Over the Summer I will be performing some major updating to the Nine Circles. If you're a player that has explored there and think you may have encountered a bug of some kind, feel free to e-mail me at scarabaeus at carrionfields.com with the details (DO NOT POST THEM HERE). I will neither confirm nor deny anything, but that will help me with preparing a "to do" list. Thanks!

Someone mentioned the area types for rangers, just thought I'd toss out graveyard... To my knowledge there aren't any. Not that mummy/lich needs a lot more love, but it seems odd to me that there isn't at least one.

If you're taking suggestions, please toss in some "good but not uber" gear down there comparable to what you might find in non-hell hero areas so that those of us who are just happy to be getting led around by more skilled players will be more likely to get something shiny even if it doesn't have super secret powers or uber-stats. A lot of trips kind of wind up being "run down and get this one or two items for the cabal leader" and mostly everyone else gets nada.

As for posters thinking you need a huge group. I've been down to I want to say the 6th circle with only a group of 3. Myself as a transmuter, a mummy, and a... bard I think. Could've gotten further but the mummy fell into a death trap. Oh well. Glad to see you back and thanks for your time.

that will just lure me back. I can't afford that right now!!!

Seriously, good news though.

Maybe take a look at the terrain types in hell. Since the ranger purge, desert, forest, mariner and caverndweller rangers could have a place in hell trips. But alas, even in the forest, desert, river rooms...its all just flagged civilized. Not sure how much work it would all take, but I would love to see more "wilderness" rooms where appropriate in the form of caves, deserts, etc.

Is there any way you could add a way for good-aligns to get into the Second Circle without having to 'betray their alignment'? Something ridiculously hard, obviously, but at least something, so the people who stick to their guns with their original goodie roles can actually explore Inferno?

Yes, that is part of the plan.

This is awesome to hear, cant wait to see it finished. This is the sort of thing that will make me return to the game for exploration purposes. The inferno has always been sort of a "final frontier" for me that I never got to properly explore.

Just for some notes....

- Did you get my email awhile back listing a few bugs?
- Making a way for goodies to get through that's not...a cardinal sin...would be awesome (haven't seen a Fortress "Let's kill Archdevils!" group really since Knights)
- Awesome news...but figures, after I've already stopped playing

My CF e-mail box was overstuffed, so I didn't get a list. If you can re-send it, that would be great.

There will be at least one alternate path down, possibly more than one.

Just adding observation XP will probably take me a week.

That is....just awesome. Simply awesome.

Thanks again for your rededication of time.

I'd send you some $!!!!

Hmm, I could set up a tequila and pizza PayPal fund to fuel the late-night coding efforts...

In the meantime, we'll have to settle for progs trickling into HM. Two new (class specific) mini-quests just went in, four more in the wings, and something else I can't talk about, but will cause Norington to do a little dance.

*swoon*

Prepare to replace the floor.

Big S,

Now that you are redoing aspects of hell I was wondering if you were going to do itin such a way that it is possible to explore without needing a 1234435456 man group and a solid 24 hour single time chunk. Those are obviously exagerrations but I have never been thru hell mostly because of those. The best thing about the sient tower was even though you might not neccesarily be able to accomplish a lot solo (well you could if you knew exactly how) you could at leat go there and poke around a bunch to find that kind of stuff. The issue with hell is you need so many resources just to go poke around at all.

The other problem is that I don't think hell was ever solved by PC's, my understanding of the history is that a group of immortals went through and that knowledge was passed on mostly thru people we as a community view as cheaters and the knowledge was passed on primarily through creating ooc contacts with these cheaters to exchange information.

From everything I can tell from Hell you did a fantastic job of making it a cool area and I know not all areas cater to all kinds of players but it would just be cool if moving around hell was more doable with much smaller groups and time frames even if you can't neccesarily get any shinies in the process.

You are making alot of assumptions here, alot. Have you even tried exploring it with a small group? It's very doable up to a certain depth, taking down Arch-Devils is another story.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

when you say doable up to a certain death are you accepting the fact that in order to leave you need to sacrifice a bit of con? I know for a fact its mechanically impossible to get to the end solo and I was under the impression there was no way out except the exit after you passed the mino raper.

Yeah it's Hell not care bear hug land.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I'm thinking you could do it with the following:

minotaur warrior (preferably swords, preferably emperor)
bard or healer
invoker
{insert random character here}

Whichever you lack (bard or healer) might be nice to have as the fourth character, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Muter could work there as well AFAIK. Without healer you'd just need to carry with you the means to cure poison and disease. Or only disease if you're not going to be popping fillets left and right.

Drow spear/dagger, empire healer, and comedy bard.

Took an eternity, since we had no damage, and really ####ty mob placements, but it was super super safe.

We died to Baalzebub like tards due to a certain thing I think is a bug, but we could have gotten to satan with no problem at all.

You need less than you think.

I only died to styx devils because I ran out of enlarge roots and couldn't kill the other things around them fast enough. Theoretically I believe Thrunna could have gotten to Dis solo. Again... frick'n orc.

being able to heal thousands of extra HP is a pretty significant bug when it comes to exploring.

So that. Also, I didn't really even stock up on blood, just the 5 or so skins Thrunna routinely carried.

nt

Mentioned invoker because of a certain set of mobs that do heavy area-based elemental attacks. Maybe it's reasonable to kill them w/o invoker shields, but it seems like it would be way, way harder.

nt

Minotaurs would be insane hell tanks. But I guess thats the balance of it.

Ah, but we have a Minotaur shaman who has gone all the way. Hmm!

I think peoples own assumptions of hell actually defer them from trying most times. Remember, half of the rumors you hear in cf are made up by people that don't know themselves. If more people would get together, and say "Alright, this is happening, lets see where this goes", they would be pretty surprised with their success. No risk, no reward baby.

Minos cant do most verbally quests that require a verbal que. When this was brought up to the staff they said it was by design. Now here we have the questiest area in the game where mino speech works.

The you in this case was meant for the staff in general, not you personally.

Granted, there are some I haven't managed either.

Not true; there is absolutely nothing special about the Inferno coding, nor is it inconsistent. But, I won't say anything beyond that.

First, I think you have a misunderstanding of what is required to enter and scout around Hell. It is not uncommon to see 1-3 players wandering down at least to a certain point. And while those players aren't conquering all they can see, they can certainly benefit from those trips.

Second, part of the design goal was to force players to work together. It has been interesting to see how difficult that really is to accomplish. Especially in the infancy of the area(s), the most common problem for groups was self-destruction. So half the battle with a larger group is exercising real leadership skills in keeping everyone together. That will rate differently on different people's fun sticks, but I think anyone successfully keeping a large group functioning through a Hell trip has really accomplished something.

So, while a solo adventurer can currently do some exploring, I don't see it as a goal to re-design the area to accommodate parties of one.

thanks for the info.

>So, while a solo adventurer can currently do some exploring, I
>don't see it as a goal to re-design the area to accommodate
>parties of one.

Now if the group could do it in a shorter time, or take "shortcuts" down to other circles...let's say assuming they've all been there or accomplished some previous goal, it'd make it more doable for those of us who don't have huge time spans anymore because of families/jobs.

With ya on it not being accommodating for solo play though.

i just happened to be cruising the forums and noted your post. It is very nice to see you back. I would certainly love it if you would make it a little more feasible to explore the lower levels. That may have already changed since I haven't played in a couple of years but if it has not please do so. I never really got to explore past Dis as much as I wanted because it would always take hours upon hours just to get there.

Hopefully the giant wall of text doesn't scare you

I've tried your carrionfields email before and I think it was broken or something, but everything I have found/noticed is sent.

Good luck with your anti-harrowing, leave me a nasty surprise down there while you're at it

Keep on keeping on bone-man.

I actually have a nice LONG email for you, that ive accumulated over a few years. There are a couple places I havent been yet, but actually probably very little I have not seen truthfully.

Ill get it to you asap

I don't know if I should be encouraged or disheartened. :p

The mere fact that its been 15 years (or close to it) and nobodys even seen most of it is AWESOME. I doubt many muds if any can ever boast an area like that? Even with some of the largest/most extreme groups, I have been sent back to the surface as a ghost with a tearful face, over and over and over..

Personally I think its the coolest, most well written, DEVIOUS area I've ever been to. Extreme props and respect in that regard. Like i said, i've dumped a few years into your area and the more I see, the more I get the feeling I havent TRULY scratched the surface.

That and the fact that it scares and excites the hell out of me (pun intended) that my favorite area is gonna get a tune up/modification.

It is literally and truly my favorite part of cf.

nt

If something appears unfinished, shoot me an e-mail about it. Something could have gotten lost in the shuffle.