When exploring an area someone has never been to, it is very possible to visit a mob that possesses a limited item and never know it. I would bet the tougher the area, the better the item, the more likely someone has already taken the item. You could bust your ass going through an area and miss out on some valuable game knowledge you should gain. This is something that probably affects newer players the most, but is also true for me. For example, if I were to ever take a trip to hell, I am sure there are some unique items that just aren't going to be there.

I suggest that over-limit items always be on the mob it belongs to. The item would be exactly like the normal item but would be flagged to rot in a few hours the moment it was touched by a player or charmie. It would appear to be (Flawed) when viewed with legendary awareness. The item would have all other normal flags such as (Legendary) or (Famous) so the player would know the item was special.

By being on the mob, players could observe any special properties of a progged item. Many mobs reference limited items in their description, and it doesn't quite look right when they don't posses them, so it would make these mobs look more consistent. In the few hours before it rotted, a player could identify the item, try to trigger a prog and even take a few whacks at some nearby mob or player. They could also use items like scrolls and wands, which may seem OP at first, but when you consider the time it takes to kill most mobs, barrier for 4-6 hours seems a fair reward.

>I suggest that over-limit items always be on the mob it
>belongs to. The item would be exactly like the normal item but
>would be flagged to rot in a few hours the moment it was
>touched by a player or charmie. It would appear to be (Flawed)
>when viewed with legendary awareness. The item would have all
>other normal flags such as (Legendary) or (Famous) so the
>player would know the item was special.

Actually I think the biggest boon of this is knowing exactly where something comes from. Providing you the ability to quickly use something, or identify it, goes beyond what I would want to see out of something like this. Also tying this into legendary awareness seems wrong to me. I'm more inclined to see something like (Illusionary) and it just disappears when the mob dies.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

There is no need to know its properties. There is no need to ever hold said object.

Simply the idea that
Tiamat is here
Tiamat is wearing
(illusionary) The armor of 900damroll
(illusionary) Some gloves of invoker shields haste and perm enlarge

That way, even if some gnome shifter is wearing it and only logs in once a week. You at least know where that item actually comes from.

From a total noobs perspective I really like this idea too.

(Illusionary) sounds magical, which might be a problem in the case of some items like...a Skull Sword, for example.

I understand your gut says an identify is too much for some items, but I'd like to know why. What is the problem with letting anyone id any item? I thought about it a little and decided the effort was worth some reward, but I don't know what you know about this game.

> Illusionary) sounds magical, which might be a problem in the
>case of some items like...a Skull Sword, for example.
>
>I understand your gut says an identify is too much for some
>items, but I'd like to know why. What is the problem with
>letting anyone id any item? I thought about it a little and
>decided the effort was worth some reward, but I don't know
>what you know about this game.

Just throwing ideas, how 'bout instead of (Illusionary), you just get some sort of echo that the (armor/weapon/scroll/item) is somehow broken, ruined, or destroyed as the mob dies?

On the plus side, it's actually semi-RP'd as to what's happening.
On the semi-pro, semi-con side, you'd never know if big-bad-mob ACTUALLY has the armor, or if you're about to spend the next 20min killing some badass mob for nothing. I actually kinda like that idea, but I'm known to be evil and masochistic.
On the downside, we'd probably have to explain to every new player why they can never manage to actually GET the cool item from the nasty mob they've just killed 20 times over.

> Illusionary) sounds magical, which might be a problem in the
>case of some items like...a Skull Sword, for example.

So bards shouldn't be allowed in Battle at all?

A powerful bard with a strong command of their voice may attempt to go
beyond mere suggestion and weave powerful illusions within the minds of
their audience.

>I understand your gut says an identify is too much for some
>items, but I'd like to know why. What is the problem with
>letting anyone id any item? I thought about it a little and
>decided the effort was worth some reward, but I don't know
>what you know about this game.

Learning everything possible about an item should be limited to when you can actually earn and use the item. I think it's cheap to toss a brand new area into the game, and then you know everything about it on your one time through. There isn't really much effort, and there is a lot of reward.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

I still like the idea of knowing that there is something there to make you want to go back to the area to check though, so maybe yeah, eliminate ID so they only know something exists there (and get them curious). An illusory flag gives them a reason to go back now and again to check for the real thing to ID it. Especially when you do have legendary awareness so you can tell just how rare that thing might be. Plus, if some mob has something that's always illusory, you might be inclined to think there is a reason players are always using it, so that does tell you a little.

And bards in battle is a whole different discussion that would probably go well beyond this. The term illusory for the flag is just a largely unimportant aspect of this, something could be thought of as an appropriate flag that would fit into CF.

Of course, since this would largely be a task for IMPS to work on probably not fair to really ask this of them given their workloads.

What if instead of that, you get an item flagged (replica) that identifies the same way, but can't actually be used. If you try to wear, wield, quaff, drink, eat, etc it would just say "The mask of anazu you are holding is a replica"

There would also be several aspects you wouldn't know:

Activations, etc. So the secretest parts would still remain unknown, though something like contact other planes would still work right.

Value. The gold value would be 0

Level. The level would be 0

Maybe that would appease those who would want some mystery to remain?

I don't like the 'you basically get the item for a few ticks' thing -- in a handful of cases, a few ticks is all you really care about (e.g., a certain magical deck of cards from an explore area) and I'm not that interested in having to figure them out and do something about them.

I'm not opposed to having a way to see what stuff is in an area that's maxed, but I'm also not personally interested in working on it. I don't think it's a bad idea, but there are too many things I would rather work on or need to work on over it that I'm sure I would never get that far down the list.

> (e.g., a certain magical deck of cards from an explore area)

Devil's advocate here. From what I've heard that deck screws people as often as it help them. And...I guess it is a Herculean labor to get. So, you struggle for X RL hours to get an item that you have just a few in-game hours to work with. This sounds balanced to me. I'd be more worried about someone putting the deck in their pocket(hording) and not playing with it.

I explore quite a bit cause I enjoy that aspect of CF, and I still have no idea where some of the more heavily sought things come from because quite simply, they are never there at their origin because everyone knows who has it, knows when they die/lost it, and get it as soon as they know it will be there. I did not even find out where the black hammer pendant actually was until recently. And I've been through that place hundreds of times. I knew it came from that area, but not where exactly, and where I thought it was in there was actually wrong. I've played for two years almost. I've seen it at its origin one time.

The deck is a single item, but anything that can be abused we all know someone will. In every situation it is difficult to come up with an idea that covers everything, so if it could be done it may need something to make it truly relevant and non-abusable. However, I still like this idea for a few reasons.

A. Mobs will have their gear to fight players with, which makes the mobs essentially fight as they were designed. In area explores this is especially true, as with aggro mobs. Say mob A normally has two limited swords, he's a sword spec beast that is difficult and challenging to fight because of it, and he normally blocks an entrance. Without them he becomes a joke to kill(or you hand spec every mob-which would make things insanely difficult). But then there are ranking mobs with limited gear, players leave limited things on the ground, and they repop bare making it easier to rank without the same risk. Make it tougher for us, the challenges of this game in non-PK is a lot of its appeal, especially in tough areas.

B. Continuity. Many mob descriptions are beautifully written. But saying he's holding a fiery blade and a certain pendant, but not actually using them? It just ruins a small bit of it for me, but I realize there are limitations on what can be done in game. I get it, it would be excessive to outfit every mob with full sets as their descs would imply, but usually things in the desc of real note are actual items/gear on the mob.

Zulgh's post I agree with, knowing where something comes from is probably the best reason for this, even if I can not ID the item. If I want to know rarity I can use legendary awareness, but I think that is too high a skill to make a prereq essentially. Although I guess it would only work for held items, nonheld/inventory items would essentially still remain a mystery if they disappeared instantly on mob death. So you could not find carried wands and such this way, which is really where it would be most useful for newer players, to find limited prep/wand/talisman locations.

Would the flawed items show up on locate object?

Would we expect to see people ripping people off who don't have legendary awareness by trading them sought-after flawed items?

Would you have lots of people without legendary awareness wasting lots of time killing mobs that they *think* have a "real" item, only to have it crumble a couple hours later?

It'd solve all of your problems.

But personally, I still don't really like this idea. I can't say why exactly. It just takes away some of the mystery of things. You'd just have to run through an area once and you'd know everything that could ever be there. I just.. don't like it.

>You'd just have to run through an area once and you'd
>know everything that could ever be there.

So you'd prefer to have one of:

Have people run through an area at least weekly 8-9 times to get a higher degree of certainty? Even then they'd still probably miss a lot.

or

Do some OOC gabbing about "Hey, experienced guy, I ran through maethien and found these items: ... what did I miss?" That seems completely blah to me.

or

You just don't ever get to know these things except by being lucky and playing for a decade or more.

or

Join an ooc info sharing ring. This is the most distasteful to me, but it's the most logical solution. It's not cheating, exactly, but it does go against the spirit of the game.

Any other options?

I hate knowing that the few times I make it into the Inferno or other area explores that I am undoubtedly missing out on some of the WOW factor because someone else has been there.