DISCLAIMER: This is only my view on the game ability, known as a full looting. You can agree or disagree, or just don't care, it is up to you. This is how *I* see things and how do *I* act in some situations, and why do *I* think it's time for a full loot.

WARNING! Full looting is an existing game ability. You are absolutely FREE to use it due to it's game design. But, should you use this game ability often enough, you WILL be screwed by the immstaff (who implemented that ability), because obviously they think it sucks.

======= RULES! =======

RULE #1: Full loot is a good thing if he is an asshole.
- This person insults you IC/####talking
- This person entering on you OOC in agressive/insulting mode
- This person did something OOCish to piss you off
- You witnessed how this person did one of the above to other players or your allies
- This person is constantly doing something to piss you off (stealing EVERYTHING from your inventory, regulary stoneshattering all your moonstone chokers, denting your equipement and fleeing, and etc)

RULE #2: You are justified to full loot if they come to gang down your ass
- You are one, they are five and somehow you managed to kill one of them. You can full loot this one to prevent this lucky-five to come after you again as soon as fallen one unghosts (and uses his things to attempt to gang you down again)
- You are two and they are eight (look above)
- You can return his things later, when they are scattered/left and danger is gone, if he is not trashtalking
- Three noobs coming after you is not the same as three elite players. Don't full loot the noobs.

RULE #3: You MUST full loot if they are ragers and come with the mages or magic users
- Ragers come to the raid together with mages from another cabal, and they "do not notice each other". In that case, remember their names and make sure to keep them clean each time you kill them.
- Ragers come with stoneformed paladins that are wielding defiance and dragonkind/snake amulet, and they are grouped. In that case, always keep them both clean, to prevent such situations in the future.
- You the villagers, and enemy mages comes to strike you, and after you retreat, they do not notice each other. Same as above to both characters.

RULE #4: Someone is hoarding stuff he cannot use, or using other (barely playing) character to keep those things. Examples:
- Some evil bitch took two hummingbirds pendants and gave it to a character that is logging in once upon a blue moon
- Some rager got a cube of force and stopped logging
- Some young player hoarding two humansunders and logging once per 2-3 weeks, just to make sure they won't crumble
- Some herald superconservative herald thief hoarding most vlauable items and is not using them (I didn't see this, but heard a lot on the forums, so I believe that existed)

RULE #5: DO NOT LOOT if they have been ganged
- You come five to the raid, he is only one and defending and dying. In this situation, he durely deserving his things returned. I'd say, NOTHING should be taken, unless this one broke RULE #1, #2 or #3
- You ganged 5 to 1 a person from the RULE #1, #2, #3 - full loot the bitch
- Do not full loot the noobs even if it was just 1 vs 1 kill
- Actually, don't full loot the noobs

RULE #6: Don't full loot other's kills
- Just don't do it
- Screw it and do it, if it's a person from RULE #1, #2 or #3

RULE #7: If you chose the dark side of full looter...
- Even if you are justified, my experience tells me that full looting is a very negative thing and will give you nothing but a troubles
- Being a full looter will make you a public enemy N1 to everyone, imms including (they are really, really getting hurt when you full loot characters that they like, even if you think you have a good reason)
- Think twice before stepping on the path of a full looter
- Think twice again... and again
- Don't be surprised if you will get full looted ALWAYS, even if you don't full loot anyone anymore (this is a one-way road)
- Your reputation will be forever destroyed, even if you don't full loot anymore anymore (even characters from RULE #1, #2, #3)
- Nobody will believe that you had a good reason, because they see only little part of your life, and usually they do not see moments when exactly you were pissed off... but they always see when you full loot someone. You will be a bitch, no matter of your reasons or your past.

RULE #8: exceptions
- There might be situations, when you MUST full loot (fore example - you promised, or have been paid if you are a mercenary, etc). Keep your word, even if it sucks. You are a man of your word, after all!
- You are naked and your enemy just died in front of you. Wear his things, don't be shy!

-------------
And side comment: if in 600 hours someone didn't full loot anyone (or did it twice and in one situation returned everything after the talk and explaination why he did it), and in next 100 hours he suddenly began to full loot some certain characters... Ask yourself, what happened. Could he suddenly become an asshole, or there are reasons.

I know, there were only one day when I fulled everyone from the fort while I've been very, very angered due to somethnig that happened in game (look "rules" above, first three). For this, I sincerely apology to some players (not very experienced), who got on the way. After that bad day, I've returned to those "rules".

And lastly... in every joke there is some joke, this post included.

So people who full loot things from glass houses etc etc. I'm not trying to be a ####, just saying I'm more than a little surprised to see this from you.

I got a pretty good laugh out of the idea of full looting a glass house. That makes for a hilarious mental image.

nt

but you're still a jerk

Tzaritzawah Tenebraus the Picker of Pocket Lint, Imperial Dread Lord.

I wonder if they'll give you a new one now?

Tzaritzawah Tenebraus the Champion of the Full-Looter's Virtues?

Tzaritzawah Tenebraus the Honorable Picker of Pocket Lint.

Tzaritzawah Tenebraus the Looter Lord.

Or since you like to bleed people dry so much...

Tzaritzawah Tenebraus the Lawyer.


I like that one. That'll really tell them that you'll take them for all they're worth, eh?

I fought you as Gabrucin recently and came close to getting you a few times but your character seemed generally sound in the game.

Why would you post this under your currents name and sully yourself?

You have all but ruined your character by the ooc bleedout on the forums.

I don't get it.

It's in the past though and probably been caused by misunderstanding.

Yet, I do not see anything wrong with the discussing my point of view on the full looting, since all the whine and cries about it is an OOC thing.

So, topic may be closed - it went further than discussion of principles of the looting and went toward my character and persona, which is wrong.

Thanks to everyone for participating.

Disclaimer: I have fought you a bit and you haven't looted me and I haven't seen you do this to people.

But based on the fact the imms thought you needed a title for it and the fact that you felt the need to start a discussion to justify your philosophy I can conclude the following.

You are crossing the line. You know you are crossing the line but want people to change their perception of where that line falls. Just step away from the line (to the good side) and stop posting with your char name on the subject.

PS. I also think it was funny you were threatening paladins with full loots for destroying your zombies. Its funny because what are you going to do to them without your zombies?

You are mostly right. I will follow your suggestion and stop posting for now from as Tzar. Later, it will become the new account here, so no big deal anyays (especially since everyone seems to know who am I, thanks to some very kind person with a very evil memory).

Posting from my current official account wouldn't work, since it would be just telling everyone: "Hi, it's me and I am playing Tzar". So I did not have that option.

PS. There are some tricks how to do it without zombies, though it surely a lot more difficult.

n/t

Only full loot if you get full looted by someone and smack talked - at which point the proper procedure is to multi-kill, full loot and full sac their newbie breads. With any luck they will rage delete.

Also full loot people who smack talk OOC. Hopefully they will rage delete and go away. No one likes these people.

Also full loot people who try to gang you down 3+ to 1 outside of raids. It's called consequence.

Aside from that - no.

You should probably stop posting with your current character's name. Merging your forum persona and your in-game persona into one, indistinct entity is bad for you, and bad for everyone who might interact with you (Imms included).

Not like everyone doesnt know who he is.

I don't.

asdf

nt

Elhe and Beront come to mind, at least. Non-Russians are less prone to do so, though.

Ok, so given the rules listed above, tell me where summoning your zombies away from you to kill them falls? Cause I distinctly remember you threatening me with a full loot for doing that to you as Morin.

It was not just because of zombie summoning, but because of your trashtalking and ignoring me soon after you did it. I hate such behavior, when someone tells you something and after, before person answered, ignores them.

Combining with your tactics - do not face me and just summon zombies, or come *only* with others (usually 2 or more), you earned that warning. Even then, when you died and I knew where were your corpse, I didn't do it (Morin didn't piss Tzar enough for him to bother). Though I surely could.

So yes, this is not in the list. But to Tzar, this *was* a very serious piss-offing. Would I full you? Don't think so. But maybe I would, depends on the situation.

See and here is where we'll disagree. Cause to me, I looked all over heck and gone for you. Probably at least an hour IRL. Then when I finally started taking your zombies, you started talking what to me was blatently OOC trash. Saying that if I kept it up you'd make sure I ended up naked when you killed me etc. I'm quick to ignore people who start that crap now.

As for the tactics. Not for nothing, but with at least three of you spectre/mummies walking around with full sets of HLK zombies, I think that's a perfectly acceptable tactic. And if I remember correctly, yes you did get me after that. Good job. But dude, before you go patting yourself on the back, I died like 71 times in PK, its not like it was that hard. Go ahead and post a log of what you call my trash talking, cause honestly, I think you're projecting.

a) I never went ooc with any of the characters. Calling someone "coward" as an evil one is a perfectly acceptable thing.

b) I've been spotted by the one of the forties in Arborian church. Just you were not up for the challenge going there.

---
Log, in which I am trying to provoke you to come, calling a paladin a coward:

You tell Morin 'If you will not stop act like a coward, next time I murder you, you will greately regret for this annoyance.'

Morin tells you 'If I can't find you I will remove your army. Simple as that.'

You tell Morin 'Very well.'
You tell Morin 'You have been warned, and do not blame me after that.'

Morin tells you 'Threats mean little son. '
---

Youre an ass, sir.

Maybe it's the fact that your ESL, but where in that is there trash talking? I'm pretty sure that it's coming from you. and for that fact I'm pretty sure that in that instance I was the only fortress on, so saying that they spotted you in arboria is a load of crap, cause if they had, I'd have probably gone to get you. But see, Here's the deal, when I read

"You tell Morin 'If you will not stop act like a coward, next time I murder you, you will greately regret for this annoyance."

This to me is a thinly veiled OOC threat to Full loot me. Hence the Ignore. It smacks of "Stop stealing my zomies away when there's no risk for you, or I'll full you when I kill you". Which to me is just you being an ass.

RULE #5: DO NOT LOOT if they have been ganged
- You come five to the raid, he is only one and defending and dying. In this situation, he durely deserving his things returned. I'd say, NOTHING should be taken, unless this one broke RULE #1, #2 or #3

There are situations where people who live by this annoy me. First, we gang down this well dressed fellow who comes to retrieve his item from us. I sit there in my noobly rags while this one guy tells us not to take anything from him. I look at his corpse and see an item I really want to have. I either take it and get #### from this guy for being "dishonorable" or something or just leave it there and grumble to myself about not getting this good piece of gear to replace my noobly rag.

Why is not being a #### and not taking anything I don't need enough? Gangs have greater need for gear than a single person, so it is only natural that they loot more. Hell, if a completely decked guy falls to a gang, he should be stripped bare. The people doing the killing should have enough gear slots to fill from the loot. They could always give their old gear back to the dead guy as change.

If he went alone, to try retrieve, and had guts, and didn't piss you off earleir or not cheated, doesn't he deserve some respect for that?

I do not take anything usually, but this is up to the players. If they are naked, poorly dressed or alike, sure they can take some things.

I've seen both - and everything were returned, and some things were taken. It's always depends on the situation and the character. I remember situation when we got someone and he had some things I really wanted, but I've let it go. Same happened to me when I died in such situations - nothing were taken, when one of them said something like "I so wanted this thing... but oh well, I will take it next time". Some bard of nexus, I think.

And acted both ways as well. I just don't like it when some guy commandeers others not to take anything. It should be up to you whether you go for the spoils or not. I've been told to not take anything when I've been half naked or poorly dressed.

This is a sad leadership, nothing else. Allies must be on the first place by default.

There are lowbies in every cabal. If allies should always come first, then full everyone, put it all in the pit so that it might benefit one who logs in later. That would benefit your allies most.

And then your whole cabal gets known for fulling everyone and in return gets fulled everytime they die. In my eyes, that's moronic leadership because you're setting a crappy example and your cabalmates often bear the brunt for your actions. Full loots are cyclical in nature and absent people killing and doing it to you, they'll just do it to your cabalmates.

As the nexus bard who pretty much yelled at anyone in my cabal for excessive looting, the rational behind it was pretty simple lots of times.

If you don't contribute to the kill, you don't loot from it. You think cause you're in my cabal you have a right to that? Absolutely not. Were I a villager and someone did that on my kill, he's going to the circle, and I'd probably strip him of a few pieces afterwards.

If you get looted by someone in on the kill, you can them pk them for it back, where as a lowbie you can not. I like the idea that the dead can get a chance at revenge and get their thing back. Personally I wouldn't mind if only people in your PK range could loot your corpse.

And I justified it this way from an RP standpoint. Revenge motivates your enemies. It drives people to continue. But if I leave them everything, and they still always die, they may see the hopelessness of it, that no matter their gear or anything else they won't win, and they give up. I figure not looting them is sportmanship as well as good RP if you spin it that way.

And this does not mean I advocate never loot anything. Not at all. You just don't need to take it to extremes with crappy justifications. If I or someone that helped kill the guy needs the gear piece, they should most certainly take it.

Between letting your allies loot items they immediately put to good use and fulling them in order to hoard items in your pit just in case someone happens to need them.

In this subthread, we were talking about the former, not the latter. I don't think that letting people take what they actually need would amplify the full looting cycle too much, providing that not everything is taken every time (and everything wouldn't, if people took only what they wanted on sight and left the rest). I think that telling your allies to leave everything even if they've been stripped bare or have bad gear is not a right thing to do.

As for the latter, full looting was the norm in Fort vs Empire war in 2005. If you died in the enemy cabal, you came back to an empty corpse. Both sides were doing it. The cycle works, and the fulling of your allies amplifies the need to loot the enemies in order to provide the fulled allies new gear. A recently fulled enemy ghost is going to strip your corpse bare if you happen to die while raiding and enjoy your armors. That's just how things work.

>If he went alone, to try retrieve, and had guts, and didn't
>piss you off earleir or not cheated, doesn't he deserve some
>respect for that?
>
>I do not take anything usually, but this is up to the players.
>If they are naked, poorly dressed or alike, sure they can take
>some things.
>
>I've seen both - and everything were returned, and some things
>were taken. It's always depends on the situation and the
>character. I remember situation when we got someone and he had
>some things I really wanted, but I've let it go. Same happened
>to me when I died in such situations - nothing were taken,
>when one of them said something like "I so wanted this
>thing... but oh well, I will take it next time". Some bard of
>nexus, I think.


I'm barely in hero range, you and I have never spoken whatsoever as these two characters, we're IC enemies by nature of our classes and cabals. You've hunted me down mercilessly every time you are online, make it impossible for me rank whenever you can, raid the cabal when it's just you and me to pull me to you etc etc. In other words you're a complete asshole IC, No complaints here I get it entirely.

Our most recent interaction you summoned me into a sleep from another imperial, then gang banged me down in 1.5 rounds between at least the two of you and your army. You or your group took only one item from my corpse. I'd spent the entire previous night acquiring it with help from a hero, including two mob deaths for me. It sucked, I was really discouraged, but that's a PK game.

The only way I can pay you back at anything close to the level of frustration you've given me should I happen to be present when your ultra powerful character dies is to see to it I leave you with nothing. I think this is the risk you run when you play an evil asshole character who does everything possible to harass people.... Gee thanks for leaving me the items I can walk up to the mobs and request.

This code is really a bunch of self serving crap by an elite evil player who has more to lose from people not doing it.

From an objective standpoint, of course.

Loot however much you want, whenever you want. Excuses and/or justifications just sound like the player trying to garner some sympathy/support.

If you play an evil asshole (which I'm totally fine with) don't be surprised if people treat you like an evil asshole. It's one of the things I learned on CF. You can't do a real evil character unless you're one of the top10 players on CF.

If it would not affect players behind the characters and relations with the imms. As well as in-game future of those characters. Currently, situation is different. Believe me, I know it very, very, very well.

I do not mind when other characters treat mine as an evil asshole. That is fine in some situations. But I am angered that this is going far behind the character (cexample: daervyn gave me out twice on the forums, breaking their own forum rules). It is not because my character is an asshole towards some characters (actually, only TWO characters in the whole game, who, from the viewpoint of my character, completely and totally deserved such treatment due to their actions).

Do I want to justify myself? Dunno. Earlier, I would want to. Now, I think I will just play and do not care for what anyone is thinking, because it will lead to nothing.

>But I am angered
>that this is going far behind the character (cexample: daervyn
>gave me out twice on the forums, breaking their own forum
>rules).

I'm not sure you understand the forum rules. Probably something is lost in translation.

gr

It wouldn't be the first time I incorrectly guessed someone as ESL.

Evil Scums League?
English Second Language?

Which, if the case, much respect because despite years of education to the contrary I don't speak or read a non-English language worth a damn, but you still have to figure now and again something is lost in translation.

Full looting comes back to bite you in the ass eventually. People who full loot/sac others are far more likely to be full looted/sacced themselves when they get killed. If you play the full looting game, for any reason, don't bitch about it when you return to your empty corpse.

This includes other people in your cabal as well. If your cabalmate/groupmate plays the full looting game, you are more likely to return to an empty corpse when you die. This might also apply to your groupmate's cabalmate playing the full looting game.

NT

My caveats to your rules:

>RULE #1: Full loot is a good thing if he is an asshole.

Just be sure the dude's legitimately an asshole and you're not just mistaking his role-play, which may include IC insults, for the player being a douche.

>RULE #2: You are justified to full loot if they come to gang
>down your ass

Unless it's the case that none of those characters would have had a reasonable chance of killing you solo. In which case, can you really blame them for ganging you?

>RULE #3: You MUST full loot if they are ragers and come with
>the mages or magic users

As long as you're sure they're working together. Them attacking you at the same time is not prima facie evidence of cooperation.

>RULE #4: Someone is hoarding stuff he cannot use, or using
>other (barely playing) character to keep those things.

Unless you're on 24/7 you can't always know how often someone is playing. If an evil guy is hoarding good-only stuff (or vice versa) then I'm on board with full-looting that guy. Not herald thief, considering herald thief probably uses his gear for PvE exploring. I don't fault him for that.

>RULE #5: DO NOT LOOT if they have been ganged

Depends on why the guy was ganged. If I'm walking around with a group and some guy attacks me and dies horribly, and his gear is legitimately better than what I'm wearing, you bet I'm taking it. I'm not fulling him, but neither am I going to abstain. Ditto if he attacks my cabal and I arrive (with gang) and kill him. Or if he's super-powerful and I had to muster a gang just to have a shot at taking him down (see: Tavlin, etc.)

#1 - you are being insulted / ####talking. Usually you can understand if it's RP or someone being an asshole. If you cannot figure that out, his character probably deserved full looting since your character is insulted. If it happens once - it is fine, but if they repeat ####talking, forcing you to do "ignore character" - I, personally, have a GOOD reason to full.

#2 - If it is 5+ to one, I am very well justified to take it and keep from them until hard time is ended. I can tell to that someone to come back for his things later, when it's safe (usully do it, if it's not someone who constanly pissing me off).

#3 - If it happens once, that is fine. But if you see it every day, every time they are both logged on, you have very good reason to believe that htey are cooperating (if you are not a complete fool).

#4 - Some players are on 14-16 hours, I've been on even 18. You have cabalmates/friends who also can share information. Player do not growing in rank at all, too. Some can intentionaly play their minimum to keep things from puffing - this is why there is an anti-hoarding code, not because I've imagined something. But some players learned to avoid it. Heralds - I partially agree, but when everyone begins to complain (and it's more than 10 players), and your own information proves it, why not? In that case, you have a little chance, though.

#5 - Certainly not full looting, except if this is one of the guys who "broke" rules #1, #2, #3 or a powerhouse like an imperial mummy. In this situation, full looting is a tactical advancement, this is obvious. As well as obvious taking things that you will use.

I've been speaking of full looting here, not partial looting, and of the whining reaction to this part of the game.

>And side comment: if in 600 hours someone didn't full loot
>anyone (or did it twice and in one situation returned
>everything after the talk and explaination why he did it), and
>in next 100 hours he suddenly began to full loot some certain
>characters... Ask yourself, what happened. Could he suddenly
>become an asshole, or there are reasons.

Generally I assume the character was traded to someone else at this point.

sv svwf

I know of a couple of instances in the last few months. If you notice someone go from being a wet noodle to clearing his range overnight its a good clue. Of course I only knew because the players in question told me. Most of the time when it happens the character was so under the radar originally you wouldn't have noticed them before.

Going from pk-wet-noodle to clearing your range overnight isn't always a sign of a traded character. It can often be the player having an epiphany of exactly how powerful a certain class/cabal skill is, reaching a level of a certain class/cabal skill, or managing to get an edge that they had really needed.

At least, this is my experience with some of my own chars.

RULE #9: Full loot members of known permas.
- Permas are bad for the game and should be looted to deter the furthering of permas.
- Nike?

As well as situations, when someone calls his OOC friends when unable to do it in game and you sure for 100% that it was an OOC call (slept and player is not grouped with him, gagged, etc).

I played a druid who I let auto recently, and there was an occasion where I treeformed in Silverwood because I didn't have any teleport potions (having been looted and not replaced them).

Anyway, I hoped the orc would think I'd teleported. Instead, he either lucked out and walked into the room where I was, or he realised I hadn't and searched for me. He seemed pretty skilled so I reckon the latter.

Anyway, he then plagued himself with an edible prep and berserks next to me waiting for me to catch it. (I'm a wood-elf.) So I'm sitting there hoping he gives up before I catch it, but knowing that isn't going to happen. Just as I'm thinking of ending it all, in walks an elf warrior. I let them fight a few rounds so that the orc would turn his full attention to the warrior, popped out and made my escape. He, unsurprisingly, figured that something dodgy had gone on, but it hadn't.

Hopefully he realised that from the fact that I fought him when I was very likely to die (and did). So dying wasn't an issue.

I'm not a big fan of repeated full loots. That eventually starts to look like OOC griefing at some point. Especially with a character like Tzaritzawah, who jack every single item risk-free trouble-free in a single command, while other characters just don't have that option.

I'm especially not a big fan of full looting if you've killed the character several times and that character you've been fulling has never killed you and likely never will kill you.

It's just like, you know you can get away with it and never face the consequences because you're playing a character who is one of the hardest things in the game to kill.

If you were playing someone who was fairly easy to kill, you'd be a lot more hesitant to kick the full loot cycle into action, but if you're scion invoker or god forbid, empire mummy, dying is something that happens once a blue moon. You probably won't suffer nearly as much as the people you full loot over and over because you're so ridiculously hard to kill, so I'm actually okay with imms titling you negatively over it. Not many other consequences for you at the moment.

And full looting is indeed part of the game, but you have to understand why people would be pissed off that you've just eaten up hours upon hours of hard work just because you don't like them. Especially if you do it over and over again, and never suffer the consequences yourself.

>loot over and over because you're so ridiculously hard to
>kill, so I'm actually okay with imms titling you negatively
>over it. Not many other consequences for you at the moment.

Here is one I dont get. Ultra evil powerful character gets a ####ty title, but not forced to return items or other in game punishments. I'm new/back to the game after a 10+ year hiatus. Playing a teen level character. I happen on a situation where a fort characters died to imperials just inside imperial land. I saw the fight was happening, and heard the death cry. I pay centurions to get to the corpse. The fort characters not decked out but he's got 4 or 5 items in it that I can use. I start taking those items, and only those items... Enlilth punts me from the corpse? I'm not full looting, I'm not a level 2 character doing this, yes - I'm orderly, but it's not in a protected area, but the guy who died is a righteous goody-goody..it's completely IC for me to take what I want...isnt it?

Do imms usually get involved in these kind of situations or did I just hit on the jackpot of power tripping / circumstances / bad day?

I'm not familiar with the event in question, but if Enlilth (or any imm) is "down there" with mortals he's in character. If you run into the room and start looting rather than acknowledging his presence he's liable to throw his divine weight around in such a way.

Along the same lines, you can kill a paladin, but I wouldn't do it while they're in the room with Baerinika rapping with her unless you want to be very dead very fast.

Your RP does not make you immune to the effects of the RP of others.

But don't forget sportsmanship, it exists even in real wars, and this is a game afterall.