Is there any way you could give us the numbers on the hypothetical possibility of a player getting every explore and observe xp spot all the way to hero.

How crazy would the totals be?

Obligatory plug for reducing how much observation/exploration are worth in terms of edge points. Or, alternately, lowering the cap on the amount of edge points you can get from observation/exploration.

Makes people stop bitching so much about "having" to do it, and I can still get my axe pee.

Yeah this way only teacher's pets get edges...

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I prefer obs/exp counting towards edges.

Even granting what you're implying, that imm exp is given out preferentially, how is the current system better than what I suggested? Right now, "teacher's pets" get all the edge points from their imm xp plus the same amount from observation/exploration as everybody else. I suggested two possible changes:

1. Reduce the value of observation/exploration. This would effectively lower the amount of edge points for everybody. It would not make farming observation/exploration worthless, but it would make it "worth less".

2. Lower the cap on edge points from observation/exploration. This would also lower everybody's edge points, except for those characters who were never going to hit the cap anyway. This would, however, make farming observation/exploration completely worthless, assuming the cap were moved low enough that everybody is likely to hit it "naturally" without having to farm (or with minimal farming).

If you wanted to "make up" for the lost edge points in a way that doesn't hurt newbies, just up the amount awarded to characters as they age.

Another possible change I've mentioned that I forgot to bring up this time:

Do away with the caps on edge points from PK and observation/exploration, but replace them with a single cap on edge points gained from both PK and observation/exploration.

This would make it so guy who's pretty sure he's going to get 100 PKs (or whatever is required to hit the cap) can opt out of farming observation/exploration and not be punished for it. However, the newbie who will never enjoy PK success can continue to do all the exploring/observing he's always have done and still get rewarded for it. In fact, with this change he has the potential to be rewarded more since the cap on combined PK + observation/exploration is higher than the previous cap on just observation/exploration.

I don't understand the need for this at all. People who are already getting lots of IMM xp will always have a ton more edges because Imm xp is worth a lot more for edges than exploring. So you and other people who usually get a ton of Imm xp will still be winning out. Also most long lived characters are naturally going to get explore xp just by gathering gear, etc. Again just don't see any need for this except for people who are already know how to milk imm love to be even more powerful.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Explain to me how everyone losing edge points across the board, including me, favors...me.

Also I think you're overestimating the extent to which I get showered with imm exp. My last two significant characters are Sivyh and Ageryn:

Sivyh: 3700 imm exp
Zaanzorbarus: 3300 imm exp
Lohoq: 4150 imm exp
Xligro: 3200 imm exp (i.e. another pk-successful assassin who existed around the same time as Sivyh)

400xp more than you. 450 less than Lohoq. That's on a 700-hour-old Emperor who followed a religion and was tattoo'd. Xligro was a 300-hour-old non-leader who almost got booted for failure to defend his cabal (see imm comments) and he only got 500 less than Sivyh.

Ageryn: 4700 imm exp
Flaaayin: 6400 imm exp

Flaayin was contemporary with Sivyh and not Ageryn, but I'm including him for comparison since was a PK-successful leader thief who was relatively long-lived.

>Explain to me how everyone losing edge points across the
>board, including me, favors...me.

As I pointed out before, your 10th edge and your 1st edge are not equally useful (assuming that you pick them roughly in order of usefulness). If everyone loses a flat amount of edge points, some people lose their first few, most valuable edges, while you are losing Combat Statistician. Unless you're referring to one of the other plans here.

>Also I think you're overestimating the extent to which I get
>showered with imm exp. My last two significant characters are
>Sivyh and Ageryn:

I don't think you get unreasonable amounts of Imm-love compared to other people who are good at writing roles. It would incredibly hippocritical to complain about it given how much I got on Edimus (my only PBF'd character, and before imm rewards were somewhat standardized, I believe). It's not that edge sources are unfair or excessive in any way, nor that I begrudge you them at all. But chopping explore/obs exp does hurt others more than it hurts you.

I think part of the charm of CF is that it is not equal. There are some things that feel beyond your reach and you want to get it. And when you sometimes get it, it is nice. It makes you keep trying.

If you got Emperor by "sayto Recruiter Emperor" it would feel like a shortcut and you would not feel the same sense of accomplishment as you would as it is.

Now I cannot be Emperor as it is, since I am not good enough, but I can dream that I someday will, and think about what to do to get there.

>Obligatory plug for reducing how much observation/exploration
>are worth in terms of edge points. Or, alternately, lowering
>the cap on the amount of edge points you can get from
>observation/exploration.


Your call for this is completely selfish because you're basically asking them to only reward significant edge points for things you are better at than most people: PK and role-writing. Not t hat you aren't also a good roleplayer, between two people of equal role-playing skill, the one who is good at writing stories and PKing will get more imm exp, even aside from the direct pk-granted edge points.

If it gets set up this way Isildur gets a power boost and people who don't have as much of those two skills get a power downgrade. It doesn't seem to me that we need to make edges more of a rich-get-richer scheme than they already are.

Finally, obs/explore exp is the only way to get edges that you are fully in control of. It's the only way to guarantee yourself a few edges in the early ranks. I don't like grinding obs/explore exp but I prefer grinding it to not having those edges.

And I consider myself a pretty good role writer, I've always gotten lots of imm exp when I wanted to write role entries, but I do think this is unfair to people who are not so good at it.

I think you're ignoring the fact that vets can grind out observation/exploration too. It's not like that source of edge points only benefits newbies and/or people who can't PK.

Seriously. If the only way you'll be happy with edges is if they're awarded based on a player's willingness to mindlessly grind out observation/exploration, then I'd just as soon see edges go away altogether.

For years, people grinded out skill %s for a perceived PK benefit.

People grind out hours looking for, and gathering preps. From detect invis, fly, and recall potions, to ABS wands.

Hell, I grind out hours gathering gold because I'd rather buy stuff than gather preps.

While CF is definitely a PK-heavy game, there are those that favor the obs/exp side of things, and I'm fine with them getting some reward over it.


When it comes down to it, there will always be those that want to maximize what "rewards" they can gain through varying means. Though edges do make a difference, I rather feel it's no more or less than the effort to go gather up preps and such. You can live just fine without them, just means you might have to be craftier in other areas.

I will agree to this to some extent.

Over the years, I have written up a pretty lengthy cheat sheet that I can run through on any new characters which will get me around 25k observation and 20k explore experience by level 25, unlocking many useful edge points off the bat.

The problem is, it sucks up around 10-15 hours to go through my list. It was fun on the first couple of characters years ago when I was compiling the list, but having to do it 5-10 times a year any time I think I want to have a serious character makes it a huge chore that kills my desire to roll up newbies. Add in the fact that my list is mostly low level areas which do not grant experience past the 20-30 range, meaning I have to do before investing too much time into the char.

Sure, I can play characters who ignore the whole explore thing and just jump in and start to PK or RP my heart out. I always feel a little gimped in the long run when my edge choices are very sparse and have to explore significantly more dangerous places later in life to make up the gap.

That being said, I like the observe/Explore/edge reward system. I just really wish I could actually be encouraged to explore *new* places and things and not just see the same sights and creatures I saw on the last 50 characters while running around on mental autopilot.

>I think you're ignoring the fact that vets can grind out
>observation/exploration too. It's not like that source of
>edge points only benefits newbies and/or people who can't PK.

When it comes to edges, vets: 15 newbs: 5 is better than vets: 10 newbs: 0. In terms of overall character impact, your first few edges are a bigger deal than your last 5. Vets are going to basically max out their potential with just PK and RP-based edge points. So vets essentially just getting a few extra random edges (strong back?) with their obs/explore points does not benefit them as much as the first bunch benefits the newbies.

>Seriously. If the only way you'll be happy with edges is if
>they're awarded based on a player's willingness to mindlessly
>grind out observation/exploration, then I'd just as soon see
>edges go away altogether.

Honestly I strongly dislike grinding out obs/exp. In fact, despite having decided what character I want to return from my brief hiatus with, I haven't summoned up the will to do what I consider a very tedious task. So it's not like I'm happy with it, exactly. However, what I would want is simply not going to happen (Free edge points at level 1 equivalent to 15-20k each of obs/explore exp).

What I'd love to see is CF accounts that you create your characters under, and explore/observe exp is permanent and gives all your new characters that much exp worth of edge points to start with. But that won't happen either.

So basically given the choice between getting no edges until the character is pretty old or spending 10 hours grinding things I've seen before, I'll take the 10 hour grindfest.

I also forgot to mention that your other source of edge points is longevity. You play characters to age death often, which gives you yet another advantage over people if we take away the exploring exp.

I support this idea if the edge points lost from the change are given automatically instead of moved to pk/imm exp.

And I don't mean "play 400 hours and you get them" but something more reasonable, like get to hero/play 150-200.

sdfvdsfv

The idea is that people who like a lot of different parts of the game can get some edges, not just people who like the parts of the game that you like.

so it was always my pet peve that some things require imm XP and I didn't like it. Not sure if there are any specific edges but if they are it would be grovy to drop it.

The only reason I ever wrote more then one role entry was to hit the 2k minimum needed to get into silent tower. Now that its gone how about making life easier for those of us who are not interested in immteraction(sure people get some random xp here and there but its overwhelmingly role or come sit in my shrine oriented from looking at pbf's and personal experience).

See my post here

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=42708&mesg_id=42722&page=

Getting xp is not only about getting immteraction. I have given out xp to people that I am randomly watching or I am watching because they are grouped with my follower as a reward for good roleplay. Which is of course, something that is required in CF. I can assure you that my actions are not isolated and other immortals do this as well. Just to be clear, good stand-out type characters do not need to seek out immteraction or follow a god to get rewarded. I am for rewarding good characters, even if it is something minor such as access to edges that others characters cannot have.

Care to respond to my secondary suggestion? i.e. single cap on combined edge points from all sources other than aging and imm exp, then a secondary cap on imm exp?

This system would let each person accumulate edge points in the way he prefers. If I'm reasonably confident my character will experience PK success then I can feel free to make no extra effort to farm observation/exploration. If I don't think I'm going to have much PK success then I can farm observation/exploration until I reach the cap that way.

It's also worth considering that nobody really "enjoys" farming observation/exploration. There are plenty of people who enjoy exploring new areas, and observation/exploration does reward that effort. That's certainly not something I'd want to discourage. On the other hand, for someone who's already explored many/most of the areas in the game, the accumulation of observation/exploration is almost entirely mechanical and "un-fun".

nt

Was wanting to know xp totals.

I'm never going to be bored enough to sit down and try to add that up (and figure out what to not count and subtract because it's from areas that are closed now, etc.), sorry.