Losing con is huge for a number of reasons.

It makes it easier and easier to land skills/spells that check it...thus making you more likely to die from it. (Unless you carry extra gear around which s sorta lame and has serious set backs all it's own.

Zulg did NOT change the code so that con isn't taken into consideration for HP. Tiny con DOES have a huge impact on HP gains. What he did IIRC is now your con is computed as half the distance of your remaining con from your racial max. It still really sucks bad.

Your healing rates become atrocious and it can even nerf the Whispers legacy for a big waste.

You have those who are suicidal and think nothing of throwing away con and they are good with that. They are PK oriented and don't survive the fights to spend forever healing anyway.

In a perfect CF world, the con loss would really only determine your death and not #### you to hell and back along the way.

I tend to delete when I have lost a handful of con.

I don't think there was any misinfo.

There are very few skills which check con for saves... and you can (and should) be gearing to cover your con loss.

Gearing should also give you the same hp gains per level, no?

There are edges and preps and healers that all increase your healing rate. If you're relying on default healing for the majority of your character's life, I'd say you're just being lazy. They aren't hard to get and are common knowledge. Pocketwatches from Voralia, cloudy gray potions from the ship in Hamsah docks, opal wand from high tower, etcetera. Plus the wise recovery edge, which means your healing will be capped by your wis and not by your con.

You should try playing a character out to con loss. I've had several, and it is honestly not a big deal at all. The worst part is rot, which is really simple to prepare for (drop a bunch of con gear near your recall spot, you're done.)

I'd love to see a shaman revamp. Rot has always struck me as a "kill the absolute newest players around" sort of skill. From that standpoint, by itself, it'd love to see it get replaced.

Once rot is out of the picture its really not bad.

I'd keep rot's other affects as is (which is pretty much why I'd use rot as a shaman, anyway), but it would reduce a random stat each tick (maybe without a save) rather than just con (though if at the end of the duration you got down to 3con you'd still die). After all it makes sense that a body rotting disease would affect your other physical attributes just as well, and actually mental abilities too. Victim save would determine fail/wasting disease/rot/duration.

Actually a completely random stat seems too variable, so I think it should be partially targetable, i.e. the shaman could choose either a physical rot (-con, -str, or -dex on the hour), or a mental rot (-int, -wis, or -cha/hr). You could also have additional (minor) affects (e.g. malison, hamper etc.) related to the stat in question as it starts getting low enough.

Something along those lines.

I honestly would be fine if that was the main effect (that you cease to regain any mv for the duration of the sup, and lose it when you fail the save), and the con-reducing portion was completely rethought.

>Tiny con DOES have a huge impact on HP
>gains.

It has an impact. I wouldn't say it's a huge impact. I'm not sure how big you think it is but you almost certainly overstate it.

If you're not, like... solo Battle Scout Thief, there are ways for you to get HP back faster when you need to. If you really struggle with dying a lot and your HP regen... play something that isn't that and you'll probably be fine.

As an aside, one of the nice points about the much-maligned Renewal of Spring legacy is that it backstops your con loss so that you always regen HP as though you had high con (possibly higher than your natural con even, if you're a low con race.)

gr

I'm not sure I understand the question.

If you took say, renewal and whispers on a dwarf warrior, and fought your way down to 6 con, would whispers still work like you had 25 con, considering renewal cancels the HP regen of low con.

Would it work well with the bonus of renewal to keep whispers prime your whole characters life is the question.

Yes. Although I don't think 25 is the number I picked, you would have deathproof high con regeneration for life.

Edit: With Whispers multiplying that as it generally does.

gr

It sounds like a nice reward for a long lived warrior character that is not OP. ^_^
I'm sure most warriors would rather have a different legacy though.
But hey, free is free!

I like that they sometimes gives out third legacies to warriors that are log lived/consistent/have good RP.

I've con-died six characters going back four years and I'm gonna let you know that you shouldn't be sweating con this much.

I end up training con (including with edges) five, six times or more with each character. I've asked for con quests, gotten con from RC wins, and was once granted some con just for the asking.

I'm trying to let you know that I use up a lot of con.

And here's why you don't let it bother you.
1. The gains aren't that much different, and if you have max con of 22, but you can only gear up to 20, caring about those extra hp gains is bordering on OCD.

2. Con gear is everywhere. I can gather a crapload of con on the run from a shaman and I suck. Also, you can just ask your groupmate if you can wear his belt of life when you're about to gain a level.

3. Wise recovery. I pretty much have to take this with every one of my characters and it mitigates con loss to a huge degree.

It really is part of game balance, though. By the time I've put four or five hundred hours into a character, there are usually no edges left that I want, but don't have. The fact that I'm now old and it's easier to land poison or a rot on me is part of the price I pay for perks like that which come with playing for a long, long time.

I honestly think you are bat #### crazy on the matter.

Wise recovery doesn't work for PK.

Con gear rarely has other stats.

The gain differences are huge.

Also, as I mentioned. Having to farm gear for rot resistance and the like is just meh.

For me anyway.

I am not sure why you are so worried about it. Maybe you play too many dwarf warriors with whispers. Or something.

Pre-edges it was worse.

Imms could change the system if they thought it was a problem.
It is not really a problem. How often are you honestly getting rotted?
Gear for -svs?

sdfv

Lose less con.

You are supposed to get plagued easier for sucking more. Rot is debatable but partially or entirely negated by renewal of spring legacy or just plain wearing any sort of saves at all.

Nobody, including the imms, gives two ####s that you don't want to throw on a +3 piece of con gear from under arkham and a +2 from aldevari for twenty minutes because you can't learn to use alternative lag methods or gang the shaman, or simply full sac them enough before they get rot that they delete.

Slow watches are available to everyone in the game and there's not enough skills in the game that target con for you to throw this much of a banworthy fit over. Otherwise elves would be completely non-viable.

>Wise Recovery doesn't work for PK.

By the time you need WR, you should have everything perfected and a ton of edges. That is a much bigger bonus than whatever meager regen you would be granted by having a higher con during those few ticks.

>Con gear rarely has other stats.

And you only have to wear it some of the time. Bring a couple pieces with you while you rank or stash a rot kit in your cabal.

>The gain differences are huge.

We clearly disagree on the definition of "huge."

>Also, as I mentioned. Having to farm gear for rot resistance and the like is just meh.

You really only have to do this once per crash/reboot if you care about it and if there is an enemy shaman who might rot you. That's not all that often.

2 non limited rings from sanctum. 4 con.
Jerkin from crypts. 3 con.
Cape from jade village (or get later) 3con.
Cloaks from mayor of dagdan 3con each.

So with about 20 lbs gear you have 16 con and that's enough to grab whatever else you need, like bracers from frigid for 4 con. Potion from velkyn for 3 con. Yellow root from ysigrath for enlarge con.

Usually takes me 200-250 hours, the only exception involving 4 con from an imm and a leader position

gr

xcv zvs ad

nt