the travelers rings in the academy! slap them on before you rest.

Lots of people, myself included, are trying to help you, and mostly you just want to tell us why we're wrong instead of trying to learn something.

All I'm saying is, sometimes people wonder why they can't get responses on the forum anymore, and stuff like this is exhibit A. It's just exhausting.

I'm trying to explain to you how you're wrong, so you'll agree and up the level of gate because it's a cheesy tactic that doesn't belong in that level range for the reasons I've stated. Do you legitimately think it's a viable option to run on foot to another continent when they gate to you? Or farm at level 9 with invis for two hours Mansion of Twilight so you can have 40 gold to heal through them? Both of those seem silly in contrast to simply removing the cheesy tactic.

It's not like I don't understand the game. I understand it just fine and so do the people who play those lowbie murder healers.

I can honestly say that I have never been killed or forced to guildsit or quit by a murder healer. So yes, I really think they aren't that bad and that players who fo are, generally, playing badly.

Or, to put it another way: I'm not moving gate to level 30 at this time.

n/t

...While you're saying that you've never had this get you, Ajil went 56-2. Shura had 36-0 by the time they ding'd 30. I doubt all their enemies were just playing bad.

Sure. And what does the same player do with anything else in those levels?

Honestly, I think you have it backwards - I always got the impression they picked healer to show they could run the table with anything, not because lowbie healer was so awesome. Give them warrior or ranger or a-p and I'd bet they hit the same kill number in a lot less time, while also killing a lot more of the better players.

Is the purpose of a healer to rack up that many kills per hour? If so why are they so gimped in that regard later on in their career?

Other classes are fairly consistent in this regards and lack "sweet spot" ranges where their play can be vastly more aggressive than other ranges.

I also doubt they would get as many kills as a warrior with so little deaths.

Part of the reason why I think it's a "griefer build" is because the healer class does not strike me as a hyper-aggressively designed class and in fact, they cannot achieve this style of play at any range beyond rank 30 without adding in powers like insects.