Both get parry/dodge/shield block.

I don't understand why human thief with 23 dex tanks so much worse than a human assassin with 23 dex. Sooo....

Does class somehow play into the effectiveness of one or more of these skills?

Granted the thief I stopped playing at 20/21, so he didn't have shield block for all that long, but the assassin is only at around 80% shield block anyway.

The fact that if you compare an assassin and a thief at level 25, the assassin can drop dex/str through caltraps and kotegaeshi which is a huge bit of damage/more dodging in pk, not so much for NPC's but it still helps.

Then you can never overlook that assassin's are binding wounds every two-three hours so they seem like they aren't hurt for much longer while thieves have no built in hp regaining skills.

If you think it's not these things and you actually just got hit way more, you just gotta realize mechanically it's not true and perhaps you're just remembering a bad fight or etc.

It sounds like he's talking about general melee hit avoidance. Like if thief and assassin attacked identical mobs and entered no commands (and the mob entered no commands).

Between a thief and assassin with identical dex, weight and dodge skill, is the assassin going to dodge more than the thief?

Between a thief and assassin with identical strength, dex, weight, primary weapon and primary weapon skill, fighting an opponent wielding that same weapon type, is the assassin going to parry more than the thief?

I think that's the meat of his question.

>Between a thief and assassin with identical dex, weight and
>dodge skill, is the assassin going to dodge more than the
>thief?
>
>Between a thief and assassin with identical strength, dex,
>weight, primary weapon and primary weapon skill, fighting an
>opponent wielding that same weapon type, is the assassin going
>to parry more than the thief?

No and no.

Will and arial assassin and arial invoker parry the same?

Given equal relevant weapon skills, etc., yes.

There's no directly class-based component to parry or dodge.

I believe you because I wouldn't think there'd be any reason to change the code to include class distinction. A class has its skills for a reason, so why tweak balance further? However, I do agree with the sentiment that it *seems* like there is a difference.

So, while we're on the subject a couple of questions which may have been asked before:

- Is a mob with a non-hand damage type, while not physically wielding anything, still considered wielding fists for purposes of parry/dodge/shield block?

- If the answer to above is no, would that affect being hit more as a thief vs. an assassin (or any other class)?

Thanks.

I think Trip may be on to something in that MAYBE bindwounds is what is making the difference seem so large, but I did use the exact same mob and I honestly don't have to use bind wounds more than once every couple fights. Also, I did solo rank the assassin mostly so he may just have that much better parry/dodge. Finally, maybe the thief was carrying more weight from wanting to sell crap.

All that combined probably makes up for the difference in perceived crappiness of melee defences for one and not the other.

I'd like to test it again, but I deleted the thief when I kept getting trounced by mobs that my assassin can easily handle. Plus, the thief was a while ago.