So I saw the dam redux post on the destructor from santa zulg and it got me to thinking a bit about cabal inner design and specically about cabal inners using cabal powers.

Outlander: Call Insects
Tribunal: Guardcall
Nexus: They appear to have the bond sort of
Fort: Phoenix Brand
Empire: Sigili of pain, Healing Curse
Scion: ....
Battle: ....

So all the cabal inners seem to enjoy the use of a cabal power or two except battle and scion. I was wondering if they could be given it? For scion it could be neat to see the archmage beckon druk'trar to harass people while they try and raid while scions are offline. For battle why not give the big D critical hit or field dressing?

Each inner operates differently, and thus it is difficult to compare them on the basis of 'difficulty to deal with', because different classes are effective/vulnerable to their powers.

Outlander has nasty debuffs and very hostile terrain. Death by isolation and attrition.

Tribunal has summons (high melee damage) and moderately hostile terrain (defenders can use manacles, guardcall, etc). Vulnerable to avoidance tanks and AoE.

Nexus has high debuff/direct damage power, good melee damage, and lagging attacks. Vulnerable to AoE.

Fort has restricted damage reduction, nonphysical damage type, and semi-restricted direct damage. Chance to flee in the 'correct' direction reduced.

Empire has raw melee damage, moderate to high debuff potential (axe kick, caltraps, blind, deafen, healing curse, etc). Vulnerable to AoE and avoidance tanks.

Scion spams debuffs (Deafen, weaken, poison, blind, slow, mental knife, etc) lag (buffet), and very high direct damage. Restricted damage reduction, moderate to highly hostile terrain depending on which defenders are around to make your life miserable.

Battle has damage reduction, moderate to highly hostile terrain (norecall), wide variety of warrior spec skills can screw you up.

Herald has a bunny. Fear it.

What works in one situation will not necessarily work in another. Generally, classes capable of AoE or avoidance tanking will do fairly well, provided they have a means of sustaining themselves against a very tough mob.

Avoidance tanks are countered by debuffers and direct-damagers.

Damage-reduction tanks are countered by high volume of melee attacks, and debuffers.

AoE monkeys are less useful against singular powerful inners such as the Chancellor or the Watcher. (They still shine in the group versus group setting of many cabal raids, though)

Sustain tanks are moderately vulnerable to debuffs (depends on the class) as well as the consequences of a drawn out fight. (You are focusing on keeping yourself up, not dealing damage, fights take longer, the executioner will guardcall more, etc).

For the big D there is nothing about it that suggests he is actually a battle rager otuside of his description. The archmage at least has its blackfire nova to distinguish it from other run of the mill mobs, the rest all do something cabalish

With CF the way it is now, I really don't think any inner should be able to kill a single raider if there are no defenders. Yes it should take the raider ample time to whittle down the inner, but the inner shouldn't be able to maledict any single character and also drop enormous burst damage as to kill a single raider.

A few suggestions. Increase inner guardians hp 50% while dropping the percentage of active skills/spells/powers they use by about 10, so that inners only pummel/sunray/black fire nova about once every 5 or 10 rounds compared to how it is now which seems like every round.

You could also give inners a bit of a sliding scale so that if a large group of raiders come against a single defender the inners are affected by a sort of gank code that lets them drop more damage skills/spells/powers one a sliding scale with the number of raiders.

But if it is just one raider vs one defender the inner should mildly maledict to give the defender an advantage, as well as having more hp so it takes longer... but the defender should be the one winning the fight.

This would bring a bit of life to cabal raids with the lower playerbase.

Then villagers might have a chance :p

Let me start off that I do enjoy when the particular inners feel like they would be an epitome member of the cabal.

Also, I think there are three main considerations of what makes raiding a cabal "dangerous". Sheer damage output of the guardian, combat maledictions from the guardian, and DoT effects. These combine to make for much different experiences based on two primary factors.

1) Can your character kill the defenders in a single attack?
2) Are there other characters defending the cabal?
2a) What abilities can PC characters bring to a defense to change the dynamic?

I'm going to try to write up my thoughts on the differing cabals, which cabals have strengths/weaknesses, and *MY* ideas what I think might be neat, and while *I* see them as reasonable ideas, I'm sure some people will find some of them stupid or overpowered, etc.

Battle:
The Destructor
Warrior, specialist in every weapon. Weapon changes during combat to direct what spec skills he uses.

First of all, how well he fits themically. Given the tendancy of warriors in the cabal, the Destructor being an all-weapon-spec warrior seems suitable. Beyond that, he occassionally feels a little bland, but I would attribute that to his not using ANY cabal powers, and being the oldest existing cabal inner in the game.

It's been awhile since I've fought him, but my guess is that the Destructor is one of the highest damage inners, fitting his warrior nature. No area attacks, though he MAY increase in power when fighting more opponents. I feel he used to, but I don't remember if he does now still. Using weapon spec skills, I feel he has little in the way of burst damage, maledictions, or DoT. However, does tend to rock out lag attacks or anti-flee abilities.

Overall, I tend to find the Destructor a challenge, but less likely to impact the flow of a battle. If I'm attacking Battle and I feel I can overwhelm the defenders (Destructor included), he does little to impact the battle and does comparitively predictable damage. Also, if we all can flee, there's little that prevents resting & healing.

Has


Thoughts for changes:

1) Themic: At the very least, let him trophy your corpse if he kills you. I just think it'd be fun for the Destructor to wear people's hides.

2) Themic: Though likely the most hated rager idea, I personally wouldn't object to seeing the Destructor to deathblow or critical hit, even if it meant lower average damage otherwise. I just envision the Destructor as a berserker type.

3) Burst: The Destructor uses his weapon spec moves BEFORE shifting weapons each round. That means if you can see, you ALWAYS know what skills it might be using on the next round. Though not changing any power directly, it would definitely make it more of a gamble of sorts if the weapon shift happened BEFORE the spec move was picked.

4) This is entirely by "feel" and not certainty, but do Outlander/Scion/Nexus inners use special attacks more frequently than the big D? Could be intentional being more "mage" types, but trying to read logs, it seems there can be periods where the Destructor is nothing more than a low level, high damage mob.

Themically, the Watcher comes across as a paladin/tara'bal sort, which works.

Only inner I know of to have a non-physical attack as a damage-type, two natural enemies vulnerable to it. Moderate amounts of burst damage, but typically one target. Three points of note tend to be Light of Heaven dispelling, fire and brimstone for area attack, and only 1-in-3 chance of fleeing correct direction if having to run. Also, cabal that typically has lots of healer/sanctuary types, though that can be more difficult if you can't attack them than if in your pk. Faces enemies that are typically either very powerful/skilled and/or summoners. In part, this can negate LoH's dispelling when dealing with Scion sorts (Yes, bias against no dispel of ABS).

Thoughts I might change, or just to spout ideas.

1) Themic: Given Empire/Nexus Inners and interactions, could consider giving the Fortress a paired Maran/Acolyte defender, instead of just the Watcher. Might even help dispel some of the idea that Acolytes never fight.

2) Themic: Since it uses searing light anyways, give the Watcher an actual lightforged searing light weapon.

3) Burst: Instead of strictly spells, maybe add, or swap out Strike of Faith for wrath or holy light, etc. Allows a bit more umph against neutral raiders, and SoF gives another area attack option.

Uhm...at the moment, I'm out of ideas. Trying to move along to the ones I think are a bit more out of whack.

Focus on evil magic, the Archmage strikes me as the mage to the Destructor's warrior. Versed in multiple magics. Horribly weak physical fighting, nasty with the spells. From what I can think of off the top of my head, it seems to tend to use old-school transmuter spells (soften/slow), and invoker spells. Many maledictions that are somewhat nasty for fighting under, but little that stops you from resting up and returning. Assortment of single target spells, and loves the blackfire nova. This changes though relatively quickly with defender abilities.

Thoughts for Scion

1) Why does it still use soften/slow and not metabolic quickening and corporeal softening? I suppose it fits with unknown magics, but figured would ask.

2) Add in more obvious necromancer, conjurer, transmuter spells. Replace things like wall of fire, maybe buffet, etc with reanimate if codeable, armor of living bone/wraithform (instead of stone skin?), perhaps disrupt bone or neurological, perhaps give the Archmage an option to animate a golem/zombie like the Executioner summons guards, or conjure a demon/nightwalker for a round or period of rounds. Obviously, this opens MANY balance issues, but I think necromancer and demon conjuring strikes me as more "Scion evil" than just slow-soften and invoker spells.

I realize #2 could have massive impact, but I think it could also balance the issues similar to watcher of being so burst damage spell heavy.

*shudder* Poor Tribunals. The Executioner strikes me as the most in need of help. The Executioner gives me little feel of "Tribunal" or "guard", has only(?) guard call for powers. Lots of hits, TONS more with guards, and/or Tribunals to warrant & more guards. However, if you can tank, the executioner's mostly a non-issue. Has the Fortress multi-flee issue, and the guards DO follow you, which is likely the only unique benefit of the Tribunal.

However, the difficulty with the idea of that, is what sort of class or powers really say "Tribunal", "Magistrate", or "Guard" to you? Warrior or shaman seems most "natural" to me. Shaman-esque maybe, though generally a neutral shaman would not fit, Inners are rather the exception.

Thoughts:

1) Could always give him the ability to wear Justiciar/Vindicator badge/insignia or the Magistrate Tower shield that was always popular. Mostly themic in nature.

2) Allow the Executioner to use Tribunal criminal powers on anyone raiding. Technically, they should be wanted no matter what at that point, but I think it'd be overmuch to automatically want people. Still, why not let the Executioner use manacles or bloody shackles...I would expect manacles moreso.

3) Tribunals already have such a headache in enemies retrieving and sitting in High Road, and Outlanders raiding who can generally safely hide just outside the city with chameleon. At the very least, hopefully the Executioner could get some faerie fire/blaze/illumination ability.

Ultimately, I think a lot could change with just giving the Executioner ANY class to be. The rest would change just based on what was picked.

I don't typically comment on such things, but in my experience having guardcall is often an annoyance. Most of the people who raid tribunal are outlanders, high lvl ones, and not the Mr. nice guy ones, so they simply subvert the guards and have extra attackers against the executioner.

If I had one wish, it would be that the guards were too proud to be subverted, or on a coin flip, they were a little higher in lvls or whatever needs to be to slow it's success rate.

I mean, I don't think most inners should be as tough as they are now. Consider how often you see raids succeed when there's actual opposition. Most that I see occur either with overwhelming odds or when the raided cabal is dead anyway. Also consider how many warriors you see picking whip/flail to entwine at their own inners, and drag people out of theirs. Especially in lower pop times (when solo), raiding is extremely dangerous.

By the way, Zulg said the big D uses resist, and the Archmage is the hardest of the inners for most characters regardless.

None of my chars have ever been able to take down the destructor in one go. The watcher is very tough as well. Watcher is most like to kill you in a bad string of specials, but it isnt nearly as hard to kill for anything I've played as the destructor.

Outlander inner is a bitch too. Not because it is strong (which it is), but because of all the #### it throws out that makes killing you in the stupid maze forest much, much easier. Hell, when I finally play an outlander I'll prolly let them take the fetish then kill them while they're incredibly debilitated (if someone is solo raiding and they havent seen me on).

>None of my chars have ever been able to take down the
>destructor in one go. The watcher is very tough as well.
>Watcher is most like to kill you in a bad string of specials,
>but it isnt nearly as hard to kill for anything I've played as
>the destructor.

Wow. I just feel like the rager hatred bleeds to everything. Yes, the Destructor can take a beating, but I don't think I've EVER died to the Destructor. Ironically, given the hatred deathblow causes, the Destructor is *REMARKABLY* predictable in it's damage and what malediction it gives you.

>Outlander inner is a bitch too. Not because it is strong
> which it is), but because of all the #### it throws out that
>makes killing you in the stupid maze forest much, much easier.
> Hell, when I finally play an outlander I'll prolly let them
>take the fetish then kill them while they're incredibly
>debilitated (if someone is solo raiding and they havent seen
>me on).

I agree to a point with Outlander. The Spirit's not SO bad directly, but if you cannot take it in a single go, the Spirit's much more difficult. Having to wait out DoT maledictions that impair retreat while facing a cabal that you're never certain how many enemies are about.

Personally, I find Nexus among the most dangerous to raid. Both cabal inners can throw out lag, and the transmuter can throw out massive damage attacks that also add DoT.

Destructor is just really hard to solo down. Not talking at all about him killing you.

Tanky/support builds actually have a decently tough time fighting the Destructor because of his massive amount of hit points.

If you played a fire sword spec with a decent damage set and Cry of Thunder the Destructor is almost comically easy (especially if you have gear to cover what stat loss you get hit with).

Whereas, as Daevryn said, a tanky build kinda laughs at Trib/Empire inners.

If you're going to weaken the Nexus inners output (which I agree with, as well as most other inners), you really have to increase their HP a boatload. The amount of time it takes for Battle to raid Nexus is already laughably shorter than the time it takes for Nexus to raid Battle. The Nexus inners are brutal for a single raider, but they die in seconds to 2-3 berserkers (and realistically who else is raiding Nexus?).

Also, the Destructor is going to put a bunch of spec damage on you regardless, and with his high hp and resist I just don't see any solo warrior taking him down in one pass.

Twist (Hunsobo) doesn't count because he has no feelings. Well, lecherous and inappropriate ones, perhaps

...have clearly played a cabalmate or groupmate to one of my characters. Ever.

The Destructor with critical hit?? What? You can't recall from anywhere in the Village. That is a HUGE bonus to battle.

I will allow that maybe Scion could use a little balancing. If you can't resist spells very well, it gets pretty tough in there. If you can, it's a cakewalk.

>I will allow that maybe Scion could use a little balancing.
>If you can't resist spells very well, it gets pretty tough in
>there. If you can, it's a cakewalk.

I think there's sort of a similar thing going on with Tribunal and to a lesser extent, Empire. If you're a really good avoidance-tank, those cabals are kind of a joke to raid (unopposed). If you tank with your face, ow.

With no PC defenders it's trivial to raid Tribunal. Empire is a little harder, but still easier than Scion/Fort/Nexus. Never tried to raid Outlander solo.

>With no PC defenders it's trivial to raid Tribunal. Empire
>is a little harder, but still easier than Scion/Fort/Nexus.
>Never tried to raid Outlander solo.

It really depends a lot on what you are. Granted, in the case of Tribunal I'm assuming you're wanted.

I've had characters that had a harder time with those two cabals than Scion/Fort/Nexus; perhaps not coincidentally, those are kinds of characters that aren't in your wheelhouse. For example, what bad tank (no extra tanking skills like distance, no improved tanking skills like shield mastery, and either no dodge or very low max dex) have you played that raids Empire? If you're a character that, at hero, mostly gets hit by the Empire Inners' attacks, it's an extremely hard cabal to raid.

(I may not be aware of all of your characters so I could be wrong about the above.)

>It really depends a lot on what you are. Granted, in the case
>of Tribunal I'm assuming you're wanted.

My only experience solo raiding Tribunal was with Sulye (felar ranger). When there were no defenders, I could do it in a single pass without resting.

>I've had characters that had a harder time with those two
>cabals than Scion/Fort/Nexus; perhaps not coincidentally,
>those are kinds of characters that aren't in your wheelhouse.

My only experiences solo raiding Empire/Scion were with Nhiala (shield paladin) and Mizfara (felar assassin). In both cases (except when I had strange bracers as Mizfara) I found solo raiding Empire to be tougher than raiding Tribunal as Sulye. In both cases I found solo raiding Scion to be tougher than Empire.

>For example, what bad tank (no extra tanking skills like
>distance, no improved tanking skills like shield mastery, and
>either no dodge or very low max dex) have you played that
>raids Empire?

Thing is, many of those classes can use barrier. It was trivial for Tavlin to raid Empire. Mhalrndarn also made it look pretty easy. I can imagine a souped up Scion invoker having a pretty easy time of it, especially given his ability to use area spells.

What make Scion tough for melee-based characters is that the Archmage slows you and does unblockable damage.

Fortress is hard for those who can't use a/s/b because the Watcher dispels other protections and haste. Also does unblockable damage similar to the Archmage.

If you have area attacks.

APs raid it with ease (since they hit all the inners with melee, twice if dual wielding AND with spells that, for many aps, get a boost from multiple foes).

Vokers can raid it relatively easily.

Necros can too.

That's just what I'd call "non tanks".

>Vokers can raid it relatively easily.
>

Relative to what? Scion, for example, is much easier for an invoker to raid. Fortress, too. Of course, they're all "easy" with max protect.


>
>That's just what I'd call "non tanks".

I wouldn't call an ABS invoker/necro/AP a non tank. A nontank IMO is something like a cloud giant ranger outside the wilds (i.e., something with limited dodge or non-special tanking skills or non-sleek protections (because who wants to use time consuming non sleek protections on a raid)). That is freaking HARD to raid Empire or Trib with.

The only cabal inners I'd truly call dangerous, though, are Nexus'. But that's because they're the only ones I was silly enough to die to unopposed

>>Vokers can raid it relatively easily.
>>
>
>Relative to what? Scion, for example, is much easier for an
>invoker to raid. Fortress, too. Of course, they're all
>"easy" with max protect.

Invokers/bards make a huge impact in Empire since their AoE effects let you tear through all four mob's hp at once. However, without someone else to tank for them, or enough damredux to absorb all the attacks, they're tanking with their face.

>>
>>That's just what I'd call "non tanks".
>
>I wouldn't call an ABS invoker/necro/AP a non tank. A nontank
>IMO is something like a cloud giant ranger outside the wilds
> i.e., something with limited dodge or non-special tanking
>skills or non-sleek protections (because who wants to use time
>consuming non sleek protections on a raid)). That is freaking
>HARD to raid Empire or Trib with.
>
>The only cabal inners I'd truly call dangerous, though, are
>Nexus'. But that's because they're the only ones I was silly
>enough to die to unopposed

Agreed, but they also have a combination of inners that can dish out lag, burst damage, and DoT maledictions. After that, I would probably call the Spirit the next most dangerous, more for the fact that it tends to throw out DoT maledictions that also hinder fleeing against a cabal that you never know how many people might be coming to defend.

Also outlanders are a SERIOUS pain due to spores/entangle/thornheart. Trib refuse to raid solo unless i can tank period. but truly i hate raiding the nexus more than anything in the world. I have died there so many times with villagers i cant even count.

I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.

As a shaman or a paladin, scion is one of the easiest, I found. Basically because the archmage slows you, which gives you lots of mana regen, even if mental knifed.

Empire usually took me two attempts (flee, heal to full, try again) whereas SCION could be done in a single attempt.

Nexun inners are by far the worst. I've been perma-lagged and died from 80% health against those inners (with all cabal skills up and no maledictions).

If I had to fix anything re: cabal inners, I would ask that if the Inner kills someone please don't make it a veteran mob If a couple ragers die to the Nexus inners during a raid those mobs are INSANELY tough.

Interesting. Did the Archmage not slow you? Or was it just that you had the means to reverse the slow (i.e. thirst)?

With both my characters that have tried to solo raid Scion and Empire, I found that black fire nova + slow from the Archmage just rocked my world.

Warcry as soon as you go in, so when the Archmage slows you, he just puts you back to normal speed.

Most of the time he wouldn't slow again, but if he did, I'd just flee and wait out the warcry timer and go back in.

I've done it, yeah, but the difficulty compared to other cabals isn't even close. The maledictions alone are stupidly out of proportion to other cabals.

Nexus and Scion have the toughest inners if you don't have a lot of DR - they can each just suddenly pop 1000 hp of damage in 2 rounds on you.

Battle has a tough one in that it does warrior moves which can lag you while you're getting beat on, but it isn't based on DR, it's based on tanking ability - good tanks will do pretty well.

Tribunal is arguably the easiest, unless you're a mage class and there is any PC Trib on at all, because they can manacle you and take you out completely.

Empire is tough for some mage classes, but easy for, say, a paladin.

Outlander is pretty easy for some classes (Brom, for instance, had no trouble solo raiding) and ludicrous simple for other (Tavlin would rank Outlander as the easiest of them all, with Fortress being the most difficult).

Fortress is easy with a solo DR type char (ABS'd invoker, black sanc shaman) and very difficult to anyone with a wrath vuln or who relies on charmies.

Each inner is roughly on par with the rest in overall difficulty, it's just that certain classes are stupid easy and some stupid hard for the various ones.

Aura shield stone skin desesitize and anthem wasnt enough because of those damn spores. Elf bard too.

I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.

>Empire is tough for some mage classes, but easy for, say, a
>paladin.

Kidding?

Invoker kills them in 30 seconds. Well, maybe 31,5.
Necormancer with army kills them easily.
Shapeshifter kills them easily (unless it's pure defense build).
Transmuter kills them easily (see Mhar and some other forties).
AP kills them easily even without charges.

I think only non-battle thieves could have problems with Empire inners. For everyone else they are just a snack.

Help! Someone is raiding for the Cabal!
- 3 ticks later -
Ooops, we are dead! Don't bother coming to defend - game over already.

Which sucks. Sucks not because they are weak, but because usually there are no time at all to come to defend and play "defending the base" game.

>Invoker kills them in 30 seconds. Well, maybe 31,5.
>Necormancer with army kills them easily.
>Shapeshifter kills them easily (unless it's pure defense
>build).
>Transmuter kills them easily (see Mhar and some other
>forties).
>AP kills them easily even without charges.

These statements do not match reality in my experience.

I will say that I think Empire does have the second-easiest raid for most classes, with Tribunal being the first.

I realize Tavlin is a special case, but you could kill the outer and all four inners (and be back at full health from summoning and vamp touching mobs) before I could word and spam walk from Galadon to the palace. Yeah yeah, should have changed hometowns.

>I realize Tavlin is a special case, but you could kill the
>outer and all four inners (and be back at full health from
>summoning and vamp touching mobs) before I could word and spam
>walk from Galadon to the palace. Yeah yeah, should have
>changed hometowns.

Yeah Tavlin didn't count in any of the above - Tavlin could raid all cabals easily except Fortress which absolutely sucked.

Until I learned to just raid without my charmies, then it went ok but took forever.

>
>>Invoker kills them in 30 seconds. Well, maybe 31,5.
>>Necormancer with army kills them easily.
>>Shapeshifter kills them easily (unless it's pure defense
>>build).
>>Transmuter kills them easily (see Mhar and some other
>>forties).
>>AP kills them easily even without charges.
>
>These statements do not match reality in my experience.
>

I agree with that. I played a character in the last year or two of one of those classes that really just could not raid Empire solo/unopposed given almost any amount of time. The same character could do Scion solo/unopposed (if not what I would call easily).

From all classes, only two have problems with empire inners: I think it's rangers and thieves? Everyone else should do just fine. Thieves and ranger with preps should manage too, I'd think.

And everyone else are wiping floor with the inners. I'm glad at least that this problem is being recognized and, probably, in 2-3 years will be fixed, heh. And probably not.

At least in my opinion Empire Inners need to be weak because Empire powers mesh so well with preventing a raid.

I agree that their damage output is ok. But they should have more HP/dam redux. Killing them in 30 seconds is just removes "defend the base" element from empire players most of the time.

I don't understand why you would write a reply to a post you clearly didn't read.

Just couldn't believe that because of two characters that you played empire inners should remain so weak.

What combos did you play that couldn't raid empire solo? Were they able to solo raid battle, nexus, outlander? Were they heroes? Did you use preps? And how the hell could you solo raid scions, while scions inner is one of the strongest in the game, and couldn't raid Empire, who are weak as ####?

Too many grazes and wounds from the Empire inners - DR just didn't help enough. Scion inner is only one mob with, I think, 2 physical attacks. The massive damage from its spells was largely negated by all the DR I had. Full shields and ABS and mantle.

What I can't believe is that you're arguing this point when you're *clearly* more experienced playing an Imperial than anything else in the game.

Actually, I retract that, I totally CAN believe you're arguing it, I'm just hoping you'll stop soon.

I've asked not to argue with you, but to understand your point.

I think Eachainn could raid Empire and kill inners + some defenders alone. I might be wrong, though, but it never been a problem for him to put a vortex, kill outer and half of the inners, run to balator and get up to 100% health in a moment and return. 2xhummingbinds helped, too.

Am I wrong here?

Heh. I've tried doing that. Sometimes everything doesn't repop and put you right back to the start, too.

But not often.

As tanked up as you need to be for that you're going to have to buy like 30 heals. That takes a while. (Edit: Unless you time *everything* perfectly, but that's not as easy as it sounds.)

Invoker + anything else does it easily. Just invoker? Eh... doable, sometimes. As long as you don't get healing curse or deafened or a repop or... etc.

The worst part about the Empire inners are the fact that even non-hero paladins and such can just laugh at them most of the time, while the Watcher is really dangerous to any evil out there.

For that matter, the three core Empire enemy cabals are all much tougher to raid than Empire itself, and the only single bonus is that Outlander rangers have trouble in the Palace (but 99% of them don't raid it anyway, and it's still not as bad as trying to raid Outlander while they have anyone online).

Really, Empire is super weak unless they have numbers + leaders around. A bunch of centurions and the higher tier powers are the only things that give them a chance in cabal wars.

I am willing to bet that no other cabal inner has as big a list of skills/spells that get selected from as the big D so the frequency with which it would fire is not all that high and the damage of a single hit from the big D is not all that high either.