Over the past few years (2? 3?) that I've been playing CF, I've always heard news/rumors/jokes/... about cheating Imms, favourism, OOC hooks and such.
I don't have first handed sources of knowledge, so I cannot really say that the Imms are acting *UNFAIR* or not (Which for me, it means they don't, because I have no reason to prove they do). But even if I consider that they are *UNFAIR*:

So what? You play CF because it is fair? Do you even understand if it is fair?
Have you ever played Warcraft, Starcraft, Quake, ... on the difficult/insane/godly/HOLY*** modes? Have you ever seen that how BLIZZARD (as an example) cheats in insane mode of Starcraft? (Yes they cheat, giving more resources and such to their insane bot.) Why people still like to play those cheater modes? Is it not the challenge which makes you play? Is it really the fairness?

I do play CF because I do have challenges (Even if I think that I'm best and everyone else who can kick me are cheaters, and this is the reason for the challenge.), and as soon as the challenges end for me, I'm out of CF forever. I do play CF because I know almost everyone else is going to PK me even if theoretically I'm much stronger than them.
Do I like to play a build with quest form/few more virtues/third legacies/third weapon specs/Funny imm given edges/...? HELL I do. But it's not the reason I play CF.

I have tried paladin follower of Baerinika and lived more than 200 hours with one of them. She also gave me a custom title. But I never could be maran nor get a 2nd virtue even after 200 hours! Maybe she always mistake me for others (Because of my play time?) Or maybe she just doesn't like me (I do not really believe it. I think I cannot understand/respond well to her religion/char IC). But even if so, what's the problem with it? Should I not hate Amaranthe more because my Torm didn't even get a 1st virtue till the end? Why not look at it in other ways?

In the worst case: Why not just think and find a way to smash that 3legacy-warrior/3virtue-paly/quest-form/... that looks and is OP? This is the fun for me, why cannot you have fun like this?

p.s.
I do like all the Imms for all the efforts they do and I thank them all, even if they are really cheating. And I do like people like Twist and Nepenthe when they play mortals, even if they get OP edges and other imm loves at level one. I like CF because of all these cheaters. This is the fun stick. I get more upset when I get full looted, than when I fall to an OP black jaguar. But still being full looted is a challenge and could be viewed as a fun part.

I'm kinda get what you're trying to say but you're losing me with the Starcraft/Blizzard analogy. It's nothing like that lol. This is an old game with a lot of history between people, that's really all it boils down to.

Edited to add: I think if no one ever 'claimed' characters or checked IPs and every character played was a completely clean slate to both the players and the Imms...there'd be a whole lot less drama and ####. This game is supposed to be about RP'ing and PK'ing but it's not about you as a player it's about your particular character and if we could keep it that way, things would be less dramatic.

>I think if no one ever 'claimed' characters or
>checked IPs and every character played was a completely clean
>slate to both the players and the Imms...there'd be a whole
>lot less drama and ####.

I think there is the potential to get pretty close to this for people who want it; the problem is that some people are pretty transparent. If you have the same OOC rants when you die with any character, yeah a lot of people know what you're playing. If you will only really play one kind of character 95% of the time, yeah a lot of people will know what you're playing. People who don't fall into those categories are a lot more anonymous than they probably think they are.

I have absolutely no idea what you're playing right now, for example. But on the flip side, one of the people who bitches loudest about IP checking got pulled for a rules thing not that long ago and... yeah, at that point the imm who dealt with him asked to find out who they were and what the history was to try to gauge if this was a serial thing or not. Really the only routine situation I can think of where I'll dig for information on someone when it isn't a rules thing is if a cabal leader's hours suddenly drop off without explanation and I want to know if you're spending 80 hours a week playing Tribunal instead of your Outlander leader (or whatever). Otherwise it's just not worth my or anyone's time.

...In the abstract sense, if we just didn't care so much about who played what and epeen measuring, we'd all be a lot better off. I've never been treated unfairly from what I can tell with any of my chars. I know that you guys, these days, being busy with real life, don't really give a #### whose playing what (I would imagine at least) but I was talking more about in the blue sky scenario where no one cares and we just all do our own thing.

I wish more people had the mentality you do. Even if SOME of the things the immortals do to the players is beyond cheating, like giving someone in a lich quest an item to find that ISN'T EVEN IN THE GAME is far worse than any sort of cheating, in my view of things anyway. There's others that are even worse, but it doesn't matter. It's a game, and it's free. It doesn't require another dollar of quarters to get another life. I'll keep on keeping on no matter what get's thrown at me, because the struggle is part of the fun. Any kid who's broken a nintendo controller out of rage can understand it

> like giving someone in a lich quest an item to find that ISN'T EVEN IN THE GAME is far worse than any sort of cheating

If we did that it's news to me. (I'd just tell someone they weren't getting a lich quest instead.)

Poor Palan. That char was so awesome

Whos lich item was in the game, but "unfindable" due to a set of room desc circumstances. An imm had to end up handing him the item after he spent 100 hours searching for it to no avail.

And they still let him fail the quest, despite the hundreds of hours on his items that were insanely difficult to get (and in one case, impossible) and having been one of the best roleplayers ever in the game.

If you're gonna cheat, at least help out the people you want to stick around

I forget his name, but there was a Master which had king tiotrik's crown which was in a room there was no way to get to because the akan castle quest never got finished. We spent hours trying to figure it out, even praying about it, poor guy spent weeks trying to figure it out then deleted in frustration. You gave Mekantos some hidden mob in Silent tower for one of his first attempt and an item that wasn't even in game for his second. That's just off the top of my head. I believe they call it, plausible deniability.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>I forget his name, but there was a Master which had king
>tiotrik's crown which was in a room there was no way to get to
>because the akan castle quest never got finished. We spent
>hours trying to figure it out, even praying about it, poor guy
>spent weeks trying to figure it out then deleted in
>frustration.

I do remember hearing about this one now that you mention it. Edit to add: I'm pretty sure the person that came up with that quest just didn't know better, if that's any consolation.

>You gave Mekantos some hidden mob in Silent tower
>for one of his first attempt and an item that wasn't even in
>game for his second.

I don't know anything about this. That doesn't sound like something we'd do but then I have no idea who did those lich quests and not everyone has awesome judgment on these things.

Maybe CF "didn't need a lich at the time." Right Daev?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I remember one of the bad judgement ones, or maybe it was made hard on purpose. It would have made sense in this situation.

Back in 99 or 2000, When Valguarnera was an active lich and leader of masters, and there was a second master lich as well (Coriolanius or something I think was the name? He was terrible, I remember that much lol constantly dying) My RL friend Joe (Koekhaos) Also was playing a necromancer spectre, and was the Lord adept of necromancy. Even though there was 2 liches in the game already, he got a lich quest as well (blew my mind) He found all the items but one, the last item was a "magical hourglass bereft of sand". He never found it and deleted, but I ended up finding it later in about 2004 in silent tower. Pretty sure it was the year silent tower came out, and people didn't even hardly know how to get inside yet. The chances of him actually getting it were slim to none.

I think that one was meant to be a little overhard on purpose, could you imagine 3 master liches all running around at once?

I still make fun of him about it, he doesn't have any hard feelings but it's been a running joke now for about 15 years lol. Now I mess with him because I found all my lich items in about 30 minutes and he got stuck with the good ol hourglass. (I totally got pity items, no way anyone in history has had a list of lich items as easy as mine were. Go figure, I love to explore and I get the newbie list)

A newbie list lich quest doesn't play in with any current conspiracy theories involving you or anything.

Are you seriously suggesting that I am somehow on the inside with the immstaff? Or that I am somehow an imm pet to any of the acting immortals? Or that I even know any of the current immortals ooc? Me? Of all people? The guy that got busted for rolling characters with some friends to power explore hell a few years back?

First of all, I give you absolute and free permission to go ahead and state the "conspiracy theories" that are going on about me here. That's right, go ahead. I want to hear them.

Secondly, my lich died to a bug, killing my imm application and I didn't even get so much as an email back. Also, I was told by Iunna later they would have probably never let me imm because they were concerned that I was friends with trip (which im not, i'm friends with a friend of his) and Torak (Who I have no problem admitting I play tons of online games with, I've known him for 16 years and he's not a bad guy at all.)

You want me to be completely honest? I think the thing that held me back the most is my lack of a censor, and my complete willingness to engage with idiots like you and jerrokrar here and on dios, where I totally mock and trash fools like you that have been playing for years and are still the absolute laughing stock of the community. I think they were concerned about how professional and unbiased I could be, and they're probably right. If I was an imm the first thing I would do is probably smite and slay you.

Come on Pro. Go ahead and tell me these things you've heard. I'm literally challenging you because I want a good laugh. I may not be disliked by the entire staff, but I am certainly not on anybodies good side or anybodies favorite.

>Secondly, my lich died to a bug, killing my imm application
>and I didn't even get so much as an email back.

I don't think I'd call that a bug, assuming I correctly understand what happened.

That's rough edge that might be filed off if I ever were to decide to make the area less merciless, but it's not like the bad thing that can happen happens by accident.

I understand the design of it, giving the echo and whatnot it give. I incorrectly assumed that a lich shouldn't have to worry about the aging thing, just like a lich doesn't have to worry about Zurcon.

I was way wrong, and it ####ed the best character I ever had.

You can understand why i'm still a little sore about losing a lich the way I did. I didn't get any warning, it didn't show up on my age in the score (I was checking constantly just in case), and I just dropped dead one day at 300 hours.

Did I miss something?