Just by some trail and error and observation I have noticed some deficits in this class in the 30-40 levels. It may be attributed to the strengths of the forms at this level or something that I am missing.

But take a warrior that is fighting a zombie in the mausoleum at level 30-40 they make quite short work of it. As a shapeshifter that is not the case. Even as an offense/defense shifter this is still not the case. That is with using the relevant skills of my class with the exception of having barrier and aura at hand.

Now first I thought its just warriors whom will manage this with relative ease, fighting one and killing it. But conjurers manage the same. (more easily with angels, harder with demons)

Transmuters whom are at a great disadvantage agaist undead should struggle, but even here I found them to do better, and yes Ive experimented with it.

I have not attempted an invoker, but I suspect they would make short work of a single undead.

But to my point, perhaps it is worth looking into having the 2nd tier forms develop a bit with level so there is not this big gap in strength between that and their 1st tier form. When a shapeshifter recieves his 2nd tier form it is reasonably powerful, but by no means a "deal breaker". Its not something people are concerned about. It would be interesting to know what forms can handle the single undead at the entrance at the mausoleum. And do a test across classes with the equivalent in gear. This would give atleast some indication about balance at midlevels. Albeit in one situation. This can ofcourse be expanded to magic using mobs, special skill using mobs and so on.

Just food for thought to make the game as balanced as possible.
LH(old returning player)

>
>But take a warrior that is fighting a zombie in the mausoleum
>at level 30-40 they make quite short work of it. As a
>shapeshifter that is not the case. Even as an offense/defense
>shifter this is still not the case. That is with using the
>relevant skills of my class with the exception of having
>barrier and aura at hand.

It's not a great example, because:

1) The warrior in that case can stack vulns to up their damage significantly and

2) A warrior is going to often be a much better tank than a wandless offense shifter, which matters more against enemies with more HP (i.e., mobs vs. PCs)

True its not the best example. But you make a great point with the ability of other classes to exploit weaknesses of mobs that shifters in general cannot.

A warrior will still fair far better than a shifter 30-40 against most mobs. (Exceptions are a few forms, perhaps 2). Alone a warrior will in general do far more damage than a shifter(offense) or avoide more than most defensive forms(exception is perhaps the hare, tortoise for absorbation).

But again a warrior does not have many of the advantages a shapeshifter has(like word of recall, possibility to teleport and so on. You can however take the other caster classes as a reasonable measure.

Im just trying to bring attention to a gap in the shapeshifter class which makes it very weak in most pk situations and 1 to 1 combat in the 30-40 levels. Sadly the numbers here are hard to assess as the PBF's would tell us (non administrators) little to nothing about it. Unless someone would delete in this period.

As a side note, I just want to say thanks. Ive been around since the early 90's. And seen this game develop off and on during breaks and returns. And I am continually impressed with the work the staff does.

LH

Which offense forms? FWIW I tend to find offense shifters harder to tank than warriors - they do less damage but the warrior is easier to parry/dodge/etc.

For example, many mid shifter forms fare better against assassins than warriors, because they can't have arms broken etc.

Some mid shifter forms get skills that find food and water. Warriors don't.

Shifters get built in flight so can't be tripped. Most warriors don't.

etc etc.

Quite why they should match up when it comes to killing mobs, I'm unsure.

because in the last few years most of the shifter forms have been totally rebalanced. Third forms are for the most part very good at what they do (to the poing that I use them often still even at hero).

the thing about shifters though is that they are more balanced to extremes unlike a warrior or conjie which can be more balanced. So a warrior takes out the skeletons easy because they are moderatly good at defending and moderatly good at dealing damage. in offense form you can match/exceed a warriors damage output but chances are your defenses are lacking. If you use a defense form you are likely much much better then a warrior at tanking but do diddly poo for damage.

Just a few months. Enough time to level up one transmuter and one shapeshifter. Im a sucker for shapeshifters but I do not see many successfull pk'ers without them being an air shifter. (especially mid-levels). I thought it would be an interesting thing to investigate. I still think you make a valid point about shapeshifters, but I do not see this happening at the 2nd tier forms. But true for 1st tier forms.

But I may be missing something.
LH

Defensive shifters do ok with the 2nd and 3rd tier forms. But offense forms cannot match a warrior, orc, or assssin. Plus, those classes have a lot more hp and some defensive abilities. Shapeshifter is a crap shoot on finding attainable wands or being able to hold onto generic ones for aura and shield. Not very easy with a lot of time involved.

I tried the whole mid level shapeshifter p-killing and it just wasn't working out for me. Yes you can pick off the weak people but doing something challenging just ain't gonna happen.