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#39140, "Request for Battle Imms"
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Please give other imms the go ahead to take care of the ludacris applicant problem that has been going on at least the last couple of weeks.
It is really a big turn off then battle has twice the members and the same amount of coverage as scion and applicants online outnumber actual members.
The drillmaster is MIA, all the hero imms seem to have deleted or are MIA, Kastellyn is dormant, and Thror is close to dormant.
K thanks.
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RE: Request for Battle Imms,
HammerSong,
27-Jul-11 07:58 AM, #10
Are you around frequently?,
Homard,
27-Jul-11 09:22 AM, #14
RE: Are you around frequently?,
HammerSong,
27-Jul-11 07:17 PM, #22
Nobody is asking for free induct, just the chance to be...,
Applicant o War (Anonymous),
27-Jul-11 09:59 AM, #16
Wow, kids must have it easy these days.,
Straklaw,
27-Jul-11 02:02 PM, #17
Personal observation,
robdarken_,
27-Jul-11 05:56 PM, #18
RE: Personal observation,
Village App (Anonymous),
27-Jul-11 09:08 PM, #24
You fail to address the fact that there ARE limited res...,
Straklaw,
27-Jul-11 10:26 PM, #25
Since I got brought into the conversation...,
Twist,
28-Jul-11 09:21 AM, #33
When I'm in this boat I usually try to change my play t...,
Lhydia,
27-Jul-11 06:43 PM, #19
RE: Nobody is asking for free induct, just the chance t...,
Malakhi,
28-Jul-11 12:17 AM, #27
RE: Request for Battle Imms,
dalneko,
24-Jul-11 06:48 PM, #1
While we're bitching,
Torak,
25-Jul-11 12:20 AM, #2
I've never run into this.,
Homard,
25-Jul-11 06:04 AM, #3
RE: I've never run into this.,
ORB,
25-Jul-11 11:55 AM, #7
That's pretty uncool,
Homard,
25-Jul-11 06:45 PM, #8
I've run into it a few times too. ,
Vladamir,
27-Jul-11 09:10 AM, #13
Agree and Disagree,
laxman,
25-Jul-11 08:08 AM, #4
I'm also not a fan of this...,
Twist,
25-Jul-11 09:57 AM, #6
RE: While we're bitching,
HammerSong,
27-Jul-11 08:05 AM, #12
*polite cough* (n/t),
N b M,
27-Jul-11 09:42 AM, #15
Isn't that more about your religion and less about the ...,
Lhydia,
27-Jul-11 06:45 PM, #20
RE: Isn't that more about your religion and less about ...,
HammerSong,
27-Jul-11 07:16 PM, #21
RE: Isn't that more about your religion and less about ...,
Lhydia,
27-Jul-11 08:14 PM, #23
RE: Isn't that more about your religion and less about ...,
HammerSong,
27-Jul-11 11:48 PM, #26
I've never had trouble getting inducted into battle.,
Kadsuane,
28-Jul-11 08:01 AM, #28
RE: I've never had trouble getting inducted into battle...,
Daevryn,
28-Jul-11 08:17 AM, #29
Kadsuane,
Kadsuane,
28-Jul-11 08:28 AM, #31
Thror is top notch and flexible,
Village ap of war (Anonymous),
28-Jul-11 08:23 AM, #30
That wasn't a dig on Thror. I agree he is top notch an...,
Kadsuane,
28-Jul-11 08:41 AM, #32
I'd like to say I <3 Thror as well. I just like playing...,
Lhydia,
28-Jul-11 03:58 PM, #34
Why do the imms need to do this?,
Anliltuel (Anonymous),
25-Jul-11 09:28 AM, #5
My last villager,
incognito,
25-Jul-11 06:57 PM, #9
RE: Request for Battle Imms,
HammerSong,
27-Jul-11 08:01 AM, #11
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Homard | Wed 27-Jul-11 09:22 AM |
Member since 10th Apr 2010
959 posts
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#39174, "Are you around frequently?"
In response to Reply #10
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I have an idea for a role that would hopefully lead to following Thror.
I also take very much to heart the words that Puldun once spoke to Homard regarding these things. To paraphrase, "Is easy to catch the eye of a God, hard to catch him's mouth."
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#39176, "Nobody is asking for free induct, just the chance to be..."
In response to Reply #10
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>There isn't a ludacris applicant problem. There is an >instant gratification problem.
I can only speak for the times I play, when you have a ratio of 2.5 applicants per inducted member that fits my definition of an applicant problem and has nothing to do with gratification. This is not scion. But that just highlights the general flaw in the system that has existed forever. There are times when it isn't an issue (lots of active admins) and times when it is an issue (not much admin coverage). Right now we are in a time where there is a lack of admin coverage, please take action to resolve it or make an argument why people who don't share playtime with you deserve less then people who do.
>Villagers are expected to prove they are worthwhile applicants >and it takes more than bashing down that one mage that doesn't >know how to use his invisibility spell yet.
This point has nothing to do with quality of applicant it has to do with shortage/availability of people to pass judgement on quality.
>There are over 20 Villagers in Battle. Each time I log in, I >address applicants and make them (here's the catch word of the >day) "prove" they are worth joining the Village.
The current number of villagers and their cabal stats on presence/coverage/taking/retrieving suggests that they are not all that active, which kind of counterdicts your point below about the primary criteria for joining the village being that you will be active (purge time?).
>Proving means that these villagers are going to play out their >character. If you can't work at being a patient and tried >applicant, you won't be a suitable BattleRager.
This request has absolutly nothing to do with achieving the needs to become a villager and everything to do with the lack of availability of the people who review your case and make a decision.
What is patient enough to get you to take action? Being an app for 20, 30, 40 hours? Seeking admins for 1,2,3 RL weeks? Sending up 20,30,50 prays without responde? Losing 5,8, or 9 con due to cabal restrictions without cabal powers? Have you told other imms that when any of these thresholds have been met its ok for them to step in and do an intervie/induct?
>What's worthwhile is difficult to achieve. It won't be handed >to you.
Not asking for anything to be handed to me/us except the opportunity to be judged, an opportunity that is tied to administrative coverage and as the only active Battle imm it is your responsability to administrate that administration.
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#39185, "RE: Personal observation"
In response to Reply #18
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Not all of the issues I listed are things I am personally experiencing. They are general issues that apps experience (long hours, long RL time frames, downsides of cabal restrictions without the powers designed to compensate for them).
The point is that being qualified is meaningless without someone to judge it.
I work in a project management division so on a regular basis I have to explain to people that they have to deal with ####ty situations for long periods of time before we can address their issues. The reason behind this is that we have limited resources and we have to make our decisions for selecting projects based on what will help the most people at any given time, which leaves certain groups out in the cold. I get that with limited resources you need to prioritize.
The issue in CF land, and it occurs for every cabal/religion, is that there are periods where the dedicated administrators are not able to support the needs of all of those dependant on them. There are several other people who could support those needs but they cannot or will not because the people in charge are not allowing them. The barrier to satisfying people is as simple as giving a nod. When the barrier is that simple to overcome it is downright silly to not do it. It is retarded to not create standards to deal with these issues on an ongoing basis. It becomes super retarded when you look at it this way, the people who would be covering are other imms, most imms at this point have been leaders of several cabals. For instance twist would be just fine interviewing battle apps because he has been a battle leader many times. That is but one instance but the imms have been around long enough that it is reasonable to entrust them all with such a low level decision making task such as cabal induction.
As administrators imms should be asking the question, is having direct control of this more important then the enjoyment of the playerbase. When it comes to induction for non scion/herald the choice should be obvious and clear, share responsibility.
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Straklaw | Wed 27-Jul-11 10:26 PM |
Member since 10th Mar 2003
1014 posts
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#39186, "You fail to address the fact that there ARE limited res..."
In response to Reply #24
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Twist OKing Battle apps for example. Twist already runs *TWO* religions, oversees Nexus and in part Empire. Not to mention raising a family, and doing his RL job. Just becaue he CAN play a BattleRager character (and do it well), doesn't mean he should add that to his plate of CF duties. Firstly, by definition it means he would be spending less time watching those two cabals. Empire in particular is one that players OFTEN complain about people breaking the rules of Imperial Law, and it's something that often only can be caught be an Immortal keeping tabs on them as well. Secondly, even if he's just giving a nod and tabs in, then you're diluting the BattleRager experience. You've got someone who's only been rubber-stamped in.
While it's not perfect, I firmly believe that even with these difficulties, you're assuming there's more available than there might be. As another player mentioned...I've often taken the steps to change my playtime to meet up with said inductee. At the very least, have you made the simple attempt of leaving a NOTE for any of these inductee people you say you can't reach? They're the ones in charge, it's not outrageous to expect those who *want something from them* to take the little bit of extra effort to meet them. There's a point with some leaders where you just HAVE to deal with possible excessive expectations (recs if there just AREN'T ragers to deal with), but I've also had no problems with SOMEONE finding me if I plug away at it.
As an aside, I've already been tempted to play a Rager next. I play horrible hours, and am still willing to bet I could get inducted within a reasonable timeframe. I might be convinced to roll one up.
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Lhydia | Wed 27-Jul-11 06:43 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2382 posts
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#39180, "When I'm in this boat I usually try to change my play t..."
In response to Reply #16
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Malakhi | Thu 28-Jul-11 12:17 AM |
Member since 12th Dec 2009
367 posts
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#39188, "RE: Nobody is asking for free induct, just the chance t..."
In response to Reply #16
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>What is patient enough to get you to take action? Being an >app for 20, 30, 40 hours? Seeking admins for 1,2,3 RL weeks? >Sending up 20,30,50 prays without responde? Losing 5,8, or 9 >con due to cabal restrictions without cabal powers? Have you >told other imms that when any of these thresholds have been >met its ok for them to step in and do an intervie/induct? > >
Honestly, I think I would be surprised if an applicant had 15 mage PKs and 40 hours as a app, but was not inducted or at least closely observed. There are certain objective things you can do as an app to bump yourself up the priority list. Lots of mage PKs is a good one. Even 10 would make you stand out. The same thing goes for Fortress. A hefty part of the idea behind Battle is kinda sorta maybe killing mages.
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dalneko | Sun 24-Jul-11 06:48 PM |
Member since 28th Feb 2006
268 posts
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#39141, "RE: Request for Battle Imms"
In response to Reply #0
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They also need to do something about that whole 'Get approval from 2 other Villagers' thing. I mean really, how is an applicant going to know who is a villager if they're not titled as such? Nevermind for the applicants who aren't on the same time as already inducted villagers in the first place.
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Torak | Mon 25-Jul-11 12:20 AM |
Member since 15th Feb 2007
1216 posts
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#39142, "While we're bitching"
In response to Reply #1
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Seriously, the whole "hey, what's that obscure fact that you'll only know by reading the stories in the library?" test period really needs to go away. Barbarians need to know their history, sure, but come on. No other cabal comes anywhere close to this requirement and you're asking barbarian warriors to go read in a library.
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Homard | Mon 25-Jul-11 06:04 AM |
Member since 10th Apr 2010
959 posts
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#39143, "I've never run into this."
In response to Reply #2
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I've played six Villagers over the past few years and I've never been asked anything obscure during an induction (and I've been inducted by Malakhi, Woldrun, Knacnar, and one of Bork's morts.) Granted, sometimes while searching out a recommendation the Villager interviewing has asked some questions about history, but nothing that wouldn't be common knowledge for a Theran, especially one who is seeking to join the Village.
Is this really that much of an issue. Are some players demanding that applicants know what kind of car Boltthrower drove? Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.
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ORB | Mon 25-Jul-11 11:55 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
993 posts
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#39149, "RE: I've never run into this."
In response to Reply #3
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Yeah I've been asked to name 5 villagers off the pillar. I've been asked about how the giant came to the village. I've been asked what the tablet stuff. All things that have more to do with making sure you've played lots of villagers before then what you are doing now. That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.
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Homard | Mon 25-Jul-11 06:45 PM |
Member since 10th Apr 2010
959 posts
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#39152, "That's pretty uncool"
In response to Reply #7
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I think that Battle is the best way for a new player to learn the game, and having to prove that you've played a Villager before screws up my whole notion.
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laxman | Mon 25-Jul-11 08:08 AM |
Member since 18th Aug 2003
1867 posts
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#39145, "Agree and Disagree"
In response to Reply #2
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I agree that quizing them on some book in a library seems very counter-barbarian.
The whole history thing though I believe is vital to what makes the village different from other cabals. I mean the village cares about its legacy and the pillar is a testament to that (sure other cabals have copied but they just don't have the same feel). The village also is very pride oriented which fits in well with the whole knowing your past type deal.
Personally I always play it off as stories handed down around a campfire as opposed to read te book, most vets know the stories inside and out, or at least the major details (who and why), as a village noob... well yeah you might need to take 5 minutes to read them or ask someone else.
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N b M | Wed 27-Jul-11 09:42 AM |
Member since 29th Sep 2005
444 posts
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#39175, "*polite cough* (n/t)"
In response to Reply #12
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Kadsuane | Thu 28-Jul-11 08:01 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
169 posts
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#39189, "I've never had trouble getting inducted into battle."
In response to Reply #26
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But this is classic, you can do it my way or go #### yourself. Probably not the best stance to take with a diminished player base. Just saying.
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Daevryn | Thu 28-Jul-11 08:17 AM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#39190, "RE: I've never had trouble getting inducted into battle..."
In response to Reply #28
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How do you get that out of a post that's three sentences long when one of those sentences is essentially "You have other options besides doing it my way?"
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Kadsuane | Thu 28-Jul-11 08:28 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
169 posts
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#39193, "Kadsuane"
In response to Reply #29
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You have people complaining about not seeing the leadership often enough. You have people complaining that the antiquated interview format is unforgiving for less experienced players. And you have the sole administrator of the cabal saying you have other options. Yeah that may have been a three sentence long response, but the thread was a lot longer than that. Just like you are probably going to respond to 2 words in this post as you normally do.
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#39191, "Thror is top notch and flexible"
In response to Reply #28
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If you get Thror or really any of the imms conducting your interview you don't need to worry about them looking for pigeon holed definitions. As long as you have a definition and its not completly and totally counter to the general principles of the idea you will be fine.
Mortal leaders on the other hand... well some will do it and some won't. If they are being pig headed there is always the imms that can step in and build you a hut.
I don't know about you but for myself and mostly everyone I know OOC getting an ineriew = getting inducted for any cabal except scion. The challenge is in getting the interview, which it should be. But there are times when those challenges have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with availability. After 15 years of CF this issue has not really been addressed well for any cabal except empire (thanks zulg for automation)
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Kadsuane | Thu 28-Jul-11 08:41 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
169 posts
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#39194, "That wasn't a dig on Thror. I agree he is top notch an..."
In response to Reply #30
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Just his particular stance in this case.
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Lhydia | Thu 28-Jul-11 03:58 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2382 posts
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#39198, "I'd like to say I <3 Thror as well. I just like playing..."
In response to Reply #32
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#39147, "Why do the imms need to do this?"
In response to Reply #1
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I can't speak for the Battle IMMs on this, but I've had at least one villager who went directly to the Commander or Drillmaster and got inducted. These requirements were set by a mortal (Abernyte) and became common practice. They are, however, by no means a requirement that every Commander must follow.
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incognito | Mon 25-Jul-11 06:57 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#39153, "My last villager"
In response to Reply #5
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Got inducted without any recommendations that I know of (never asked for any), and without asking the commander for induction. He just plugged away and eventually got called to the village and interviewed by the commander.
But then, I quite enjoyed playing as an app.
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