Is it the case that an evil character in Tribunal has limited horizons and difficult entry? If so, Is this driven by immortal or player influence?

There is no codified Tribunal rule that states evils aren't allowed into Tribunal, or that the process of getting in should be more difficult.

I may need some fact-checking on this, but I believe in recent years Marcatis began leaving a lot of this up to the discretion of mortal leadership, at least as it applied to evil applicants specifically, thus setting a bit of a precedent. It is of course understandable that Tribunal might have trust issues with evil people.

Based on IC notes, I would say that approaching Tribunal as an evil guy right now will involve a longer, more challenging road to induction and that is driven by player influence.

I don't believe that player leaders should be capable of this sort of influence without any accountability to the strength of the cabal.

In the real world I'm a manager, I can't decide I'm not going to hire people for some arbitrary reason because ultimately I'm still responsible for my company's performance. My decisions have to be carefully weighed out.

So as an example, if I'm tribunal leader and our numbers get down to 6 people and we can't hold the Scales, I should get bitch slapped all over the place for allowing my cabal to crumble apart.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, I don't think the "no evils" rules, when it's in effect, is a significant detriment to the strength of Tribunal. Which isn't to say Tribunal doesn't have its lulls, but it always has.

Additionally, there happens to be a very valid IC justification for being more skeptical of evil aligned people in the context of a cabal that is about protecting people and serving things other than oneself.

If a Provost were to attempt to implement a policy that were completely arbitrary or illogical, an Immortal would certainly step in.

Why does this cabal even exist? I've been told that it is to provide some newbie friendliness to towns and a safe haven of sorts, but the reality of CF tells me this is false.

As a foil for Outlander, they aren't even that good as most people who care about PK won't play Tribunal. I've tried several times, and the restrictions and slow pace of Tribunal is just not something I can stomach.

So Why does it exist, and Why should it exist, and Why should I (or anyone else) *want* to play Tribunal.

"However, I don't think the 'no evils' rules, when it's in effect, is a significant detriment to the strength of Tribunal. Which isn't to say Tribunal doesn't have its lulls, but it always has."

I tend to think the opposite? When you're in a "lul" you recruit - not turn away -and your in char justification is that the cities *need* to be protected, regardless of your skepticism regarding evil motivations. This is after-all why Tribunals allows (or did allow) evils at all.

There are multiple valid ways to feel but I don't think there are multiple valid ways to make good decisions when running a cabal. In a real organization, when things get tough is when roadblocks get removed, not put up. And whoever is so arrogant as to hamper enrollment during a time of tribulations might be many things but a good leader they are not.

That being said, I don't think they're in a particularly bad spot *right now* based on the cabal wars command...but if they were, I'd hope that rule would get overturned in a heartbeat.

Being a cabal and not an organization, Tribunal is still idealogical to some degree. It's about more than just staffing a police station.

A core part of Tribunal is not just protecting people, but making sure you don't cause harm to innocent people in the process. That's why there are consequences for making mistakes and (quality) Tribunal leadership usually emphasizes not doing things like placing flags unless you're absolutely sure.

Given that, I think it's natural that the cabal would have a hard time trusting evils to perform their duty willingly and well.

All that said, I think it's important to remember that evils can still get into Tribunal. It's harder, for now, but still much easier than a lot of things. Likewise, once you're in (regardless of your alignment, in fact) you can start vying for leadership and eventually influence policy yourself.

The type of evil character could have a large part in whether they are easily trusted. Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they are I want to rape and murder innocent people evil. An evil tribunal could be the type who is willing to do anything except break the law to enforce the law. They may even turn around and hunt past criminals out of town to further protect the law in their mind. I could see a role like that easily being neutral or evil and likely being a better tribunal than the good paladin who has to fight his own conscience to place a flag on goodies or pursue them in town.

You're absolutely right, but "do anything except break the law" is still probably a little too close to the ends justify the means type of attitudes that would make Tribunal nervous.

Likewise, just because an evil person might intend to be a good Tribunal doesn't mean that his red aura isn't going to be met with distrust anyway.

The current "hoops" that an evil character might have to jump through right now are, after all, meant to identify these acceptable evil types and bring them in the fold, not preclude them from joining. (Well, at least that's the way I interpret them. I'm not the Provost.)

Limited horizons really isn't in the scope of CF. Is it harder to do? Yes. It is both player and immortal influence. But, the the immortals are more or less going to bow to the current leader to keep things interesting.

I was referring to a statement on dio's about evil Tribunals not rising above Magistrate. While I understand as well as anyone that there's no such thing as impossible in CF, there is realistic. If an evil Tribunal has to go through effort equivalent to an align change or a lich quest, I'd describe that as "can't" rise above Magistrate. If the effort to rise above Magistrate is more like empowerment then they "can" do it.

What would you compare the hurdles an evil tribunal faces to?

I won't give recommendations for them either. So it's good now compared to the past.

And kick all the goodie players out. Use the reasoning that goodies won't hunt and kill other goodies if they break the law, hence not effectively serving the law well. Only evils got the stomachs gut criminals to your mercilessly. Flip the damn scrip on the goodies pulling that #### and make it an evil cabal.

That's what happens when you let mortal leadership get #### done. It could go either way.

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It was supposed to read:

You aren't required to be "good" either.

Not sure how the end got cut off.