This is a semi-serious offer. I am able to take out a loan at the moment and I'd rather own cf than a car.

(But I can be bribed with academic books and Mexican tequila. Ha, no, I'm just kidding. You can PM me for titles.)

Guess ah'll be cfin inta meh fiftehs yeh?

Love, Khacan.

> But I can be bribed with academic books and Mexican tequila.
> Ha, no, I'm just kidding. You can PM me for titles.)

and here's me expecting scarab to be requesting souls or firstborn.

I missed out on getting any actual shares of the mud when it was being distributed early on, but I am pretty sure I and the other authors of the content within game still retain copyrights and full credit for our works and would be entitled to revoke it at any time.

Just something to keep in mind if it ever does get sold, which I hope to god never does. I still want to be able to roll up thief guildmasters from the retirement home if I live to 80.

jf

I'm sure software has its own specialized legal guidelines - but it's my understanding that you could sell the entire package as original intellectual property without fear of reprisal - especially if you politely cite DIKU.

My understanding is that once you've made a ("legally significant"?) edit from the original, you've created something entirely different, which is now your property.

But maybe software property rules differ from other intellectual properties (like art).

(This kind of sale would differ from say, selling the company, or the web entity - and would probably offer the most freedom legally.)

Splntrd

nt

I'm personally quite curious as to what CF is really worth, and who owns the rights to it?

All I know is that I get half Daevryn's share in the divorce. It's in the prenup.

.

No real text here, just that prenups are all powerful.

>.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/charlton-hestons-gun-taken-from-his-cold-dead-hand,10006/

Khacan was uber rp however.

I certainly never said otherwise. The RP was fine, if you were playing an Imperial who's whole role revolved around breaking imperial law with the necessity of a kleptomaniac on speed AND meth.

I never broke Imperial Law. Stealing is when you get caught...
It was a reverse plant.

nt

I'm sure I can pull well over 100 instances from the logs of this guy breaking imperial law. Stealing coins from other imperials, fly potions, teleport potions, general gear, items, weapons. Breaking the law in town. Stealing from people (often other imperials) in town. Stealing from other imperials while they're bitch ranking his duergar thief ass. Lying to Tribunals about warrants. Looting corpses in town.

The list is pretty extensive.

nt

w

Killing the empress when she is blind and saying someone else did it. Something like that.

Nah, it was just notable and interesting that someone made this role and got away with it so profoundly.

`

To be fair, were I an Empire imm you'd have been anathed probably before you went above blood oath.

nt

email me if you really want my thoughts. I'm not playing the flame game today.

-- Try an Enlilth follower today! Enlilth, now with 40% more chewey caramel in every bite. --

With my imperial shadow, I was ordered to break imperial law at will, and just to make sure I wasn't caught. Orders of the shadow lord.

Read the Shadow sect law.
Also, loyalties are foremost to yourself.

If those who played cf knew all the pillars, tablets, laws, ect.. ect. of the different cabals and religeons, the richness of their experience would be so great.

Maybe it was his clever political ploy to set you up for a quick anathema if he was the one that caught you. I hope you got those orders in a signed, notarized document!

Seriously, though, given Imperial Laws 1 and 4, I don't see any vagueness with regard to stealing or killing, at all. Sure, it goes without saying that laws are only good to the extent they're enforced, but that doesn't make the laws "vague". One of those arguments I never really understood. A real world comparison is the enforcement of medical cannabis laws in California. It clearly violates Federal law, and Federal prosecutors have the option to enforce Federal laws - and the fact California law explicitly permits it is not a legal protection from Federal enforcement (in fact, the shadow's argument against imperial enforcement is even weaker because nothing written in the shadow sect explicitly permits stealing and killing in violation of imperial law). Anyway, just a thought.

half baked ftw

I wouldn't say it's exactly rare for someone to get away with breaking Imperial Law, but it's rare for someone to get away with this much of it, especially when it's the kind of stuff that players don't want to look the other way on.

E.g. maybe my character should care if you're killing people in town, but maybe I as a player don't, but I sure care if you're stealing from me.

People wouldn't really know how bad they got it untill some times even the next log in when they noticed it was counterfeit. They could not always be sure it was me. I was playing a character that was always in your pockets, but much of the time he was appraising it. Khacan pretty much had his way with everyone he dealt with, it was like playing puppeteer because he had complete control of whether or not you could keep your Shinnies. Also, many factors let me go this far with him. Blades needed someone to detect/deal with Valliane. I spent two half sessions recruiting about 10 blood oaths by my hands or the recruiters. I could have gotten way, way, way more. Say I was relieving you of your return magics, gold and semi decent things. The next time you caught me online I would be telling you.. Heh, want this axe named Earthquake? Maybe, got a set of peripats for you. This character was getting deeper and deeper into a theoretical rabbit hole of trouble with what he was doing. In a way it was turning into a big soap opera and I really wished I played him out.

What helped the most was having this attitude. "I do not care if you are a duergar who can get revenge, or someone who can entwine or if I have to combat steal your berserker cloud giant ranger in the woods or invoker with quicksand." I would get your things, because I know how. Threats given out were taken as "Sounds like a challenge =)

>I'm sure I can pull well over 100 instances from the logs of
>this guy breaking imperial law.

> Stealing coins from other imperials, fly potions, teleport
> potions, general gear, items,weapons.

Technically it's only against Imperial Law to kill each other.

> Breaking the law in town. Stealing from people (often other
> imperials) in town.

By breaking the law, I assume you mean killing people. Yes, this and stealing are against Imperial Law (Unless of course the started a fight w/ another Imperial in that town).

> Stealing from other imperials while they're bitch ranking his
> duergar thief ass. Lying to Tribunals about warrants. Looting
> corpses in town.

Technically, none of this is against Imperial Law either. It's sure not going to make you popular with people, but unless you piss off the Emperor, Council, or someone they like, he's technically in the clear.

I understand the Empire has a tendancy that rank = power, and certain things can be bent or applied how the powerful want, but in a lot of those specific cases, it's at least something an objective Immortal really shouldn't bust them.

I remember having an Elite Warlock in Empire, never breaking the law except for one time when a PK spilled over into town (the guy was writhing outside town, ran to the pit, after we'd been going at it and he kept doing this hit and run crap). I chased and killed him. I knew it was breaking imperial law, and I didn't bitch and moan when some nameless Imm instantly busted me down to Black Servant. Yet, it was the only time anything like this happened with the character and I got raked over the god damned coals.

Why didn't you step in?

Here is the thread is the essence of being on staff (and your inability to win) in a nutshell.

Immortal: This player did this and I thought it was interesting that they got away with it.

Player #1: I think what they did is okay. I hope you didn't do anything.

Player #2: Why didn't you #### that guy up?!

Given that players -could- have worked out what was going on, I don't see that imms should need to step in.

It's not like initiating an attack in town against someone when you're the only imperial on and can't get caught (if you're a shadow).

Personally I think he took it to such an extreme that it's an interesting character, and should be left to play out. He didn't just do it for his own advantage. He did it beyond that for some interesting rp.

Here is the thread is the essence of being on staff (and your inability to win) in a nutshell.

Not sure what you're implying here, but ok.

I guess the point I'm making is that Imm intervention when a character breaks Imperial Law seemed like the norm the last time I was in Empire. Yet, this guy took it to an obscene level and didn't get punished, even though the staff knew it was happening the whole time. Plus, he's a stealth character so it's that much harder to ever pin anything down on him unless you have Imm knowledge.

I actually DO think it's cool that it is possible for this to happen. It was not possible during my character's lifetime. I feel like I missed the memo.

>Here is the thread is the essence of being on staff (and
>your inability to win) in a nutshell.
>
>Not sure what you're implying here, but ok.

Just the impossibility of making everybody happy.

You seemed upset that nothing happened to him; someone else posted and said they'd have been upset if something had happened to him.

Generally speaking, I almost never will do enforcement for a cabal that isn't mine, because I don't assume I'm 100% up to date on how that cabal's imms are handling things. I think most of the staff takes a similar approach.

I got punished by Grurk. Maybe that's relevant.

He made a semi-brief return just as Hunsobo had become Emperor and it was kind of odd - everything that had flown fine under Grurk was suddenly scrutinized. But he didn't do anything terribly bad, it just was kinda jarring.

The short answer is I was busy, and he just kinda slipped through. It's probably more complicated than that.

-- Try an Enlilth follower today! Enlilth, now with 40% more chewey caramel in every bite. --

Having had to study the Shadow Sect laws as my last Empire character before I stopped playing, stealing is specifically absent from the list of things mentioned that break the Law both inside the Shadow sect and in the Citizen halls.

Now if you are making the argument that it is the case that stealing breaks Imperial Law specifically, then you or Zulg have some rewriting to do.

That being said, outside of stealing probably everything else was breaking Imperial Law but shadows are actively encouraged to break the Law. It's if they get caught is when they have a problem whereas Enlilth, Twist and Zulg have been known to police every single other sect even in instances where other mortals could not possibly have noticed. Twist even tried to ding me for breaking imperial law but the difference of opinion for the situation in question was ongoing combat initiated by an enemy in Seantryn with my attacks in return triggering the automated alerts to that effect because the adrenaline just happened to wear off right before I attacked them again, lots of walking in circles.

I have never heard of anyone being anathema'd specifically for stealing, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't also demote someone as High Priestess for instance getting *caught* stealing beyond a shadow of a doubt (forcing me to confirm with locate object), in order to curb toeing the line. Shadows are actively encouraged even to murder other Imperials if they must, the one rule being that there is no protection from them if they are stupid enough to leave evidence. They aren't immune to the Law, but it's very vague and the sect makes that vagueness of application very clear.

If I am wrong, then someone needs to waltz their ass in the Palace and use the typo command on the laws.

How many Imperial Shadows have you actually played?

I realized the laws.