I don't profess to being the ideal person at all times and god knows I have a temper when my buttons get pushed and they did get pushed this time by a person I would not expect to be doing the pushing.

I don't want to walk away from a game I have enjoyed for the best part of 15 years. A game I have contributed to over this time and seen ideas implemented for the better of the game.

The handling by the Immortal was poor (at best) and resulted in forcing a wedge into the growing divide between players and Immortals, eroding trust and respect. The trust, respect and mutual interest is what has kept CF going for the last 15 years.

The Immortals closing ranks, removing the log, locking threads so that no discussion can be had in this forum of free speech just leaves a bad taste. I only posted the log to show the Immortal in the log that I was not full of #### and telling lies and in fact did deserve to be heard by them and not be treated like a citizen of a glorious Empire.

Some recognition of the Immortal screw up would save CF losing yet another veteran player and make you all seem like you do listen and don't just see an 'US - always right' and 'THEM - always wrong' when dealing with the players.

-----Abernyte

>The handling by the Immortal was poor (at best) and resulted
>in forcing a wedge into the growing divide between players and
>Immortals, eroding trust and respect. The trust, respect and
>mutual interest is what has kept CF going for the last 15
>years.

Probably that Immortal could have been nicer to you, but I don't fundamentally disagree with their judgement. They've flagged more roles than I have in the last week, and I know I've seen a good three or four obvious recycles.

In my case, I just didn't give those people XP, and probably they'll never get any XP for their role and may have to wonder why. At least in your case you knew why they were looking down on you and had a chance to try to do something about it.

Consistently, the players say that they would rather have feedback while a character's alive, and, while there are exceptions, consistently they react badly to that feedback, as you did.

I can't think that you're actually upset about losing 200 XP, so at the end of the day this must be about the fact that an Immortal thought you were doing something they didn't like and didn't believe you when you said you weren't. That's just the way it's going to be sometimes. Most of the people I've caught passing gear (not at all the same thing, but maybe reminding you of the kinds of things we deal with) have denied it too.

Occasionally (and I don't think that's what's happened here, but you may disagree) and despite our best efforts, we will as a staff make the wrong call. Maybe you've been in a hundred fights, 97 of which are solo and 3 of which are gangs, and 3 gangs happen to be the fights I see and base my opinion on you off of. That's just one of those things that comes with having a game where any kinds of standards are enforced or encouraged. Keep in mind that we're players also, and while playing mortals these things have happened to us, as well. It's rough when it happens to you, but if you play long enough, it will happen. The right response is to roll with it and turn it around.

>The Immortals closing ranks, removing the log, locking threads
>so that no discussion can be had in this forum of free speech
>just leaves a bad taste.

A few things here:

First, keep in mind that the staff is not a hive mind and does not always consult each other before making minor decisions. You had your altercation with one Immortal, a second one removed your log, a third one (me) came and argued some about it, and a fourth decided the thread probably should just get locked.

Second, this isn't really a forum of free speech. It's a forum for discussion of the game and for the benefit of the game. You're not guaranteed the right to complain here about something if we don't agree, to go very off-topic, or any number of things. You retain the right to free speech in that, certainly you can continue the discussion somewhere, but that isn't guaranteed to be here if we feel like it's dragged on to a point where it doesn't serve the game.

>I only posted the log to show the
>Immortal in the log that I was not full of #### and telling
>lies and in fact did deserve to be heard by them and not be
>treated like a citizen of a glorious Empire.

I don't think that log conclusively proves that, FWIW. It does prove that you had more role chapters ready to go and (playing devil's advocate) could add a sentence or two explaining a name change.

>Some recognition of the Immortal screw up would save CF losing
>yet another veteran player and make you all seem like you do
>listen and don't just see an 'US - always right' and 'THEM -
>always wrong' when dealing with the players.

CF's veteran players are, and always have been, something of a double-edged sword with regards to the benefit of the game.

Obviously, there's a lot of good they can do. They can help guide new players, create characters who rise to a high standard of RP and skill, and much more.

Unfortunately, the flip side is that they often have a hefty sense of entitlement.

Let me share a story with you: A week or two ago I watched as a player lost a PK and flipped out and went off on their killer OOC. (To be perfectly clear, this isn't Abernyte.) An Immortal pulled this player aside and said, essentially, "Hey, that's not cool." The player in question went off about how they were a veteran player, how they had made all these great characters, and how the game might lose him for our mistreatment. At no point was he able to even admit that he had done something wrong.

We like our veteran players, but at the same time, we can't allow that to keep us from intervening when rules have been broken or when we see something that we don't think is cool. We think that these things are important to maintaining the quality of the game, and many of those same veteran players also tend to get upset when they think another player is getting away with breaking the rules, using an inappropriate name, etc.

Its always the same players that get pissed off when the imms call someone on doing something stupid.

Edited to add:

I am reminded of an episode of Malcolm in the Middle where the youngest of the three brothers (Dewey) is being treated well and rewarded by the mother when the three of them are usually constantly grounded and in trouble.

When Malcolm asks Dewey what the hell is going on he replies,
"You know its simple really...if you stop doing bad things and trying to get on mom's bad side, you don't get in trouble anymore."

The same players are likely the ones who put quite a bit of thought and effort into roles, character creation and time spent being the character in the game. You put enough into something, you get pissed when it gets trashed.
I did not want the thread to give an opportunity for every ass-kisser and flamer to have a pop. I did not do anything stupid until the Imm had been a complete jerk off. I kept within the guidelines that stated you could reuse a role if the character was of no consequence. The Imm in question did not even recognize the role from pre-####ed-up-purge but based all conclusions on the fact that the role referenced a different name than the one the character actually had.

I am just asking that it be recognized by the Imm staff rather than ignored, like it never happened.

This is the issue based on the poor handling of it by the Imm and really has #### all to do with you.

-----Abernyte

There were two threads on the same topic close together...One post said "you can reuse it if no one knew you" and the others said "You really shouldnt recycle roles."

Seriously, if you dont want public feedback, send an email to the imps. Ask yourself if you have a personal issue with an imm that you want to resolve for the betterment of CF, or if you want public outrage against said imm. Which do you think is more mature?

I don't think I have even asked on the forum for the Imms real handle.

All I want is recognition of the 'poor handling' because it was piss poor.

Please re-read what I said.

And not asking for a handle just lets people assume its their own least favorite imm.

Seriously...I know you're pissed off, but its childish to get this bent out of shape over a borderline issue.

In writing, viewpoint is vital...the writer always knows more than the audience. One character might know things others do not. If only the author knows a vital fact....well you cant assume that the audience will pick up on that.

I know its hard to admit you exploded over nothing, or exploded over something you perceived to be an enormous slight, but why dont you be the mature one if you think the imms are all immature?