Which ever is higher?

I.E. let's say I had a Dwarf and I had trained his con up to 24.

After years of fighting I had an 18 con, but instead of healing at an 18 con I healed as a 24 (Since that's the highest I trained it.)

Or... I could wear gear that pushed it to 25 and heal at that rate.

thoughts?

This takes away some of the already limited malediction that comes from lowering your enemy's constitution. I think its a better tactical thing if you have to carry +con "resting gear" if you want to receive full con benefit after having lost your con.

That already weakened PC's are more likely to stick around now for that Flee/Rot match up because the pay off isn't a progressively worse match up every time you fail.

Voila!

Where is the fun stick?

That's about the worst legacy out there.

And I think this is an example of posting just to be contrary.

Or are you just being retarded as usual?

And I find it hilarious you say the game starts at hero yet complain about shapeshifters. Seriously, you're becoming more delusional by the day.

Thanks for policing the rest. It get's old.

I've said this before, but con should be changed to no longer decrease with death at all. Instead, there should be another stat, say, "Life" that starts equal to con (debateable), goes down at 1/3 point per death, can be trained back up, and when it runs out, you're dead (just like con now).

However, there are other things con affects besides hp gains and healing rate, such as saves. Now if we like people to be more vulnerable as a punishment for taking risks we could just switch those saves to being tied to the life stat, but personally I think conservative play should be discouraged, not encouraged.

Other benefits of switching death-toll away from con include making the races more distinct. Keeping dwarf con consistently 8 points higher than elf con means that instead of an elf just being a dwarf that took risks, there would be a consistent difference in terms of hp regen, saves, etc.

Doing it this way would also open the door to having advanced age affect con, which would be unthinkable now, but makes sense and preserves the "older characters are more vulnerable to diseases" dynamic.

They say the game doesn't begin at hero, but for me it does.

I race as far up as I can go as fast as I can go because losing con causes me to lose intrest FAST.

That's why I despise shapeshifters so much. To easy to rank with too little penalty.

>I race as far up as I can go as fast as I can go because
>losing con causes me to lose intrest FAST.

If you're worried about level gains, then...+con gear? It's trivial to gather like +10 con. If you're 10 down from max pre-hero, then yeah...don't die so much.

You can also dump your extra trains into con.

You're thinking is alien to me in a lot of ways. You're a good guy, but you're an alien.

Where's the fun stick in all that?

Why support hitting yourself in the head with a hammer? it may not be a big deal to you, but it is to me and others, and even if it wasn't big, it's still a deal.

Why is anything I said "not fun"? It's really, really easy to pick up some +con gear. It's really, really easy to just put it on when you're about to rank.

I agree that's sort of silly, and maybe merits some type of change. At the same time, I really don't think its a big deal.

Pretend the extent of your knowledge of +con gear is thus:

- Wide bronze belt: You can get it easily but you don't remember how much con it gives you.

- Pitch-black rings: You know the stats are different between the "good" ones and the "bad" ones, and you know at least one of them gives you +con. But you died twice the last time you were trying to get a good one and don't really consider them easy to get.

Ok, now with that in mind, for this person is it "really, really easy to pick up some +con gear"?

Unlike picking up +10 of con gear, losing 10 con before hero is really, really easy.


Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker

Various lists of con gear have been posted on Dio's. Any vet will have a mental list of con stuff; most will regurgitate it in-game if you just ask. There's also the Dio's item search. While its horribly outdated and potentially inaccurate, it still works as a starting point.

Using the Dio's search I just came up with the following:

neck: 2x silver amulet (+2 con)
waist: wide bronze belt (+2 con)
chest: padded vest (+2 con)
finger: 2x pitch-black ring (+2 con) (anti-good)
wrist: 2x thick iron bracer (+4 con)

Better options exist, but that's what Dio's item search gives you.

Cries of for a fix.

I personally hate having to remember to put on this piece or that, then take it off and swap it with this. OH! Here comes a shaman! i better put on all this #### so he doesn't rot me as easy!

####! He rotted me! i'm glad I have all this #### on so I can go sit for days somewhere.

I just hope noone finds me here...

Ah damn they found me with my Adlevari set.

Crap I lost another point of con... where can I find one more piece of con.. hrm...

Delete delete

PS: Let's add more difficulty if you're a goodie who can't kill sentients for gear and it's requested out.

I guess you and I have different ideas about CF.

I personally think it works the way it should.

You lose a ton of con before hero, you're not as hearty as the people who power-ranked. BUT, you probably have better skill percentages, more allies, more IMM xp and OBS xp for edges, etc, etc, etc.

CF isn't I want my cake and be able to eat gigantic ####loads of cake every damn day.

>BUT, you probably have better skill
>percentages,

No you just do the spam practice grind. Then you have both high skill percentages and good con. It's still stupid and boring as hell, but it's how you max out your character's potential.

>and OBS xp for edges,

No, obs exp is all about dutifully going through the keyword grind. PKing has absolutely no impact on it.

>CF isn't I want my cake and be able to eat gigantic ####loads
>of cake every damn day.

It seems like what you're talking about is making tradeoffs, and I completely agree that the decisions you make are part of the fun of CF. For example, one tradeoff you might make is to wear str instead of dam gear. Those kinds of gearing decisions are fun. Or you choose a spec that's more offensive and give up some utility, etc.

However, it's poor design (imo) if the tradeoff is "do boring stuff" in exchange for advantages. Games shouldn't be about suffering through annoying stuff to get to the good parts. That's the mainstream MMO philosophy and it sucks. Overcoming challenges is fun, slogging through repetitive boredom is not. A game isn't a job. If you want a second job, McDonald's is always hiring.

You can get like +6 con just from Galadon within 5 minutes. I think you're exaggerating. I would not compare +con gear with barrier wand whoring for instance.

It's not fun, and it's a handicap on races that already rely mostly on Con as their big perk.

Why should you have to carry cure blindness potions? Because if you could do it without a potion then blindness would be a worthless skill.

dfgbdb

And by they, I mean the IMMs having to code up #### just because you're a lazy ass.

>You can get like +6 con just from Galadon within 5 minutes.
>I think you're exaggerating. I would not compare +con gear
>with barrier wand whoring for instance.

I completely agree that searching for wands and spamming skills are way worse than having to get a small handful of con gear. Here I was (probably over)reacting to the more general thing he said about perspectives on CF.

Anyway, my other post basically pointed out that sure, it's pretty easy to grab 6 con gear, but I'm fundamentally too retarded to actually use it. But whatever, other people think swapping gear around is fine and should be a required skill and they find it fun. So I'm out of luck, and that's the end of the conversation.

I'd also make the argument that usually I'm either at max carry or at a level that I don't want to go beyond for dodging. In that case it becomes a real disadvantage to be stuck with some extra weight. But regardless, it's pointless trying to discuss it any further.

"OH! Here comes a shaman! i better put on all this #### so he doesn't rot me as easy!"

You only think that is bad because you're not playing the shaman. If you don't have to make tactical choices or prepare before combat then the game boils down to class match-ups, having an uber set and skill %'s.

If anything I'd increase the deadliness of various skills but then allow counters. So that you need to understand your enemy and prepare to fight them rather than just bash spam with das ubergear.

And people can tell when ####'s bad.

It's not needed.

Our Death system is a deterent to fun, not an encouragement.

You've officially lost your damn mind, if you ever had one to begin with.

After a rot death or three you just learn these things. Most of the stuff I carry I can get by rank 2, none limited, and all light enough to keep in a container without much concern. Only things that I need to be higher for are things like rose rings and the cloak of endurance.

Padded vest +2
Get a purple cloak + 2
Pair of mithril pendants in the graveyard are +2 each.
Buy a belt at bramblefield for lighter armor.
Right there I am +10 at maybe level 2. Not saying its not annoying to remember to put stuff on while ranking, but it's not that big a deal either. If you know you're going out solely to rank, just keep con maxed. The few points of dam roll and such you may lose are not so big a deal when fighting mobs.

By mid ranks I'll have gear that has + con that I'll wear for other reasons, so it's not so much ever a problem. Yes, if you want to spend 200 hours making it to hero, pk'ing all the while, you might need to put effort into maxing con when you do rank, but otherwise I've never had a problem.

And the gear is actually not useless. At hero, I always carry around a rot prevention kit. Especially if I know there are hero shamans, which there are at least two I know of currently.

Is it fun for you running around the world looking for this piece of +2 con gear or that because you were fulled?

It doesn't need to be a part of the game.

More fun, not less.

Yeah, but Dioxides is supposed to be off-limits, remember?

I suppose you could ask in game, and hope you're not an elf.

Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker

>Why is anything I said "not fun"? It's really, really easy
>to pick up some +con gear.

Maybe that's true, though I'd take away a lot of that emphasis. I'd take Really, really easy is typing a command. Really easy is going to get one piece of easy to get con gear. Easy is running all over the damned place, killing a really, really low level mob, resting outside for it to repop, killing it again, etc.

Also, it's entirely not fun to go spend half an hour gathering otherwise useless gear, whether it's really, really easy or not.

> It's really, really easy to just
>put it on when you're about to rank.

Maybe for you, but absolutely not for me. In fact, I find it really, really, difficult to remember this kind of trivia. I generally just wear leveling stuff all the time (ranking or not), because without fail if I try to put it on just when I'm out ranking (or god forbid only when I'm about to gain a level) I will forget 80% of the time. I can't tell you how many perfectly good characters I've handicapped by gaining 5 levels with <18 wis, or how many times I've gone to practice my 15 new skills and had submax int.

Swapping out gear for ranking is simply not an option. Not until I write some advanced scripting framework that notices when I gain exp and yells at me if I'm not wearing the right gear. Which yeah, I could do that but it seems pretty lame.

xcb x

I know for certain that hp gains are based on your modified or natural Con (whichever is higher). Think that is written in help stats2 or something. Well, it was before the lose of the help files. I asked on the boards a while back and it was confirmed by Zulgh.

Regen I would assume works the same way. But you guys are probably in a better position to decide.

Which is sort of the idea here, except that you would gain at the highest level you had...

A) Ever trained your Con.

B) Your Modified con if it was higher than that.

In other words, if I had trained my con to 24 and through attrition I now had 10 left, I would still gain and resist disease etc at 24.

How ever if I packed on + con gear and got it up to 25 (racial max for a dwarf) I would benifit from having a 25 con, not a 24 or a 10.

>>>In other words, if I had trained my con to 24 and through attrition I now had 10 left, I would still gain and resist disease etc at 24.

That part about resist disease... I'm personaly totaly against it.

Who suffers the most from low con? Those races that need it the most.

High int, high wis, high dex characters already get the "Wise healer" edge in most cases giving them a life time of higher con for regen than low dex low, low wis, hi con (That become low con) races.

The number one reason for me deleteting characters is losing intrest after they lose too much con because I had managing con loss with gear.

Why not make it less unfun?

Wise recovery edge don't give you resist to disease based on wis.

then combo's who's supposed strength is constitution.

I'm not asking for a solution to buffering lost con here, I'm asking for a change.

From "help stats2"

When you advance a level, your character is improved by the better of your natural stats or your adjusted ones. For example, if your CON is naturally at 13, but you have increased it to 25 through magical gear or spells, your character will improve as though your CON were naturally 25. Or if your WIS is naturally 20, but your adjusted WIS is 14, you improve using the 20.


Once again though, this has no bearing necessarily on hp regen or resisting diseases. I was just disputing the idea that losing con means losing hp. You just have to wear some equipment to cover the loss when you level.

I understand the current system. What you are describing is not what I am talking about.

I combined what you wrote and what someone else wrote. You didn't say anything about hp gains. My bad.

I do wanna race to hero when I know that if I lose too much con (a) my recovery sucks; and (b) I get worse hp gains. If they took it out then I'd take a much slower pace in leveling.

That's pretty much my thought too.

hp gains based on you maximum practiced con or maxed buffed con...

So I won't always feel the urge for spurt to hero anytime I loose 1 point of con. But I'd left health recovery as it is. There should be some price for dying. But that's me...

Think of all the bull #### dying entails in this game.

You can always take the Wise Recovery edge. That doesn't go off constitution, but usually long-lived characters will eventually see their constitution drop below their wisdom.

See my point?

I wasn't asking for a substitute that already makes most high dex characters that much greater.