I wanted to start a discussion about this Empire power. What is everyone's opinions on it in regards to game balance?

I don't know everything there is to know about it. I've never played an imperial healer, but, this is what I do know about it (please correct me if I am wrong or add info as needed).
1. It lasts about 5 hours
2. It's makes sanctuary more powerful
3. Can be communed on anyone by a healer, player or mob. Shaman's can only commune on themselves.
4. Must be 40th level Imperial Priest to use it

What are the mana costs?
Are there any drawbacks to this power?

In my opinion I think more should be done to encourage power struggles in this game between opposing factions. I think this power does the opposite. Isn't what healers can do for support enough as it is? They already make fights a challenge when one opposes you with what they have to offer. Add that to a cabal that is ganky to begin with, a challenge to re-raid because of Centurions and you already have a powerful mix. I think adding the Black Shroud on top of it is overkill.

From what I witness when a black shroud capable healer is around the most common tactics applied by enemies are to a) avoid imperials as long as possible or b) log out and wait until later. How is that good for the game?

I ask myself as I write this, what if they removed black shroud, how would that change things? I actually think it wouldn't change a whole lot. Imperial ganks will still kick ass with the Imperial healer. However, I do think that it might encourage more retrieval attempts and it might encourage more fighting when you have a small number of imperials on, like say a healer and one or two others.

Now, I'm not saying remove it totally from the game. Why can't it have some drawbacks or why can't it only be used on the healer as with the shaman? Maybe make it non usable on mobs and people outside of pk range.

I'm just trying to start a discussion about it. I'm sure there have been others in the past. Are there others that feel the same way? Maybe the playerbase overall has no issue with this power. I can live with this power being in the game. I'm not going to quit CF over it or anything, I'll just log off when an Imperial Healer logs in ;P.

Retrieving against a cabal with a healer is hard.

You're right. It is. Empire has dealt with this forever against the Fortress. I don't see this as a problem. They are a utility class, and this is one place their utility excels.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

To play devil's advocate, black channel and black shroud may more than make up for the inherent disadvantage to a healer being evil. So killing the Vanquisher when she's defended by a high-tier Empire healer may actually be harder than killing the Tarabal when he's defended by an Acolyte healer.

This doesn't even take into account centurions, which give the Empire healer more time to arrive before the attackers kill the outer.

Really, it all comes down to competancy.

You don't see a lot of ####ty healers progress in Empire (mine notwithstanding) whereas there is often 2 to 5 n00b healers in Fortress over the course of a couple months.

Basically, remember trying to retrieve from Fortress when Lauraine was around? Or kill someone as a lowbie? I do. It was horrible and pointless.

PS For TJ Huron, Black Shroud isn't the best skill as a healer in Empire. It's black channel dude. LOWER MANA COSTS? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHT?

Kruizinel is a shining example of this...I am a pretty bad player, and a relative newbie.

I got high priest without being empowered past I think it was lvl 39 (no dark pact or rejuv)

Just saying that ####ty empire healers do happen

Nuff said.

I ####ing BLEW. Still though, I was better than MANY Fort healers I've seen.

Yeah. I'd have to crunch the numbers, but I don't see it as a given that fort healers are better at healing.

Let's say shroud turns 50% sanc into 60% sanc and that channel reduces mana costs by 10% (that's a low ball estimate).

Now, suppose I hit the vanquisher for what would normally be 100 hp damage. This gets turned into 40 hp damage by virtue of black shroud. That's 20% of a rejuvenate, which already costs Empire healer 90% of what a normal rejuvenate would cost someone w/o black channel. So we're looking at 18% of the mana cost of a non-channel rejuvenate in order to fully counteract that melee hit.

Now consider fort healer. He has to put in 25% the cost of a "normal rejuvenate" to counteract that same melee hit. That's a 38% higher mana cost to achieve the same amount of healing.

I know evil healers have a healing penalty compared to goodies, but is it big enough to make up for the above gap? I kind of doubt it.

Forgot favor of the sun. Maybe Fort guy has more healing firepower after all.

d

Assuming non-dark pact etc.

And obviously, we are not talking about the healer healing himself.

Goodie heals-100 hp
nuetral heals-75 or 80
evil heals 60 or 66, dont remember exactly which

could be wrong, but thats what I remember.

Double it for rejuv. As a scion healer I really felt the wrath of the healing nuke stick.

You also may be forgetting a second relevant Acolyte power that I can't currently remember the name of.

For this particular application (if not every application) it's pretty comparable to Black Channel.

Level(0) 'SPIRITUAL LINK'
Syntax: Automatic

Acolytes of the Golden Sun are closely in touch with their spiritual side.
This link provides them the ability to commune protective and healing
supplications and Fortress powers at reduced mental cost.

See also: FORTRESS OF LIGHT, ACOLYTES OF THE GOLDEN SUN

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

The problem with that is that skilled healers tend to play evil. It is rarer to find someone like Lauraine because effective goodies are regularly criticised for being eq-hoarders or powergamers.

I were playing a Fort character I'd much rather have Lauraine than have the most virtuous, self-sacrificing but incompetent Fort Healer. FWIW I didn't think Lauraine had bad RP at all - just quoting what some people said.

I don't know what the IMM stance is on goodies. If some IMM could categorically state that you can be decked and be an acolyte and not have to die because your allies are suicidal, that would be great. Then everytime a hue and cry arises in the other forum about so-and-so goodie who doesn't take risks, who hoards eq, etc, they can be shot down with the official argument.

>I don't know what the IMM stance is on goodies. If some IMM
>could categorically state that you can be decked and be an
>acolyte and not have to die because your allies are suicidal,
>that would be great.

I think that an acolyte is obligated to go die because of suicidal allies, if he can probably save one ore more in the process. Other goodie healers aren't quite so obligated.

.

As a player you have to have a certain amount of forebearance, patience and empathy for idiot newbs if you're going to be an Acolyte. "You're too stupid I'm not sticking my neck out for you" is not a good attitude for an Acolyte to have. In my opinion.

That's a common misconception. Also, it's better to prevent deaths, like telling people to:

- never just rush into battle
- never allow yourself to get too hurt, if you can help it
- always have a teleport potion ready

The cabal doesn't gain anything by sacrificing an Acolyte needlessly.

I agree that Jharazoul is a game-changer when it comes to cabal dynamics. However, I think this would be true even without black shroud. As far as I understand it, shroud just makes sanctuary slightly better. So maybe it's 60% damage reduction instead of 50%.

What makes "Drow High Priest" so nasty is the crazy mana regen, especially if he's willing to slow himself. Plus black channel reduces the cost of his supplications. The amount he can heal per hour, coupled with the black sanc, is what makes it nigh-impossible for a single mid-ranked character to retrieve. Like I said before, I think this would be the case even without black shroud.

That's kind of the point I was trying to get at. As I mentioned I suspect as well not a whole lot would change without it, so why is it necessary? What benefit is it bringing the game? All it does is make something that is already strong/challenging even better.

I have no idea how much better it makes sanctuary from a number stand point either. For me, it seems like where you might hit devastates and decimates on regular sanc you now hit injures and mauls. It still adds up quick.

be able to retrieve as a mid-level character, especially a Villager, when a high priest healer is defending. If that is what you're complaining about, tough. Bring a friend and you'll be able to kill the vanquisher.

And if you're thinking of fighting black aura hero level cents...just don't. Pay the fools and walk through or go do something else. Avoid the almost deathtrap.

This post isn't intended to be a complaint. It's intended to start a discussion about the cabal power, black shroud. As part of that discussion I included my stance on the power, which I feel it is not necessary. I mentioned that without black shroud retrieval attempts may be not so impossible, but, it isn't what I was trying to focus on. There are other aspects of the game the skill effects.

It's just my personal opinion that this power strongly reduces the competitive aspect of the game. Even your response is "go do something else. Avoid the deathtrap". I wanted to hear everyone's opinion on it.