I noticed this on Baendra's immortal comments in the Premium Battlefield:

Sun May 23 13:18:55 2004 by 'Phaelim' at level 47 (271 hrs):
Another person who doesn't make use of the shift key or punctuation.


Is this really very fair at all? A snippet of the conversation in the cf chatroom:

<Zoder> Whatta prick
<Data57> hehe
<Zoder> Maybe he doesn't have a shift key on his keyboard
<Zoder> ANd that's OOC matters
<Gld> Whether or not I use the shift key is part of my character's rp.
<harikrish__> mine too
<Gld> If he isn't supposed to have a firm grasp on the 'common language', I don't use the shift key to put an emphasis on that.
<Gihnral> I have to agree with GLD
<Gld> I had a Phaelim follower planned as one of my future characters. Think I'm going to scrap that of my list.
<Gihnral> grammar and punctuation, ect, is about the only way to get speech patterns, tone, ect across on a text based game
<Gld> Doesn't sound like an Imm I'd want to interact with.

I know the DALnet room isn't typically a place you folks have much respect for, but the comments here seem to be pretty valid.

Thoughts?

"But that was in another country. And besides, the wench is dead."

First of all, this isn't an imm view of things (although some may share it), this is my view.

I understand that English is not the primary language of everyone, or that some people are not the greatest typists. These things are pretty evident when I'm interacting with someone, and I try to make sense of whatever they're saying and keep moving. On the otherhand, you have someone that has good RP and PK, all done without typos or sentences in need of deciphering, yet never once uses a capital or period. To me this just says typist who doesn't want to be bothered with it, which I take as a just being on the lazy side.

My second point of this is actually to agree with what Gihnral says in that snippet. In a text-based game, grammar and punctuation is one of the only ways to get the tone of the character across. When I see the text of people talking I just about hear it. When it is just a string of lowercase letters with no punctuation, what I hear is an even monotone without any pause. If you feel otherwise, that's fine, I'm certainly not going to browbeat anyone for it. I had a follower I never saw use punctuation or capitalization who I gave a lastname, title and tattoo. I think his character would have been better if he used these things, since I am sure he was capable of it, but I didn't let it color what else I thought of the character.

In closing, type however you want (except for that internet slang), it's your keyboard.

Thanks for the responses. Just wanted to see what was up.

I'm not terribly concerned about grammar/spelling/etc. during interactions as a rule.

That said, if it hurts my head to try to figure out what people are trying to communicate (IC, in a role, whatever), I'm probably going to find other things to do. (I cut people slack if I sense that English isn't their first language. I'm talking more about lazy/sloppy type issues.) This also applies to excessively "creative" accents.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Imms are people, and as such are different from one another. Phaelim apparently dislikes it when people don't punctuate and capitalize.

Given that certain other imms usually elect not to capitalize, even when speaking with mortals, I don't think it's accurate to treat Phaelim's comments as if they were an official staff position.

I don't see how not capitalizing or punctuating is "roleplay", when
you could actually get the point across with a different talking style.
When I see people not using caps or punctuation, I think that they're
either incredibly lazy or 14 years old, and it certainly doesn't help
me take them seriously. It's something that irritates me, is all.

Or they're non-native speakers.

It's an OOC matter, and frankly, I don't see how it should affect your perception of the character. Not capitalizing or putting periods on the end of your says, at least to me, connotates roughness-not necessarily a bad thing depending on the character.

X says "going to kill you now"
Barbarian? Psychopath?

X says "Going to kill you now."
Angry elf?

On second thought, I shouldn't have included the direct anti-Phaelim jabs; they weakened the point. But the point remains.

>Or they're non-native speakers.

I'm a non-native speaker myself.

>X says "going to kill you now"
>Barbarian? Psychopath?

Here I see "Lazy-ass player, can't even bother to type."

Like you said it's an OOC thing, it has nothing to do with the
character itself. Even if I might not straight out ignore them,
I sure as hell aren't going to think very highly of them until
proven otherwise. Usually, people who type like that can't prove
themselves otherwise, being the Drudentals we all know and love.

>On second thought, I shouldn't have included the direct
>anti-Phaelim jabs; they weakened the point. But the point
>remains.

And my point is simply that it's annoying.

So you're saying you let OOC things affect your IC relationship with people? Where's the ROLEPLAY?


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

And of course it affects my decisions, if some guy looks like a
Counterstrike player lost on CF and I have no pressing IC reason to
pursue interactions with him, I sure as hell will go and find more
coherent/interesting people to turn to.

How is he not "interesting" if he's not using caps,punctuation? If a person has a badass role and he he's not gonna use any punctuation and caps this doesn't mean the person is lazy or not interesting thank you drive through

I'm sure I'm not the only one that bases their opinion of a character a lot on the first impression they give you. What Praline is saying is that when the first thing some other character says is "want to gorup" you get the impression this character is played by someone who can't grasp simple grammar, does that make you want to interact with them? It sure makes me want to blow them off and never talk to them again! Though, since i'm a big softy I usually don't. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible (This does not include people like Durdental - them, I blow off.)

Bad typing does not equal not interesting. It simply deters me from trying to find out if the person actually is interesting at all
(assuming they're still not giving me any other particular reason to),
because all evidence this far points to "no".

You're welcome to prove me wrong.

while neither lazy nor 14, I am A) a poor typist/keyboarder
B) the owner of a wonderful keyboard where the left shift
doesn't want to work half the time.
(i've pulled the thing apart, it isn't mechanical, not in
the board on the kb. can't figure it out.)
so rather than haphazzard caps I just stopped using them.

So now I have a new keyboard. Will it take a while to get used
to using the shift keys again? Hrm... yes, yes it will.

I have always wondered at the hostility I recieved here from the
beginning and this explains it. I don't use caps, I don't punctuate.
blah blah blah
The same people who are irritated by the lack of caps are also
irritated when they say something to a character ic and it takes
the other fellow a bit to type out a response. In both cases the
other fellow is assumed to be an idiot.
Why? Was what he said stupid? Were you not able to understand
what was said? If you can figure out what a mino, drunken bard,
heavily accented dwarf, orc or fire giant is saying why can you not
figure out what a fellow who is not using periods is saying?
CF also doesnt allow time for slow typists to speak.
For me (and yes this is pathetic) the difference between
rev;cb blitz on eastern;shape lion
and
rev;cb Blitzenhurt is on the Eastern Road.;shape lion
is about 2 or three seconds.
Many of you type well enough that there would be no noticeable
time difference. Some of us do not.
Does that make me stupid and you intelligent?
I am sure you feel that this is the case. The information
in both cases was the same though.
I can see where for many people it would be bothersome.
typing like this here man, is like you know wearing jeans
and a ratty t-shirt and you are you know tryin' ta bum
a smoke off of some dude in like a his little preppy outfit*
*(whatever those sort of people wear now-a-days)
The way you type has become your clothes and haircut, the way you present yourself to the world.
There are a few things along the way that I decided weren't important
anymore. After doing a little time in prison here in Texas, (Which,
while showing me to be very unwise, still doesn't put me in the
stupid category, though I am sure you just put me farther in there)
I decided that I just didn't care what the guy in the suit thought
of my ratty t-shirt, I love my ratty t-shirt.
Perhaps as I become better at typing, I'll use punctuation more.
maybe i'll just rub my ratty t-shirt in everyone's face.
Until then I'll keep going as I am, which is neither lazy nor 14,
but still with very few caps used in tells.

dfg

When I started reading your post I thought there was going to be a snippet of me using lots of punctuation, not a snippet like that.

I actually agree with Phaelim that names should be capitalised etc. That's why I'm surprised I've falled foul of this pitfall.

I meant to type "fallen foul".

nt