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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 08:37 AM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41035, "Random Comments of the Morning:"
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1) Whenever you think something is too good or too unbeatable, or even if you just think a certain combo can't stand up to another certain combo, the best way to find out if and why you're wrong is to play whatever you think is on the strong side of that imbalance seriously.
Even if you have to play something you'd otherwise never play to do it, you'll keep the knowledge of how to beat that thing for all successive characters.
2) Whenever I read logs I'm struck that y'all prep a lot more than I usually do. Or more than, say, Twist does, for that matter.
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Daevryn said it,
BaronMySoul (Anonymous),
03-Nov-11 08:02 AM, #49
RE: Random Comments of the Morning:,
Isildur,
02-Nov-11 05:52 PM, #35
Aside:,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 03:00 PM, #23
Sorry.,
TMNS,
02-Nov-11 03:08 PM, #27
RE: Sorry.,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 03:16 PM, #28
RE: Random Comments of the Morning:,
Straklaw,
02-Nov-11 02:07 PM, #20
RE: Random Comments of the Morning:,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 02:26 PM, #21
Sorry, meant mob/PC level.,
Straklaw,
02-Nov-11 03:03 PM, #25
RE: Sorry, meant mob/PC level.,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 03:27 PM, #29
I'm not one to cry wolf about overpowered things,
_Magus_,
02-Nov-11 04:02 PM, #31
Play an evil conjurer.,
TMNS,
02-Nov-11 04:26 PM, #33
That's just an excuse though,
_Magus_,
02-Nov-11 05:51 PM, #34
A recent example,
MoetEtChandon,
02-Nov-11 07:42 PM, #41
Pretty sure morosa demons dont have damnation. nt,
Artificial,
02-Nov-11 09:07 PM, #42
Might have been curse than.,
MoetEtChandon,
02-Nov-11 09:10 PM, #44
Don't curse neither. nt,
Artificial,
02-Nov-11 09:12 PM, #45
Oh! While it's no longer 4 AM ...,
MoetEtChandon,
03-Nov-11 12:40 PM, #53
Evil Conjie = RBW of mages.,
Straklaw,
02-Nov-11 06:42 PM, #39
No, that's not even close to the real drawback of evil ...,
Vortex Magus,
05-Nov-11 12:36 AM, #59
RE: No, that's not even close to the real drawback of e...,
Eskelian,
07-Nov-11 12:50 PM, #60
Depends on your familiar,
incognito,
07-Nov-11 06:21 PM, #63
I'm with you here,
AXera,
03-Nov-11 06:52 AM, #48
yeah conjies are interesting,
laxman,
03-Nov-11 08:53 AM, #50
Lies.,
Twist,
02-Nov-11 09:07 AM, #2
RE: Lies.,
Eskelian,
02-Nov-11 09:26 AM, #3
RE: Lies.,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 09:32 AM, #4
RE: Lies.,
Eskelian,
02-Nov-11 09:35 AM, #5
you got this backward,
laxman,
02-Nov-11 09:44 AM, #6
Not backwards no.,
Eskelian,
02-Nov-11 09:47 AM, #7
Amen.,
TMNS,
02-Nov-11 01:10 PM, #11
Tangent,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 01:12 PM, #12
Another Tangent.,
TMNS,
02-Nov-11 01:38 PM, #14
RE: Another Tangent.,
Malakhi,
02-Nov-11 01:24 PM, #15
I am posting here for the first time in a long time to ...,
Graatch,
02-Nov-11 01:53 PM, #19
Literally LOL. People are starting to look at me...,
TMNS,
02-Nov-11 02:43 PM, #22
Well played. (nt),
Twist,
02-Nov-11 07:36 PM, #40
that log should be in the academy nt,
Dallevian,
02-Nov-11 09:08 PM, #43
I dont even know what a unicorn pendant does or is nt,
Tesline,
04-Nov-11 02:22 PM, #54
It's the previous version of the hummingbirds (n/t),
Daevryn,
04-Nov-11 04:44 PM, #55
Why? nt,
Tesline,
04-Nov-11 05:05 PM, #56
RE: Why? nt,
Daevryn,
04-Nov-11 07:44 PM, #58
RE: Why? nt,
Onewingedangel,
09-Nov-11 02:28 PM, #69
har!,
The-me,
07-Nov-11 05:58 PM, #62
Unicorn love,
Gaplemo,
03-Nov-11 10:58 AM, #52
I'm not surprised. When was your last level 51 goodie w...,
Vortex Magus,
07-Nov-11 08:23 PM, #65
Unless you get a rager bard :),
lasentia,
02-Nov-11 01:26 PM, #16
Yeah, rager bards are permalag meat :),
TMNS,
02-Nov-11 01:37 PM, #17
RE: Lies.,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 09:54 AM, #8
Outlined it on the other boards.,
Eskelian,
02-Nov-11 09:58 AM, #9
Where is the like button? n/t,
orangepowered,
02-Nov-11 01:47 PM, #18
What do you mean Gamechanging gear?,
Tesline,
04-Nov-11 05:08 PM, #57
RE: What do you mean Gamechanging gear?,
Eskelian,
07-Nov-11 01:16 PM, #61
I have heroed a few including...,
Tesline,
09-Nov-11 07:01 AM, #66
You can't include shifters in this equation (Even with ...,
Alston,
09-Nov-11 10:34 AM, #67
Im not saying naked thats stupid but,
Tesline,
09-Nov-11 11:18 AM, #68
Let's agree to disagree.,
Eskelian,
10-Nov-11 12:56 PM, #70
RE: Lies.,
N b M,
02-Nov-11 03:01 PM, #24
RE: Ragesteel,
Straklaw,
02-Nov-11 03:07 PM, #26
RE: Lies.,
Daevryn,
02-Nov-11 03:30 PM, #30
RE: Lies.,
N b M,
02-Nov-11 06:36 PM, #38
RE: Lies.,
Malakhi,
02-Nov-11 01:15 PM, #13
RE: Lies.,
Eskelian,
02-Nov-11 06:20 PM, #37
RE: Lies.,
Malakhi,
02-Nov-11 09:17 PM, #46
RE: Lies.,
Eskelian,
03-Nov-11 08:57 AM, #51
RE: Lies.,
Isildur,
02-Nov-11 06:00 PM, #36
Silent Tower changed that though,
incognito,
07-Nov-11 06:33 PM, #64
Noob!,
Explosion,
02-Nov-11 10:13 AM, #10
:P,
Zephon,
02-Nov-11 04:17 PM, #32
Twists half-preped characters,
SideStrider,
03-Nov-11 02:23 AM, #47
RE: Random Comments of the Morning:,
Eskelian,
02-Nov-11 08:45 AM, #1
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#41122, "Daevryn said it"
In response to Reply #0
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Something that might be helpful would be an official "Daevryn said it" forum outside of the gameplay forum. I find that a lot of times I have to do time-consuming searches to prove that you said something (or sometimes didn't say something). A separate forum would be a boon to facilitate game knowledge and mitigate the internet info effect. A recent example: I was debating with a friend over whether or not serpent strike counted metal vulns (we already know it doesn't count elemental damage). I *think* Twist answered on it, but the post didn't have a huge number of views and the debate will likely come up again sometime in the future. Another example is when you offhandedly mentioned that fluid deceptions legacy makes building up striking charges a lot tougher, but it's never something I hear in STSF arguments.
To make the process of which posts to include easiest on you, someone could cut and paste a link to the original thread with the subject simply stating what's being answered, then submit for approval. No additional posting allowed, so minimal effort on imm part to moderate.
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Isildur | Wed 02-Nov-11 05:52 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
5969 posts
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#41074, "RE: Random Comments of the Morning:"
In response to Reply #0
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>1) Whenever you think something is too good or too >unbeatable, or even if you just think a certain combo can't >stand up to another certain combo, the best way to find out if >and why you're wrong is to play whatever you think is on the >strong side of that imbalance seriously. > >Even if you have to play something you'd otherwise never play >to do it, you'll keep the knowledge of how to beat that thing >for all successive characters.
Maybe. It may also be that the allegedly unbeatable class is only unbeatable when played in a certain way, and you may not be the sort of player who can (or is willing to) play that way.
For instance let's say I'm unhappy that whenever my assassin runs at a thief I either 1) get jacked and stolen from or 2) thief misses the jack then immediately flees and runs away.
So I roll a thief and end up playing aggressively, running at people and trying to attack them, and not being unwilling to take some chances against people I match up semi-poorly against. Consequently I end up dying, and my gear probably never gets to the point it would have if I'd been more conservative. Does my experience playing this thief really speak to my assassin's complaint about specific thieves? Not really. Mainly because played-by-me thief doesn't necessarily behave the same way as played-by-someone-else thief.
Sometimes when people complain about a combo being "unbeatable" what they really mean is "nigh-unbeatable by what I happen to be playing at this very moment.". And, in some cases, they may be pretty close to correct.
Also, player skill matters. Maybe a certain combo is "nigh unbeatable" when played by someone skilled, but that's not the case when it's played by a more mediocre player. If I'm a mediocre player, then putting myself in that guy's shoes may not actually teach me anything. Even if I end up dying a lot, it may be in situations where the more-skilled guy would be very unlikely to suffer the same fate.
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 03:00 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41061, "Aside:"
In response to Reply #0
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STSF never cared about WIS more than INT. In fact, for a long time (including the gnome warrior era, I believe) it didn't care about WIS at all.
I've been seeing that one pop up now and again and I end up swearing at my monitor because someone is wrong on the internet.
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 03:16 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41066, "RE: Sorry."
In response to Reply #27
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>Aside, we know now you read QHCF at least enough to come here >and drop the proverbial bitch slap.
I don't always, but sometimes I do.
And, hey, I try to correct your misconceptions here and there to keep everyone more on an even keel of understanding how the game works or has worked.
>I will say this. At one point, you did change striking >slightly, because I remember a dwarf warrior (played by SnS >Esq, if I remember correctly) blocking me and Jaguab from >fleeing after like 6 or 7 combat rounds. I specifically >remember Skiltore (Jaguab) saying that the monk that taught >that must have been crazy, and then his next char was a gnome >STSF char
Well, keep in mind that it's always had a chance to learn something each round; if you were a bit lucky with even a medium mental stats character you could be cutting people off at the third or fourth round. Just like you tend to remember the time deathblow went off four times in a round and put you straight to dead, you tend to remember the times Striking surprises you, too.
But, yeah, it's seen a fair amount of tinkering over time. A lot of it didn't work right at all for the first year or two it was in, and once that was corrected it took some adjusting to where it felt like it was good enough, but not too good.
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Straklaw | Wed 02-Nov-11 02:07 PM |
Member since 10th Mar 2003
1014 posts
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#41057, "RE: Random Comments of the Morning:"
In response to Reply #0
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>1) Whenever you think something is too good or too >unbeatable, or even if you just think a certain combo can't >stand up to another certain combo, the best way to find out if >and why you're wrong is to play whatever you think is on the >strong side of that imbalance seriously. > >Even if you have to play something you'd otherwise never play >to do it, you'll keep the knowledge of how to beat that thing >for all successive characters.
Sadly, for as much as people used to say they were horrible, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Evil Conjurer. I decided to try one recently to see if they sucked as bad as people said, and it's honestly stupid powerful. I can't even find my wands, and I was working people (Particularly those poor ragers. Nightgaunt isn't even fair for ragers).
Scion Conjurer is ridiculous and sucky to fight, but hey, someone's got to be the bad guy and that I don't mind so bad. They're usually just better than me to begin with. Scion conjurers with greater devil conjuring? Seriously, WTF are you thinking! In reference to Jerohk, pretty sure this is after repeated deaths to Charine. In part, I'm not one to run away from fights just because he is overwhelming me (no way to figure out a way to win if you don't try), and in part because those devils left me with such ridiculous damage over time affects it was half pointless to run anyways.
Wed May 26 05:48:32 2010 by 'Lyristeon' at level 50 (130 hrs): The guy tries. But someone needs to teach him about 'Tactical Retreat'.
At least there I was a hero paladin. Nowadays, I'm dealing with it in the mid-thirties. At least tell me some of those abilities come with devil level?
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 02:26 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41058, "RE: Random Comments of the Morning:"
In response to Reply #20
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> At least tell me some of those >abilities come with devil level?
As in, lower classes of devils can cast only a subset of the spells? That's the case. Most of the scary stuff starts to appear around Barbed IIRC.
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 03:27 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41067, "RE: Sorry, meant mob/PC level."
In response to Reply #25
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>Heh, it's painfully obvious once you start dealing with >fiendish ice devils that they're about six steps above even >lesser ice devils. Those things are just wrong.
They only have an extra spell or two, IIRC. Without doing the math I don't think they're likely to be more than a level or two higher.
>I seemed to remember a comment that players won't see all of a >familiar's abilities at level 17, implying maybe that you got >some stuff at higher levels with familiars.
Again, assuming I remember what I was talking about, the main implication of that was that you might have a familiar with abilities that wouldn't be relevant until a higher level, not that you wouldn't see abilities on skill until later. For example, you get familiar at 17 and some familiars have abilities that modify conjuration spells (all of which have echoes when relevant) so if you have a familiar that helps you with elemental summoning, that isn't immediately apparent at 17 since conjure elemental is 3 levels later.
>My question was more, are there devil abilities that you (or >the summoned devil) have to be a certain level to see? Like >where bloodthirst does X, Y, & Z at hero, but only Z at level >35.
Abilities on angels/archons/devils/demons are set by servitor "class", e.g. abishai/bearded/barbed/ice, not by their actual level. That being said, they cast their spells pretty much at their level just like a shaman or whatever would, so wrath from a level 40 angel is going to do more damage and last longer than a level 30 angel's, just as a level 40 paladin's wrath does more damage and lasts longer than a level 30 paladin's.
Servitor level is somewhat correlated with class, in that the large mana pump and a bit of luck that it takes to get a lesser archangel instead of a winged angel also "buys" extra levels for the angel, but theoretically there's no reason a level 35 conjurer can't have a devil which will Rot you -- it's just unlikely to have much in the way of killing power because of its relatively short duration and the tendency of people in a level 35 conjurer's range to not have a 6 CON.
>Or are fiendish ice devils as absolutely terrifying at 40 as >they are at hero?
In terms of the spells they can cast, they are, but the hero's devil is likely to be a lot higher level.
For a number reasons which tend to compound on themselves, a lower level conjurer is much more likely to have a lower class servitor than a higher level conjurer. The Veil is a factor here, as well.
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MoetEtChandon | Wed 02-Nov-11 07:41 PM |
Member since 26th Jul 2010
293 posts
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#41087, "A recent example"
In response to Reply #34
Edited on Wed 02-Nov-11 07:42 PM
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A winged morosa demon's slice DISMEMBERS a Maran Tara'bal! A winged morosa demon's slice DISMEMBERS a Maran Tara'bal! A winged morosa demon's slice MASSACRES a Maran Tara'bal! A winged morosa demon's slice DISMEMBERS a Maran Tara'bal! A winged morosa demon's slice DISMEMBERS a Maran Tara'bal! A winged morosa demon mutters mad profanities from the Abyss. A shining silver construct's punch misses a Maran Tara'bal. A shining silver construct's punch decimates a Maran Tara'bal! A water elemental's drowning EVISCERATES a Maran Tara'bal! A water elemental's drowning EVISCERATES a Maran Tara'bal! A Maran Tara'bal's searing light EVISCERATES a shining silver construct! A tiny, winged nightwalker's asphyxiation maims a Maran Tara'bal! AllyAssassin's divine power DISMEMBERS OtherEvil! AllyAssassin's claw EVISCERATES OtherEvil! EvilConjie's chop misses a Maran Tara'bal. EvilConjie's chop misses a Maran Tara'bal. Your slash mauls OtherEvil. Your slash decimates OtherEvil! OtherEvil has fled! A Maran Tara'bal moves to block OtherEvil's path. OtherEvil's crush wounds AllyAssassin. OtherEvil is covered with bleeding wounds.
Not bad considering the Tara'bal had invoker shields on him.
I also remember getting thrown down from like 70% to 10%, while being a Dwarf (so not exactly with low hp) in sanc AND with invoker shields. Oh and I got damned in the process too.
All in one round.
(think I was around level 25ish)
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MoetEtChandon | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:10 PM |
Member since 26th Jul 2010
293 posts
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#41094, "Might have been curse than."
In response to Reply #42
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I can't find the log, sadly.
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MoetEtChandon | Thu 03-Nov-11 12:40 PM |
Member since 26th Jul 2010
293 posts
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#41134, "Oh! While it's no longer 4 AM ..."
In response to Reply #41
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You seemed to be thinking I was talking about this log, when I spoke of damnation, but that was an additional example.
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Vortex Magus | Sat 05-Nov-11 12:35 AM |
Member since 20th Apr 2005
400 posts
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#41212, "No, that's not even close to the real drawback of evil ..."
In response to Reply #33
Edited on Sat 05-Nov-11 12:36 AM
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Random mob deaths to your own servitors don't count as PK deaths anyway, exp holes can easily be retaken with a bit of time investment and if you're smart you'd have plenty of trains saved up to take care of the con loss. And any half-decent evil conjuror is keenly, keenly aware of how happy his servitors are, and will run to a desolate spot to either dismiss them or re-up their happy happy rates the moment he thinks he's losing control.
I played three evil conjies so far to a max level of forty, complete noobs, all of them, and though my servitors turned on my plenty of times, I rarely died to it. And I mean, seriously, I was really bad. And when I did die, only once did it happen in a PK situation where I would have won without servitors turning. And even then, I was able to word before my demon finished eating my face off, so my opponent didn't get a chance at my corpse. Didn't lose much at all out of it.
In my opinion, the real drawback of playing evil conjurors is the vast, vast amount of knowledge and investment it requires to function really well. There's this huge gap between mediocre evil conjies and godlike evil conjies. There are tons of super-rare, super limited items that boost their skills, tons of powerful prep knowledge reserved almost exclusively for conjies, tons of really powerful or useful charmies that you can utilize if you know what you're doing. Tons of little hints that you need to be aware of that your servitor will give before it decides to tear you a new asshole for ####s and giggles.
Goodies don't really need to think about these things, though they certainly help, but a successful evil conjie needs to know a lot of ####ing #### if he wants to begin and maintain the momentum that make conjies such a wrecking ball.
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Eskelian | Mon 07-Nov-11 12:50 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41269, "RE: No, that's not even close to the real drawback of e..."
In response to Reply #59
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Pretty much this and evil conjurers have probably the toughest time doing anything solo/tanky until near hero of any mage, including transmuters (and maybe, maybe excluding invokers).
Don't get me wrong, evil conjurers can be wrecking balls in some limited circumstances but at the same time, they're the easiest I find to deal with of all the 'power houses'. They're almost never ready to be raided, because of falling timers, which makes them pretty bad at cabal defenses. Once you can repeatedly kill a nightgaunt or at least avoid it or bypass it by wording to another continent - that factor goes away, in which case they are only really dangerous for 20 minutes every 1-1.5 hours.
If anything, things like murderous reputation and other edges are unnecessary and too unbalancing - but at their core evil conjies are no where near RBWs.
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incognito | Mon 07-Nov-11 06:21 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#41275, "Depends on your familiar"
In response to Reply #60
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Imp is a great tank, even the non-questy one. It's even fairly decent before you get the familiar edges. I was able to do all kinds of crazy stuff with my imp, and the quest-imp uplift wasn't really as much of an power-up as I think many people thought.
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AXera | Thu 03-Nov-11 06:52 AM |
Member since 09th Nov 2008
48 posts
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#41116, "I'm with you here"
In response to Reply #31
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And honestly, I'm at that point where I'm happy to see most Nightgaunts, because I usually have a significantly better chance against them than the actual conjurer. I just haven't a clue how you're supposed to deal with the devils and such from 35 til near hero. I'm not sure most characters can. Just in the mid ranks I've seen insane maledicts and unspeaks from spells not even exploiting vulns.
I'm usually crazy enough to fight even when my opponent has the upper hand, but I've taken to completely avoiding any half-competent evil conjurer out there. I don't even think about messing with scion conjurers, and I've only played a few characters ever that I thought even had a remote shot at killing one.
Unfortunately, I don't have anywhere near the patience to actually play a scion conjurer (can't even manage a conjie past the mid 20s before getting sick of it, let alone get one into scion), so I guess I'll never know what exactly they fear, heh.
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laxman | Thu 03-Nov-11 08:53 AM |
Member since 18th Aug 2003
1867 posts
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#41128, "yeah conjies are interesting"
In response to Reply #31
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There is an extremely steep learning curve on non goodie conjies too. Even if someone spells out for you how to manage the servitors it takes a fair amount of practical trial and error before you are able to really leverage them.
you hit the nail on the head though, if a conjie is able to get ready for a specific matchup then they can steam roll almost anyone.
But they do have a lot of points of weakness beyond bash them while they conjure.
Couple of things -Most elementals hate being in water and will rebel if they are in it for long -If a guy has a devil fleeing is a key point in happiness, try to minimize the number of times you flee and if you can get them to flee a couple of times they will likely turn. -Hit archons early in a fight so they never sanc the conjie -If you just want to drive them off kill the elemental -There is an area where if you get the conjie to run through it his servitors will be trapped there -Conjurers can't force their servitors to target a specific person so fight them in a group and rotate out the tank. -Close to the above fight them at an inner guardian. -its tough to hunt them at their conjuring spot but most conjies only use one or two gaunting spots, learn them and ambush them -Knock out the conjie, kill his servitors, then kill him -Conjies are absurdly vulnerable to fiends, more vulnerable then cloud giant villager
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Eskelian | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:26 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41038, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #2
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I just have accepted the fact that Twist and Nep chars are going to beat me so the "Twist doesn't need no stinkin stoneskin" argument isn't a great one IMHO. I guess my point was always that non-buyable preps are bad for the game unless used extremely sparingly. Then again I don't play to be a wrecking ball, I just want to compete/hold my own and RP so the appeal of l33t secret knowledge just isn't there to me.
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:32 AM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41039, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #3
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Wands for mages aside, I don't think there's a lot out there that's genuinely worth having that isn't buyable. Sure, you can get an aura potion and a shield potion as a highish level warrior -- but those things are probably more limited than wide coppers and you aren't going to see them come out a lot in fights. Return/teleport/flight and situationally/depending-on-build enlarge/reduce/protection/stoneskin are more the order of the day, and you can buy almost all of the above in a couple protected cities in a couple minutes.
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Eskelian | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:35 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41040, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #4
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I consider l33t gear to be along the same lines as preps. My RBW has a lot lower dependency on l33tness gearwise than my Maran warrior. He also has less means to hold onto it but yeah. Is it balanced? Probably, but I still know which is more tedious than the other and tedium just ain't my bag baby.
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laxman | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:44 AM |
Member since 18th Aug 2003
1867 posts
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#41041, "you got this backward"
In response to Reply #5
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Your rager warrior is more gear dependant then a non village warrior since you don't have other means to boost your effectiveness (such as allies buffing you, ganking buddies, preps, mercenaries, etc..)
The ragers that are cleaning house are not doing it with low end gear and when you die a lot as most villagers do retaining high end gear can be problematic.
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Eskelian | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:47 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41042, "Not backwards no."
In response to Reply #6
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I'll disagree.
What do you gear for as a warrior?
Saves? Spellbane. Stats? Bloodthirst. Damroll? RBW haz it in droves. HP? Resist.
Are ragers more gear reliant? No, not at all. Do they still scale well with uber gear? Sure - but above and beyond people who need to cover weaknesses without being assisted by cabal powers.
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:12 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41048, "Tangent"
In response to Reply #11
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You know, in the history of the game I don't think I've ever had two hummingbird pendants. I'm not sure I've ever had two humansunders either, though maybe I have.
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Malakhi | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:24 PM |
Member since 12th Dec 2009
367 posts
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#41051, "RE: Another Tangent."
In response to Reply #14
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I've never had a single set of prayer beads . Whenever I am playing a goodie, they are always maxxed out on a goodie I can't kill.
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Graatch | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:53 PM |
Member since 14th Apr 2010
167 posts
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#41056, "I am posting here for the first time in a long time to ..."
In response to Reply #12
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I *ALMOST* had 2 unicorn pendants...
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TMNS | Wed 02-Nov-11 02:43 PM |
Member since 10th Jun 2009
2670 posts
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#41059, "Literally LOL. People are starting to look at me..."
In response to Reply #19
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Twist | Wed 02-Nov-11 07:36 PM |
Member since 23rd Sep 2006
3431 posts
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#41085, "Well played. (nt)"
In response to Reply #19
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Dallevian | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:08 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
1620 posts
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#41093, "that log should be in the academy nt"
In response to Reply #19
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Tesline | Fri 04-Nov-11 02:22 PM |
Member since 25th Jun 2010
582 posts
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#41193, "I dont even know what a unicorn pendant does or is nt"
In response to Reply #19
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nt I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.
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Daevryn | Fri 04-Nov-11 04:44 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41196, "It's the previous version of the hummingbirds (n/t)"
In response to Reply #54
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Doesn't exist anymore and has been replaced by them.
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Tesline | Fri 04-Nov-11 05:05 PM |
Member since 25th Jun 2010
582 posts
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#41199, "Why? nt"
In response to Reply #55
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nt I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.
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Daevryn | Fri 04-Nov-11 07:44 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41203, "RE: Why? nt"
In response to Reply #56
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The area they were in was replaced by another area.
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Onewingedangel | Wed 09-Nov-11 02:28 PM |
Member since 22nd Jul 2009
447 posts
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#41322, "RE: Why? nt"
In response to Reply #56
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They were orginally held by Drizzt Do'Urdern, but in CF's quest for Orginality (which I like, no complaining), they got rid of it. At least, that's if IIRC. But man, would I love to be a sword spec with Twinkle and Icingdeath right now..
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Vortex Magus | Mon 07-Nov-11 08:23 PM |
Member since 20th Apr 2005
400 posts
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#41278, "I'm not surprised. When was your last level 51 goodie w..."
In response to Reply #12
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As I understand it, most of your chars flame out in the mid thirties.
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lasentia | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:26 PM |
Member since 27th Apr 2010
987 posts
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#41052, "Unless you get a rager bard :)"
In response to Reply #6
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They buff villagers to the point of ridiculous at times. Pincersvirf with thirst, stoneskin, resist, anthem. He really is not getting hit overly hard by anything. Throw in gates to make it more insane. But gates is gear dependent too.
I should play one of those. Except I just watched every one of them get bashed into oblivion in every fight and I can't do that to myself.
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TMNS | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:37 PM |
Member since 10th Jun 2009
2670 posts
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#41053, "Yeah, rager bards are permalag meat :)"
In response to Reply #16
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I mean, you can go arial and basically say "My songs are going to be half as good as any other bard, but at least you can't perma-lag me with trip", or you can go human/wood-elf and die horribly to trip at least 10 times.
Bards really do make villagers like 10x more powerful though. It's like having something to prep with!
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:54 AM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41043, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #5
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I'm not really sure what your solution to that is -- killing people and taking their better gear is a cornerstone of the game.
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Eskelian | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:58 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41044, "Outlined it on the other boards."
In response to Reply #8
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Right now the difference between uber-prepping/quest gearing is like:
Me <---------------------------------------------------> Them
Should be more like:
Me <----------> Them
As a repost :
1) Better non-limited items near hero that can be purchased (reduce the playing field difference between the uber-stacked and newly regeared).
To expand here - would be cool to be able to buy something equiv to scorched iron gear @ hero, midnight/white worm gear @ 35 or 40.
2) Less gear reliance in general (nerf prayer beads, nerf heartseeker, limit the amount of game-changing gear).
To expand here - over the years playerbase has declined but ubergear has been expanded so probably needs a general rebalance.
3) Remove all wands except for aura and give shield/barrier to mages as class perks - reduce barrier dam redux by half.
Started this with shield, which is good. Should continue the trend imho.
4) Consolidate preps - remove stoneskin preps, remove shield preps and reduce rager resist from 33% to 25%.
Things like blowfish are just 'another unnecessary thing' IMHO.
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orangepowered | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:47 PM |
Member since 29th Jun 2011
347 posts
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#41055, "Where is the like button? n/t"
In response to Reply #9
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Tesline | Fri 04-Nov-11 05:08 PM |
Member since 25th Jun 2010
582 posts
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#41200, "What do you mean Gamechanging gear?"
In response to Reply #9
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I have never ever ever lost a fight because of gear. i walk around with whatever i find on the ground in the pits of cabals and i get from killing people. Leave the gear how it is and try to work on your pk skills. I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.
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Eskelian | Mon 07-Nov-11 01:16 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41270, "RE: What do you mean Gamechanging gear?"
In response to Reply #57
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>I have never ever ever lost a fight because of gear. i walk >around with whatever i find on the ground in the pits of >cabals and i get from killing people. Leave the gear how it is >and try to work on your pk skills.
I'll cut you some slack because you are new to the game. Why don't you hero a character before commenting on what the gear-to-skill balance looks like?
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Tesline | Wed 09-Nov-11 07:01 AM |
Member since 25th Jun 2010
582 posts
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#41313, "I have heroed a few including..."
In response to Reply #61
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Derialx (elf bard) some random shifters Cinalas svirf pincer spec tribunal. I have had many in hero range such as Goratha Gahsa Vorinath and Roriack. I have been playing two years yes i guess that is new but honestly gear isnt why you get pks it helps but it doesnt make you unstoppable or unreasonablely hard. I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.
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Alston | Wed 09-Nov-11 10:34 AM |
Member since 07th Sep 2011
858 posts
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#41315, "You can't include shifters in this equation (Even with ..."
In response to Reply #66
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Gear can and definitly DOES win fights. 100% absolute fact.
Don't believe me? Rank a warrior with NO gear and see how that works out.
hat is an extreme example perhaps but it is an undeniable counter to what you posted.
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Tesline | Wed 09-Nov-11 11:18 AM |
Member since 25th Jun 2010
582 posts
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#41316, "Im not saying naked thats stupid but"
In response to Reply #67
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I have gone on killing sprees with only fine leather on and a practice weapon. Koil is a great example i got my first four kills with that set. Point being Gear doesnt win fights if you have a normal set of basic clothing it doesnt matter. Oh and an elf bard balances out the shifters I had two of them in hero range. I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.
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Eskelian | Thu 10-Nov-11 12:55 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41332, "Let's agree to disagree."
In response to Reply #68
Edited on Thu 10-Nov-11 12:56 PM
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In over twelve years of playing and probably 1000 kills I can definately say having no-disarm avg 28 weapons and a 70 damroll with divine saves is playing a different game than fine leather and a practice weapon.
And that's not even getting into gear that does awesome stuff like prog heal during combat, prevent you from being paralyzed, auto-flurry, detect hidden, etc.
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N b M | Wed 02-Nov-11 03:01 PM |
Member since 29th Sep 2005
444 posts
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#41062, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #8
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I think one of the big issues with jumping back into the fight now adays is with the "OK" gear.
Sure we have the ragesteel set which isn't exactly bad, not good but not bad. But what we don't have anymore is that "OK" non limited set.
A lot of that stuff that used to be non limited has been either limited or removed based on the item standardization.
Back in the day if you caught a full loot you could just grab two nightwings, two skull rings, a set of spikey green and two nightmare blades or blacksmiths hammers or whatever and you were back in the fight. Take note that this could have been accomplished almost fully within ghost time.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like this isn't quite possible anymore, and ragesteel just isn't quite right for hopping back into contention for pk.
Or maybe I have just become spoiled as a player over the years and can't jump back into the fight without a decent hit/dam...
I don't know, but either way hope this puts a few thoughts out there about making some of those standard items and placing them back in the game.
Thanks.
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Daevryn | Wed 02-Nov-11 03:30 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#41068, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #24
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I think this is worth discussing; take it in that spirit and not the spirit of me trying to bust you down.
>Back in the day if you caught a full loot you could just grab >two nightwings, two skull rings, a set of spikey green and two >nightmare blades or blacksmiths hammers or whatever and you >were back in the fight. Take note that this could have been >accomplished almost fully within ghost time.
What part of that isn't possible anymore? The hammers and nightmare blades are limited now, if I remember correctly, but they're about always in so I'm not sure how that's different?
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N b M | Wed 02-Nov-11 06:36 PM |
Member since 29th Sep 2005
444 posts
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#41082, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #30
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I think getting some decent gear pretty quickly before you unghost is still possible, but I also think that most of that decent gear isn't in a lot of the time or has been removed.
Now this is all likely attributed to my personally evolution as a player and realizing what gear actually is decent and useful and what is just rose tinted from my first few years!
Thanks for the reply.
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Malakhi | Wed 02-Nov-11 01:15 PM |
Member since 12th Dec 2009
367 posts
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#41049, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #5
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No one but TMNS has accused me of being an elite player, but I have had a lot of PK success with various combos - so maybe that will give me the street cred to say the following:
1. I don't see how anyone that's played an ABS invoker, evil assassin, or maybe even a temperance paladin could call a Rager overpowered. Whoever thinks Ragers are OP should play one of these classes - if you have some sense of sportsmanship and/or a desire for challenge, eventually you'll stop hunting Ragers.
2. I think you (eskelian) are seriously overestimating the time involved with ABS and underestimating the time involved with playing a rager. Where prep time takes a serious uptick is for melée classes (non assassins because they have assassinate/trance) stocking up on one shot non-buyable preps. That is almost not worth it for me. But ABS invokers, at least, require relatively minimal boring time getting preps. As for RBWs, there is PLENTY of 15 min interval downtime - only your downtime will be hiding somewhere watching your HP come close to zero from bleeding or immolation or plague or whatever hoping you manage to survive. Maybe that's fun time for you I don't know - but if it is I would imagine getting barrier would be fun time for you, too.
3. The "ragers are OP" post that connected the most to me was Scrimbul's comment that "dying is not a downside for the types of players that want to play RBWs for their PK win potential.". That makes sense for people like Batman who (according to him) couldn't get 60ish PKs unless he were playing a RBW - I can see for players like that who are overjoyed with a 60/80 win/loss ratio would be overjoyed at 60 wins and not care about the 80 losses - they probably don't have much downtime other than ghost time, either, since they aren't barely surviving much - they're just condying at 200 hours. I can see how RBWs are OP from that perspective, but you can't balance RBWs to that perspective because to everyone else in the game, they're a slightly dangerous character more likely to die than to PK you. Basically I don't think you should balance the game for the lowest rung in terms of player ambition and skillset.
4. Keep in mind you are not the only voice on why Ragers are OP - there is a lot of white noise on the issue and your "point" may be shared only by you. My sense is that your point doesn't have anything to do with Ragers and has more to do with "gathering prep downtime." As I mentioned above, I think you are overestimating this time wrt ABS. WRT single shot preps for non-assassin/ranger melée types, I think the only non buyable ones are shield and aura. I'm not sure where the balance falls on making those reductions freely available. At least as it is now you don't need a warrior with shield/aura to compete ... But if they were buyable I think I'd have to chug them down before every fight.
Anyway, those are my thoughts re: the discussion on Dios albeit not strictly to your posts in particular.
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Eskelian | Wed 02-Nov-11 06:15 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2023 posts
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#41078, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #13
Edited on Wed 02-Nov-11 06:20 PM
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2. I think you (eskelian) are seriously overestimating the time involved with ABS and underestimating the time involved with playing a rager. Where prep time takes a serious uptick is for melée classes (non assassins because they have assassinate/trance) stocking up on one shot non-buyable preps. That is almost not worth it for me. But ABS invokers, at least, require relatively minimal boring time getting preps. As for RBWs, there is PLENTY of 15 min interval downtime - only your downtime will be hiding somewhere watching your HP come close to zero from bleeding or immolation or plague or whatever hoping you manage to survive. Maybe that's fun time for you I don't know - but if it is I would imagine getting barrier would be fun time for you, too.
---------------------------
I don't claim to be any good at the game but I'll say that I've done the ABS thing since the changes and done the melee class thing and done the rager thing (not to any notoriety mind you - again I'm not that good at the game) and I will disagree. It's exactly as tedious as I believe it is.
I should also rephrase. I don't really think ragers are OP. It's more of a joke of mine that they are so much fun to play that they are OP, because they're a lot less tedious than some of the alternatives.
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Malakhi | Wed 02-Nov-11 09:17 PM |
Member since 12th Dec 2009
367 posts
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#41096, "RE: Lies."
In response to Reply #37
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What did you find tedious about the ABS thing? Just finding them? Because after they're found I think the investment/reward/risk (especially when people figure out where your sources are) factor is the opposite of tedious.
Also I was doing some thinking re your proposed solution wrt stoneskin and shield ... Don't you think there's something to be gained by allowing a warrior to take on groups?
And also I think you had the most PK successful hunter ranger ever.
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incognito | Mon 07-Nov-11 06:33 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#41277, "Silent Tower changed that though"
In response to Reply #4
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There were some nice preps in there.
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Explosion | Wed 02-Nov-11 10:13 AM |
Member since 06th Jul 2011
381 posts
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#41045, "Noob!"
In response to Reply #2
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Zephon | Wed 02-Nov-11 04:17 PM |
Member since 21st Mar 2007
488 posts
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#41070, ":P"
In response to Reply #2
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I always loved fighting your characters. Especially when we both werent prepped much. Except Hunsobo, that sucked bad.
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