Make it have a cooldown or a diminsional travel protection (like sleep protection) please.

Doesn't seem necessary to me.

You get a saving throw against gate. Gate isn't a small amount of mana.

Beyond that, there are all kinds of fun traps you can set up for someone who will predictably gate to you, and there are all kinds of places you simply can't gate.

You asked me to respond, so I will.

My opinion is that gate is fine. Yes, it was annoying for me, but whatever, it's not really worse than any of the other big skills. Gate is a healer's only PK-oriented ability. When you consider it with the hunt, assassinate, and other strong, signature powers I don't think it's unreasonable. There are ways to work around it, and ultimately it's only a healer.

Like everything else, in the hands of an elite player it's a pain in the ass. The fact is that if an elite player is also a douchebag they can use their superiority to ruin the fun of a mediocre player if that's what they want to do. There's no way to prevent that without ruining the game. And most elite players aren't douchebags to the point of abusing it to persecute people much less skilled than them.

I think gate is balanced.

I was just going to leave this be, as everyone seemed to think I was out of bounds on my thoughts, but after reading some posts on the Battlefield, it seems I wasn't alone in my thoughts.

Abilities that can be used to find, track, get to/from players.

Word of Recall - Obviously only takes a person to a singular location, hence not very pk oriented.

Teleport - Takes a person to an unknown, potentially dangerous location, not very pk oriented.

Summon - Has to be in the same area as the same player, allows opponent time to prepare, react.

Tesseract - Can kill the unwary conjurer, same continent requirement, long cooldown.

Clairaudience/voyance - VERY dangerous to the conjurer, semi-limited information, still has to travel to the opponent.

Find Mark/Track - Limited information from these, still have to hunt down the prey.

Flyto/Murder - Flying forms come the closest, though they still have to be looking around, being near the area, and cannot call for friends constantly. They are also more vulnerable to being killed than the healer.

Gate - Can be cast nonstop, from any continent. Healer is nearly immune to most anything, especially if they are smart, and so should be able to escape in most situations. Can quickly find and/or engage and harry opponent like no other class. Relaying location to friendly forces, consistently, even when target moves.

What I propose:

Gate to trusting (trustgroup, trustcabal, trustall) stays exactly the same. Allows a healer to be just what a healer is, a healer.

PK Gate option A:
Gate to PK not trusting, a gate cooldown goes into effect on the healer for PK oriented gating. Perhaps somewhere between 5 to 10 hours.

PK Gate option B:
Gate to pk not trusting, a gate transportation protection, similar to sleep protection, is placed on the target. Again perhaps 5 to 10 hours. This would allow the healer to still gate to other PK targets, just not one they gated to recently.

Again, gate would function NORMALLY for trusting people. This way they cannot be a continuous scout or pouncing healer. This would bring the ability in-line with all the other classes similar abilities. Healers weren't made to be tiger pouncers or scouts, why should they get the most powerful, easiest to use, and safest ability to do so?

I hope this clarifies my thoughts on the issue.

All the skills you listed are balanced by certain drawbacks, yes. The gate commune is balanced by the fact that the only class in the game with the skill has almost no offensive capability whatsoever. They don't have melee skills, they don't have burst damage, they don't have lag, they can't maladict - at most they have prog gear. It's sort of like a giant practice dummy appearing in front of you again and again.

As has been previously mentioned, there are lots of ways to deal with that gating healer - just like there are ways to deal with any number of skills in the game that can be annoying. (Sleep, cleave, assassinate, spinebreaker, out of range faerie fog, steal, flyto, deathblow etc.)

Edited because I cants teh typos.

Thanks for not reading!

We are all reading just fine. You seem to be the one who isn't taking the friendly advice and explanations into consideration.

Moving on!

I am not interested in "how should I deal with this" as that is NOT what this topic is about. You keep trying to derail it and I don't like that. My topic is about bringing the class in-line with the other classes and abilities. Other classes and abilities of similar nature HAVE been changed over the years. Read the idea I put forth and agree or disagree. That's fine. But stop attempting to derail the topic.

We are explaining why we, and probably the imms/imps who haven't interjected, DISAGREE with your suggestion.

You, the group of you with answers, advice that you should stand next to a guard, stand next to a death trap, stand next to an assassin, or a group of ragers who don't like the healer. These are examples of advice on how to deal with it ingame, not on thoughts on the gameplay mechanics. It IS derailing the topic. The topic is about the mechanics of the class versus the mechanics of the others classes, especially based on the spirit of the class.

I'm not trying to change the world, I 'm not trying to break the class, the change would be EXTREMELY minor. I don't see why you are so vehemently attempting to defend from the topic, unless you happen to be benefiting from spamming gate on people. Your very first post was an attempt to make it sound like I was crying about being some newb who can't handle a healer in game. You wanted to discredit me from the start for some reason. I don't know why.

For example, if you hit the healer, I think they then can't gate across continents for a bit.

Conjie tess timer isn't that long. Granted it HAS a timer, but it is fairly short these days. Talking a handful of hours or less.

Also, you do still have the option of going underwater, or somewhere hostile to them (e.g. Hamsah gateguards if they are wanted).

I used to gate to people with an ap of mine on occasion, and it isn't always a good idea. One time I gated to some dude and he was chatting with a group of ragers. I didn't have a lot of protections up because I wouldn't have needed them against some guys.

Gating is not risk free.

-For example, if you hit the healer, I think they then can't gate across continents for a bit.

True, but that only accounts after the first gate. Typically people don't travel between continents over and over with ease.

-Conjie tess timer isn't that long. Granted it HAS a timer, but it is fairly short these days. Talking a handful of hours or less.

It's not a LONG time, but neither did I say gate needed some long ass timer.

-Also, you do still have the option of going underwater, or somewhere hostile to them (e.g. Hamsah gateguards if they are wanted).

If I have to hide underwater or at the enforcer, time to log off? Why play when I can't play? It's not the point of the healer being able to kill you, it's the point of the healer being able to be annoying/grief/scout nonstop unlike ANY other class while the healer is a healer, not a scout.

-I used to gate to people with an ap of mine on occasion, and it isn't always a good idea.

You had an AP with gate?

-Gating is not risk free.

Never said it was 100% risk free. 100% risk free would be to not log in. I said it's the most useful of ALL scouting abilities with the LEAST amount of shortcomings on class that ISN'T supposed to be a scout. The Imms made some small changes to healers a while back because they didn't like them all being Warrior like. However, gate as it is is much more powerful than any other PVP scouting/travel to enemy ability. As I said, make it act as it is for those who trust. No changes for trusting. You can ALWAYS gate to people who trust you. The changes I refer to are simply to make it CLOSER to being in line with other abilities and the spirit of the class. Sleep was changed, knockout was changed, summons been changed, all for similar reasons over the years. I think gate is one of the last abilities of this type that still has free reign. Every disadvantage you put to gate is THE SAME for ANY other abilities as it is simply the act of being near an enemy. Every other ability has that same obvious detractor, but many more.

Usually I can't be bothered, because the time investment required is too great for my patience these days.

And the disadvantage of gate is NOT the same as that of just being near an enemy, because gate does not let you see the situation you are about to go into until you are in it. Making a physical approach does. e.g. A wanted healer who walks is not going to find himself in the midst of Hamsah's gateguards by surprise.

Going to the enforcer doesn't mean you have to stay at the enforcer all the time.

Once a healer has gated into a couple of traps you've set, he'll stop gating to you frequently, even when you are not by the enforcer.

But they just seem so cheap. Is it right to use cheap tactics to stop someone else from being cheap? I dunno...

The Imms made some small changes to healers a while back because they didn't like them all being Warrior like.

This wasn't the motivation for the most recent class revamp I spearheaded, if that's what you're referring to. I don't even think Gate came up for discussion other than the consensus that it didn't need work. Announcement was here:

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=3&topic_id=920&mesg_id=920&page=6

I don't think that Gate is broken in its current form, and I don't see what adding a 5-10 tick timer would change if it was.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Maybe when certain healer will satisfy himself with killing noobs and will use gate to its max scouting power and call ganks there you'll change your opinion. Maybe not. We'll see I guess.

Also, the change I refer to was probably closer to somewhere north of 8+ years ago.

>I don't think that Gate is broken in its current form,
>and I don't see what adding a 5-10 tick timer would change if
>it was.

It would give an assassin (the class newbies are condemned to play) the time 'cool down' and be able to hide again. And as the healer usually reveal other hidden classes, I might give them the time to be able to hide again before being gated again.

Because, for now, all I can do when she's logging in is logging off.

A. If she is wanted, introduce her to the Enforcer, Hamsah guards, or Darsylon. Do not stand and fight, but flee and return. I once had a dark elf healer hounding me, until I used the animosity of Darsylon toward dark elves to give her pause.

B. If you need to rest off a pk, go to an area that cannot be gated to.

C. If you are feeling aggressive, invite her to follow you into an area that cannot be recalled from. I did that when Isildur's thief was making my assassin's life miserable (see the Pophris log on QHCF for a fashionable gank). Ganking is always an option when people aggressively gate to you.

D. Healers have innate access to healing and damage reduction, and solo they win or lose to you through attrition. Stock up on healing pills, healing potions (quaffing can be done when full) and refresh potions.

E. If he attacks you when you don't want to fight, then vanish instead of fighting, and try do so before he gets off insects. Gating will cost him more mana than vanish costs you, and any preps/supps he has on him will begin to expire. This is a great thing to do in a protected city. At some point you may need to quaff, but try to burn his mana first. If he gets the bugs on you, then try go back to A, B, or C.

F. What makes this particular healer a threat is not gate, but gate in conjunction with Insects and Beastcall. If you have to be visible, be on or near civilized to hinder the first and prevent the second. If you have beastcall on you already, blind it and flee or run for water--creatures of the forest do not cross water. If you are feeling devious, camp on Scion-tainted land and watch the healer not use his cabal powers, or funnier still, watch him call them upon himself.

G. Gearing for high saves (shoot for -90 or better) should help prevent Gate, Insects, and Beastcall.

or I think you would feel that gate has nothing on flyto with an air major who can essentially stay flying non stop for ten to twenty minute streches scouting for prey.

flyto will find you almost as effectively, can let them pick better times to attack you, and by and large shifters can be deadlier than healers.

I already killed one that was regenerative and turned into a offense form when he was messing with me like that.

They can't gate far if their blood is up, for instance. Furthermore, when the healer is using gate to heal you while you're trying to run from someone, you are gonna want them to be able to gate fast.

I have no idea what you mean with the first part, and the second part I already mentioned.

tstjastn

Wow...

asdf

.

That is to say, get the healer to gate to you, and have an assassin standing next to you attempt an assassination even with no stalks.

After the third or fourth time it happens, depending on how well-geared the healer in question is, he won't attempt it again if he's smart.

Which prevents them to be instakilled. Sure, it costs 100-200 mana and lasts two ticks or so, but they have it.

I'm saying the sup isn't foolproof.

And is it really a bad thing that you just cost him 250 mana (the cost of that supp) before gating (which is also prohibitively expensive to do repeatedly during combat, especially without black channel)?

Bard Repertoire Clarifications:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=23735&mesg_id=23735&page=

You think an assassin attempting it with no stalks is going to put someone off fighting?

I'm failing to see how a hero healer abusing triggers can cause so much fuss. Do you have a log or something?

I'm remembering Restraal vs. Heas and thinking that at some point Heas made Restraal not want to gate to him anymore. Healers are just healers after all.

This isn't an attempt to character assassinate anyone, so I am not interested in getting into details about any specific character or event. This is about the ability 'Gate' and how it can just be spammed nonstop without any of the repercussians other classes have with similiar abilities.

I would say that an example of why you think gate, after being around a decade and a half, is suddenly in need of retooling.

I will grant you that I am not actively playing, but this just seems a little silly to me. Which is why I'm asking for you to show me what you're talking about. I guess you don't have to though. Whatever?

Being able to consistantly gate to people nonstop is quite close to griefing. It comes to the point where, you can't kill the healer, any they most likely cannot kill you, but they can annoy you forever so you don't ever get to play the game. Unless you want to spend your entire time in the Underdark or Underwater, I suppose. The game is small enough now that setting a trap with said assassin isn't exactly something you can do with ease, unless you have OOC connections.

Is it overpowered? Perhaps not. But it IS overannoying and I don't feel like being griefed all day when I want to play. Staying away from a battlerager, lich, powerful AP, conjurer, etc is quite easy. Whereas, as I stated, from a healer you have to hide under a rock to keep away from their annoyingness. It's the pure annoyingness that bothers me and the fact they can do it with NO risk to themselves. Conjurer can die if not careful and can only use it every once in a while. AP/Necro has to be in same area. Healer gate has really no repercussions and allows them to grief people as it currently is. It's just purely annoying beyond belief and causes one to just not want to log on while annoying healers are online. I've never felt that way about other classes, ever.

But you have to remember that the real purpose of gate is to get to a friend in need, not an enemy. You don't want to nerf the already somewhat boring life of a healer with a handicap to his ability to help.

I also still maintain that an overly predictable gateto healer is pretty easy to discourage. I'll leave that to the real experts though.

Which is why I mentioned something like sleep protection. Basically it would only trigger when he tries to gate to someone not trusting. IE not group, not cabal, not expecting it. That would be my change if I had a choice. Like sleep protection. Wouldn't exactly nerf it any huge amount, but would keep them from spamming it on people all the time.

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?18,776868,776868#msg-776868

If I was playing a warrior. I'm not interested in rolling up a warrior everytime one of my characters has a problem with a healer and hoping that the healer won't have pass door on.

if you don't want the healer randomly droping in on you then you do something to make them think twice about randomly dropping in on you. This has been repeated a lot.

So stop trying to change the skill and try to change the habbits of the person annoying you, even if they change the skill the player will still be persistant.

Generally there are a few tricks, some classes have to be smarter than others. Some even will be forced to have a nice gank set up.

But you can make that healer really think about gating to you first.

No. There are some newbies though who are ready to die to anyone.