Greetings,

I am writing this post regarding Orcs in cabal wars, because honestly as implemented I believe they have no place meddling in cabal wars.

Every cabal has three things in common.

An Inner Cabal Guardian
An Outer Cabal Guardian
An Item of Power

Orcs have only one of these three things

An Inner Guardian

Basically, every cabal brings to the table an item that can be taken, and must be retrieved. The flipside of this, is that they may take another cabals item, and force them to retrieve. As it stands, orcs have the benefit of taking a cabal item, and never need worry about the downside of theirs being taken.

Tremblefist, is decidedly MUCH harder to kill than an outer cabal guardian. Also, he is in a room with a CLOSING door (This is a horrid design flaw imo, and is abused by lowbie orcs to kill out of range retrievers). Not to mention, that their village is FULL of aggressive, tough mobs that you must get past to even reach tremblefist (as lowbie retriever).

My issue is not neccesarily with orcs being allowed to participate in cabal wars, it is absolutely the way their participation is currently implemented.

If Orcs are going to be continued to be allowed to take items, at the bare minimum please give their village an outer guardian, equal in strength to other outers (Maybe this outer would bar entrance to their village completely until killed, just like other outers).

Truly, if you REALLY want them to participate, give them an item that can be taken. Maybe without their item they lose access to their adaption powers, or maybe you could design some new hotness that orcs have while they are in possession of their new item.

All in all, I just feel that the current design of Orc has cabal item, is total ####, and honestly its only used (rather: abused) to make lowbie retrieval harder. The other day I saw the Emperor (Beacon of ORDER and darkness) hand a cabal item to an orc to place, simply because it is more difficult for those trying for the item back to retrieve it. I have two words to describe that situation "Complete ####". Orcs aren't allowed in Galadon due to their wanton disorderly ways....

I'm not sure what is exactly correct, Orcs aren't a Cabal, so a part of me says they have no business in cabal wars (Thief guilds can't down items) the orc clan seems more like a thief guild type organisation to me.

Or: Implement them as a real cabal with inner/outer/item.

This whole taking of items with impunity without any item of their own being able to be taken is completely unfair, and makes absolutely no sense.

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Perhaps not everything in Thera need be symmetrical; if that is the case, there may be times where working with the Grinning Skull Village would represent a strategic choice.

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Just kidding.

n/t

No worries.

The way you make it sound, this would almost make up for having to fight two cabals anytime fort or outlander has an item, but in practice, there are rarely any orcs around, so this is just an occasional tactic.

Answer me one question: Are orcs a cabal?

If your answer is no, then explain to me why they should be involved in CABAL wars?

It was something that was changed a long time ago to allow orcs to participate to make up for them not being allowed in cabals. You brought up thieves, but thieves are allowed in cabals on top of their guilds. No other race or class is prohibited from joining cabals.

If this is a huge issue for you, you could delete your current and make a scion or imperial so its not something you have to worry about. I don't think I am going to change your mind though. You sound a bit emotionally invested here (guessing you died at tremblefist).

Looking at cabal war numbers, fort seems to be holding their own, so this seems like an occasional inconvenience at best.

So responed as such

Do I think orcs can participate in cabal wars?

Sure.

Am I ok with them having Tremblefist in a locked room? When he's 2x as hard as any other outer? And to get to him you have to endure being plagued/sickened/travers a hostile village?

No - this is complete crap, it needs fixed.

If orcs are going to be allowed into cabal wars then, balance it fairly.

Example:

Orc raids empty village, takes head, downs head.

Villagers have to retrieve

Lowbies cannot, tremblefist is too powerful - if this were any other cabal, lowbies could retrieve (point #1)

Lets say the villagers DO retrieve, and want to take the orcs item to teach them a lesson oh wait- there is NO Item.

In this scenario, the orc has EVERYTHING to gain, villagers must retrieve at a HUGE disadvantage (Orc pads PK stats), and can take nothing to equally inconvenience the orc (they could kill the orc, but thats it) there is no course of action that will inconvenience the orc as much as losing a cabal item (this is the part where I really call BS)

Fair is Fair, I'm all for orcs being allowed in Cabal wars, but on even ground.

Right now the ground is not even, and mechanically this creates a crap advantage with no drawbacks for mr. orc.

It sucks when Orcs have The Head.

The only thing arguably worse is when Empire has it behind three sets of Cents with a Healer.

However, there are not often many hero orcs to defend, so odds are that getting it back is going to be pretty easy for a hero.

As for the assertion that it's too hard to kill Tremblefist as a lowbie, I'll agree. But it's also pretty hard to kill any of the Outers as an actual lowbie. Once you're in mid-ranks, a lot of Villagers should be able to retrieve from GSV, though it won't be easy.

I'd take this opportunity to point out that Orcs have few friends and you can always ask an Outlander or Fortie for help if it's role appropriate.

As for there not being any way to inconvenience an orc, ummm, being an orc is the inconvenience.

Your supposed to flock to whatever is in power to kick the #### out of whoever is playing the other side.

I guess exploiting this is why you see so many orcs around though (wait weren't they listed as least played class?)

You obviously have never played an orc successfully.
If an orc takes the head or even the orb for that
matter it is not really particularly hard for someone
over rank 45 to retrieve especially since have the
orcs on the path to Tremblefist cower away from you
when you walk in. Tremblefist is not that hard to kill,
you just don't obviously use vulns or prep when you
fight him. As for the door who really cares? If you are
stupid enough to stand in the room with him when your
almost dead against a mob that doesn't leave the chest
that's your problem. Its not that hard to escape even
if someone is closing the door its this groovy spell/potion
called pass door or if your a villager I sincerely doubt
you would have an issue killing Tremblefist unless your
trying to go at him with a level 30 scout. Buck up and
quit whining. Orcs rarely are in play and if they are theres
what one or two? What would be the point of orcs if they
couldn't have some way to participate?

Retrieving from GSV as Battle is legitimately in the running for worst retrieval in the game. It's either the worst or the second worst (by cabal vs. retrieval location combination.)

But... that still doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.

So what? They have their reasons, and why wouldn't orcs?

Besides, I like the orc set-up.

As it stands, you get heroes that won't take even minimal risk to retrieve, and instead send lowbies.

When orcs have the item, that's not an option.

And you do realise that being shut in is not really an option against someone? Closing a door lags you. Opening one doesn't. So if you are just fighting tremblefist and other mobs, you just need to open again right after they shut it, then spam flee a bit.

Leave orcs as they are, I say.

Also, orcs don't have cabal powers. So they are paying the price ALL the time.

Perhaps if you had to retrieve against orcs with deathblow and resist, and it was a no-recall area, where you also have trouble fleeing?