Why is Tribunal allowed to get away with abusing game mechanics?

I should start this off by stating that there are many advantages for Tribunal who defend against WANTED Outlanders. It has huge negative rammifications on the Outlander. Some Outlanders choose not to be WANTED all the time. Some do. Some just don't care.

Outlanders, without their cabal item, lose every single ability. It puts a huge premium on the necessity to retrieve. Whereas Tribunal never actually have to retrieve, since they keep their most basic and powerful abilities: guardcall, wanted, vigilance.

So why, when Outlanders retrieve, do they get WANTED for fleeing into the spire after killing the captain? This is an absurd abuse of game mechanics. You actually get an Outlander who has the balls to retrieve against two, three, or even four people, only to be rewarded with a hefty #### you WANTED flag.

Please move the intrusion aspect of the cabal to the Merchant in the spire, and the first step up into the spire.

It is only fair.



And yes. I have extensive experience as a Tribunal and an Outlander, and I would never WANTED someone for fleeing into the Tribunal. Because I know it is an abuse of game mechanics.

This is from an outlander who never has played a tribunal.

The powers they keep:
Vigilance: No one in outlander can hide. Everyone preps detect invis. And to my understanding it doesnt work outside of town. Not a big deal to me.
Warranting: Not a big deal to me. If we have the scales, we are probably wanted anyways, and as has been mentioned, outlander should spend most of their life as a criminal.
Guards: Stay out of town, and again, if we have the scales, we have the fetish, and at least some of us can subvert. So I say let them keep guardcall, since I have so few ways to unload damage in town
(subvert;sanc;frenzy is overpowered, if I ever managed to pull it off)

That said, the fleeing thing seems stupid and arbitrary, but again, in the case of outlander, you should be wanted anyways. I got wanted once for walking past where the captain was, to get stuff from my corpse, and got wanted as a ghost. That sucked, and I bitched, then I double checked the law, and was like, 'Oh, alright'. I mostly wanted the lawman to feel like an asshole anyways. Didn't care about the flag

ps half the reason I posted was so it would be clear I was no one else posting as an outlander here. I'll stop posting out of the battlefield now. Sorry bout that.

Here's an idea for consideration:

What if joining Outlander automatically made one "permanently" wanted.

It sort of makes sense, since Outlanders are devoted to destroying civilization. It stands to reason that guards would attack them, city merchants would refuse to do business with them, etc.

I haven't played either within Outlander, but is there such an animal?

Dunno. But one could certainly be added.

But there are outlander friendly places to learn spells and supps. e.g. Vale of Arendyl.

Writing while distracted is never good.

That you ask other outlanders some questions about how to deal with the problems you have, and come back to this thread when you have.

I've aged and con died Outlanders, I've gotten 100% ancient instincts, and I've had Outlander leaders, none of whom were deposed.

I am raising issues on behalf of low level characters because I am Quixotic, and I charge at windmills. It is what I do.

A brief, misplaced, censored log.

<lots of hp, mp, and mvs/wilderness 10 AM> area city
| All | Zesam - Arkham
| 10 - 51 | Various - Voralian City
| All | Amaranthe - The Outpost of Tir-Talath
| All | Scarabaeus - Hamsah Mu'tazz
| All | Galadriel - Galadon
| All | Pet/Aeon - Udgaard
| All | Vass/Rad - Seantryn Modan


I like evermoon hollow. no guards. They won't even let me in Hamsah anymore. Of course I'm an anachronism and can never remember the new name so I always call evermoon the 'wood elf settlement'.

nt

That was probably me. I flagged someone retrieving as a ghost.

That said, I would have brought the gear outside for him had he not come in.

The god damn healer notifies EVERYONE in the cabal of your intrusion should you enter. If she says ####, i word and warrant. Period.

Even when i've had allies defend, I tell them if they enter the spire they will be warranted.

It would be much more constructive to say
- don't retrieve while wanted if you know you can't handle it.
- power up to hero
- prep more
- play a build that can bypass or escape the guards more easily (bard/transmuter/air shifter/healer/druid)

Or simply don't go into town. You won't get wanted if you are never in town.

Being wanted is tough on a new player, and in a game that doesn't start at hero, being wanted at level 25 can make things quite challenging.

Imho, if you are new, you should only join outlander as either a communer, a bard, or a ranger.

Any of those classes can deal with being wanted pretty easily.

They can also deal with a lack of shops easily.

Taking another class and joining outlander as a newbie is really just asking for punishment.

I have an outlander addiction, and I have hated wanted flags for four years.

It isn't just that they complicate raiding or retrieving from the Spire, although that is an issue. For non-hero range, non-mage characters
- they make retrieving from the Empire difficult
- they alert your enemies to your presence
- they either hinder you or outright prevent you from entering Darsylon, Udgaard, Tir Talath, Arkham, Thar-Acacia, and of course all protected cities
- Hamsah Mutazz automated full loot. That's a bunch o crap
- you will obtain xperience penalties (admittedly not a bit deal unless you solo level)
- they severely restrict your training/practicing options
- they make you more susceptible to getting pk'd
- they allow out-of-range characters a chance to kill you (counter-raids, or Provost & Vindie anywhere they claim to be on duty)

Insects, Primordial Vengeance, Bioempathy, and all those terrible nasty overpowered things Tribpire complains all have timers and can only be done by a few characters.

Jump on the orderly gank-wagon. Play an air-offense shapeshifter or a duo-dimension opportunist. Go down into the underdark with your caverndweller and hope your enemies forget you are awake and come into your domain before your bedtime.


The gods hate you, and the Ancients are asleep. Life is unfair, until things are restored to as they should be, endure or die.

You've got cabal powers specifically to deal with being wanted and to help you survive being wanted. They're balanced on the premise that you'll spend a lot of your life wanted.

I mean, I'd really be able to whip people if I could play a potion-drinking Rager, too, but there's a reason you can't.

There's no need to defend the game design. It isn't about the powers: being wanted at hero isn't that big a deal, and habitually carrying a wanted flag discourages criminals from level sitting.

As I see it, carrying a wanted flag is balanced against having to be a bored on-duty guildsitter. Now THAT is a painful.

they allow out-of-range characters a chance to kill you (counter-raids, or Provost & Vindie anywhere they claim to be on duty)


If there is a Criminal in the land, the Vindie is always on duty and the Provost would likely (Though not neccisarily) be looking for you too, guards and all.

I know it doesn't sound like much, but with my last Outlander I had wanted to participate in some events but didn't because I knew I wouldn't get past the front door.

But mainly because the inn often puts cabal rp on the back burner. It's a largely ooc place, imho.

FWIW Iunna will usually transfer you in if you want to participate.

because as Seyriannia she denied me entrance to any event. Despite my desire to meet with heralds and attend events.

Because Sulye was a positive influence on the game, whilst your bard was negative?

I mean, if it were up to me, I'd not have let Loz into the inn, but I would have admitted Sulye, and whilst I did know who you both were, that would have been my approach even if I didn't.

I should point out that whilst I know who Sulye was (and vice versa), we still fought and Sulye still killed me.

Uhh...I wasn't talking about Sulye and he wasn't talking about Loz. Maybe the argument still stands...but I'm just saying.

Retrieving from the Empire isn't affected much by being wanted. You don't have to walk the length of Balator. Only reason I walked through Balator whilst wanted was because I was too lazy to walk around.

Most guard mobs don't necessarily attack when you are wanted. By the same token, they don't always alert people. For example, my last flagged character would often run through Hamsah's gateguards without being attacked, and also past Galadon's guards if I felt like using a different entrance to the unguarded ones. It is possible to do it without being attacked most of the time.

There are so many ways around Hamsah that there's no excuse for getting full looted there. If you see a summoner there, you should leave Hamsah immediately.

They don't stop you entering Udgaard. You -can- enter without going through the main gates if you want. Even if you want to enter the main gates, you normally can as long as you keep moving and scanning.

As a non-outlander, I think they only make you more susceptible to pk by making you run lower on preps. As an outlander, that's not so much an issue. Everything else can be solved by avoiding the roads, really, or only entering the roads on your terms.

Training and practice is barely affected at all. Are you using city guilds to train and practice?! You shouldn't be, as an outlander. There are other places.

Out of pk characters can indeed kill you, but then, out of pk outlanders can kill people too. And they don't have to be in town to do it.

Avoiding 2 the ones who can take mobs with them isn't the hardest thing to do. Also, it's worth mentioning that out of pk outlanders can subvert guards. I've had hero outlanders subvert my lowbie tribs guards before.

Honestly, you just don't get how nasty insects is. Or primordial vengeance.

The thing about outlanders is that it is hard to outrun them on foot, if you even have the moves to do so. So insects becomes deadly. Primordial vengeance has a very very long timer, and can easily kill a character who can't heal themselves. It was one of my favorite spells as a druid and as an animist ranger. In fact, I pk'd someone with just thornheart and primordial from full health before.

I really suggest you play a trib. Trust me, it's rough if you actively raid/retrieve a lot, as most classes.

In some ways, the ability of out of pk people to manacle you can be a blessing, since it effectively ensures a short term sequester that other people can't then replace with a long term one. And undispellable flight whilst retrieving is extremely nice.

You give a thoughtful post, sir.

>Retrieving from the Empire isn't affected much by being
>wanted. You don't have to walk the length of Balator. Only
>reason I walked through Balator whilst wanted was because I
>was too lazy to walk around.

Autoattacking centurions at the entrance to the Imperial lands, and escaping through Balator after having your potions lifted is tough. My magic-fearing Outlander had a bugger of a time, let me tell you. I don't think I will ever replicate that experiment in pain. Young, wanted villagers have it tough getting out of there if there is any resistance.

>Most guard mobs ...There are so many ways around Hamsah that there's
> no excuse for getting full looted there. If you see a summoner >there, you should leave Hamsah immediately.

I've never determined what figures into how quickly gate guards attack. Maybe connection speed is a factor, and mine isn't wonderful. However, it chafes me when someone I want to kill can hide behind guards, whether it's the the executioner, the hamsah gate guards, or those damned polearm spec guards anywhere.

>Training and practice is barely affected at all. Are you
>using city guilds to train and practice?! You shouldn't be,
>as an outlander. There are other places.

I was referring to being wanted, not merely a wanted outlander. And by your reasoning even Evermoon would be off limits. I wrinkle my nose suggesting to someone that, "Well, if you really want to spend your practices to advance our cause in the present, you will have to travel through time to do so."

And as far as circumventing guards, if you are relatively low level or have never played an Outlander before, being an Outlander won't help you bypass guards at all.

>
>Out of pk characters can indeed kill you, but then, out of pk
>outlanders can kill people too. And they don't have to be in
>town to do it.

I have never seen bioempathy kill anyone, nor have I seen an outlander unleash two pets on an out-of-pk character to kill him. That log on QHCF of a conjurer turning loose an angel and a demon in town was pretty cool, provided you weren't the lowbie caught up in it.

>Avoiding 2 the ones who can take mobs with them isn't the
>hardest thing to do. Also, it's worth mentioning that out of
>pk outlanders can subvert guards. I've had hero outlanders
>subvert my lowbie tribs guards before.

Hero air shapeshifters.

>Honestly, you just don't get how nasty insects is. Or
>primordial vengeance.

Yep. They can get you killed, to be sure. But they don't stay with you for the life of your character, and you won't get them as an out-of-pk character unless you cuddle up to the Spirit.

>In some ways, the ability of out of pk people to manacle you
>can be a blessing, since it effectively ensures a short term
>sequester that other people can't then replace with a long
>term one.

I didn't mention manacles, but I agree that lowbie manacles are not bad. A little gear and a bit of patience, and you can pretty much ignore them. Four lowbie Tribs defending with guards in a raid can get a little hairy, though, even if you are a hero. They don't even have to be all good-aligned to mess with you.

Again, I'll paraphrase what I said elsewhere: a wanted flag is far worse for some character builds and levels than others.

If you are a "serial" tribunal player, then join the group I'm in. probably 80% of my chars have been tribunals.

That said, I'm sure you also must know that it's generally against the law for tribunal players to warrant if outlanders flee into the spire after killing the captain. I can't really think of any provost that has said that warranting them is legal, and my memory goes back to calrooth time.

That said, try rping and tell on him to the provost. And if that goes against your outlanderish instincts and you would hate having to talk to the provost, then just suck it up. In all honesty, sending a letter or even just sending a tell to the provost will get him in trouble.

One last thing: It's not game mechanics at all. It's more like you took a risk to get your item, and one of the risks entailed meeting a corrupt tribunal who decided to warrant you. Play along with it, have it feed your hatred of cities, w.e. Don't complain.

There might be a handful of provosts that have said that it's legal or it's up to the magistrate, but a lot of tribunal provosts have said that warranting on a flee is illegal.

But, name a provost in the last year or two who has openly said: warranting when they flee into the spire is legal. And if Valkyneth says that, well screw me. I havent played CF for some time, so I have no idea what he thinks.

I think you're wrong about most tribunal people believing it is "wrong" to warrant someone for fleeing into the spire.

The current provost is the one who endorsed this action.



The thing about risk of retrieving is... getting wanted for retrieving lasts well after the retrieval. You carry that wanted flag around with you until you die.

A tribunal on the other hand, either doesn't raid at all because they don't need to, or they retrieve and then go on their merry way.

Point is, you shouldn't get wanted for a random game mechanic like flee. How many more reasons do I have to give as to why this is wrong?

You act like it's the bane. You're a goddamn outlander. You don't give a jack #### about laws or about being wanted.

I would agree to a point if the spire held, for example, the orb or the scepter or the codex, and members trying to retrieve got wanted if they fled, but you're an outlander.

And the current provost, well. It's in the end up to the interpretation of the magistrate, and if you can't live with that...I honestly don't know how you live in real life.

In the end, you ask how many more reasons do you have to give? Give me a good IC reason for why you, an outlander, should care about the warrant and should complain about being wanted by a magistrate.

Also, pretty sure Artenno, Adeg, Oethipius, and Nidblot (memory hazy on this one) all said that it's illegal. Are you really going to complain because of one provost? That's like saying ganks shouldnt be allowed if you see a 6 group gang that's been on the prowl for days.

You should see some of my other posts regarding being wanted.

It isn't just, hey, I'm wanted, whooptie. As a low-mid level Outlander, you have to avoid going to certain places. If you die, you lose experience that you'll just end up wasting time getting again. You don't seem to have a very open perspective. But rather, a very close mind about what is actually happening here. People are getting wanted for fleeing in the wrong direction.

I generally like to play my mid level Outlanders without getting wanted, because it makes me useful for retrieval, since I can't take the scales. I am able to contribute something to the war by retrieving, than being wanted all the time and not being able to do anything but wait until 4am when every tribunal logs off.

You play your way. I'll play mine. Just don't flag me for happening to flee in the wrong direction. It's already hard enough to retrieve against a defender with a pair of guards. I don't need to get wanted and have 8 hero level guards on me too.



I should probably also mention that I play Vaarsul. I don't want to tarnish any of the other Outlander images because of my argument.

I, the unwanted outlander, should be able to flee one pace, back into galadon, and know that I am safe from being chased.

Meanwhile, the tribunal who flees from the huntress can be chased.

That's fair, and it is unfair if, now and then, I end up wanted from fleeing into the spire and can't do that.

Sure, being wanted is annoying at times, but as an outlander, it's not the end of the world. You shouldn't be using the eastern road etc. anyway!

Most prior to them said that it was legal.

Those saying that it is illegal are probably the minority, overall.

I don't think we're talking about corrupt Tribs here. AFAIK the law states that its illegal to enter the spire past the room with the Captain. Period. There's no "except if you're retrieving the fetish, kill the Captain, then have to flee" special case.

For me, personally, (as Oeth) and for a lot of other people I served under or who I interviewed, the majority said that one shouldn't warrant.

I don't know how many tribunals you've really played (not an offense or anything), but for me and for several others, the interpretation goes like this:

Our main goal is to protect citizens and to uphold the law. Our goal isn't to warrant as many people as we legally can. This is where the unwritten law of "do not warant unless you are 100% sure / its better to let 100 criminals go than warrant one innocent" comes from.

Outlanders have a right to try to take back what is theirs. That is why we do not warrant them when they strike. If they are fighting a magistrate when teh captain falls, they do not dictate where they flee. Therefore, they have not purposely decided to flee into the spire. Warranting them would not serve our purpose of protecting citizens, as it was not their fault.

You seem to have this thing in your head that everyone plays some sort of righteous Tribunal character, and does everything in the "spirit" of the law. Errr. Wrong.

I don't know where you get the idea that the majority of people *don't* flag people for fleeing into the Tribunal.

Most people see a midbie Outlander retrieve without much resistance and they flee into the Tribunal. They want retribution, because they are selfish. So they start quoting the law and say crap like, fleeing past the courtyard is illegal. It says so right here. Hur hur hur.

It seems like such a blatant flaw in the system. It should just be changed.

The majority of the time, it has gone the other way. Maybe there was a series of tribs who didn't do it, but most did.

Also, the objective of a trib is not necessarily to protect citizens and uphold the law.

Please read lawful evil helpfile.

There's also plenty of reasons a non-evil would apply the law to the letter.

Any outlander with a brain that doesnt want to get wanted needs to calculate a game plan. Or if your out of ideas, you roll the dice.

The healer bitching about intrusion is bitching for no reason. She is alerting you of a crime.

You say they did not purposely decide to flee into the spire. Yes they did. They purposely chose to gamble the chance 50/50.

And it would serve a purpose protecting citizens. These are outlanders doing things, as you say, that they cannot control. And that is breaking the law. In fact, they dont give a #### about the law. And they broke it after retrieving their fetish. I mean, these guys came and whacked your guard. You have the fetish for a reason. Or did trib have the fetish for no god damn reason?

And not once did I consider it to be abusing game mechanics.

I've also played a few outlanders and been wanted for this. Not once did I feel it was unfair.

It's just part of life as an outlander.

You can't start comparing who has powers when etc, or I'd have to point out that most tribs lose all powers outside of the city, whereas outlanders still keep some of theirs in the city.

I can only hope this is even an oversight.

If you retrieve for the Tribunal, being attacked, and flee east(guessing after retrieval from OP), then marked wanted, game mechanics are being abused.

Don't use the bottom poster as justification. Saying warriors should retreat or casters should recall. Please don't nerf 'flee'.

I can't believe the OP was flagged for this, it makes me sick in the stomach if it played out the way it seems.

Obviously Tribunal players want to keep it how it is, so they can place some cheap flags on outlanders retrieving their item.

ntnt

I've gotten flagged for accidentally stepping into the cabal for only milliseconds.

Then that Trib erred.

So, someone "accidentally" goes into the spire, yet they should not be wanted?

But an Outlander "accidentally" flees into the spire, and they get wanted.

Get your story straight dude. You specifically said that "Going past the captain is clearly described as illegal."

See, that is what is wrong with Tribunal. People want the law to fit their purpose. Flagging someone who accidentally walks in is a bad judgment call. But let's flag this Outlander who can retrieve the fetish without resistance otherwise.

You can't have it both ways. It either is, or it isn't. You can't pick one way, and then act another later on for someone else.

>Get your story straight dude. You specifically said that
>"Going past the captain is clearly described as illegal."

It is illegal, and my story is straight.

It sounded like he was saying he got flagged for momentarily entering the room with the Captain. If that's true, then the flagger was in error because Tribunal law requires a warning be given and reasonable time allowed for the warned person to comply.

If in fact he was talking about getting flagged for going *past* the Captain, then I think the Trib did the correct thing.

On one hand, it sucks to get flagged that way as a retrieving Outlander.

On the other hand, I generally think that Outlanders should spend almost their entire life wanted. Yes, even at the low levels. You can't flag someone who's already wanted, so...

Is because of the difference in Tribunal vs Outlander without the cabal item. Tribunal gets three very powerful abilities without a cabal item: Vigilance, Wanted and Guards.

If you make that more fair, I'll buy into this cheap trick and/or Outlanders being wanted all the time.

Make Tribunal without their cabal lose more power that is on equal terms to Outlander, or give Outlander some power to put them on equal terms with Tribunal.

To me, that means Tribunal loses vigilance and guards. Wanted would still have uses without vigilance. Or alternately, give Outlanders chameleon and windwalk.

Otherwise, this fleeing into the cabal thing and getting wanted is bull, and it is a cheap game mechanics flaw. Outlanders don't have to be perma-wanted to be good Outlanders.

You might want to try playing Tribunal for a while. I'm just saying.

Isildur is right to say that having your cabal powers generally only work in one area in the whole game + your cabal is not a small restriction to work around. Their power situation is a lot less unequal than you seem to think.

Yeah. I'm a serial Tribunal player that DOESN'T flag people for fleeing into the spire after retrieving.

While it sucks to raid Outlander and have some non-wanted Outlander retrieve from you while resting on the high road, that is just part of being a Tribunal.

It is stupid to *take advantage* of a situation like this. And that is exactly what Tribunal players do. I would know. I've had at least a dozen of them. I saw people do it all the time. And I hated it.

Then your Tribunals must not have been too concerned with enforcing the law, since fleeing past the Captain room is clearly illegal.

I can see your point about it being unfair to outlanders, and I don't think your suggestion (extra non-flaggable room east of the Captain) is a particularly bad way to fix the problem.

I just don't think its as big of a deal as you do. For these reasons:

* If you know Tribunals are going to act this way then its within your power to work around it. Will it hamper your ability to retrieve? Sure. Them's the breaks. If you really want to retrieve then risk getting flagged. If you really don't want to risk getting flagged then do what you need to do to avoid that risk, recognizing that it may mean you take longer to get the fetish back.

2. Outlander powers and restrictions make being wanted "not as big of a deal" for them as for other characters. Obviously it does make retrieving the fetish vastly more difficult for mid-ranked characters. But, outside that, Outlanders criminals have it easy compared to non-outlander criminals.

3. I don't think the Trib powers are all that great compared to Outlander powers in most situations. Mainly because, as an Outlander, its easy for me to avoid situations where Tribs are strong. I just don't fight them in town. For a Trib to avoid situations where Outlanders are strong, he'd have to stay permanently on-duty or in the Spire. That doesn't really work, though, because Tribs have to rank. Tribs want to explore. Tribs have to gather preps, gold, etc. And as soon as they leave town they might as well be uncaballed.

but in these individual cases, the power is all on one side of the spectrum.

In the case of lowbie outlander retrieving from tribunal, all the power is on the tribunal side - they have a huge number of options to utterly destroy low level outlanders, unless that outlander not wanted.

In the case of lowbie tribunal retrieving from outlander, outlander has a slightly more limited (but still diverse) set of options to make that lowbie's life really painful.

And in this particular case, I can see why it would be eminently frustrating to get warranted, ganked down, and full looted by manacle squads just for accidentally stepping into the spire.

Since Tribunal has every incentive to pull #### like this, I would suggest changing it to make lowbie outlander's life easier, and in exchange giving lowbie tribunals more options against equivalent outlander abilities when they retrieve the scales. Maybe a tweak to make bioempathy less painful or something.

And who is really addressing the issue, instead of adding in a whole bunch of intangible details that don't have any meaning towards what is being questioned.

You are ignoring the points that weaken your argument, and can only see sense in those that strengthen it.

It's not that hard to avoid fleeing into the spire anyway. Normally a simple dirt kick can achieve it.

I don't get it. How would dirt kick help?

If you're fighting the Captain and a Tribguy is fighting you, then the captain dies, you have to get out of combat somehow. I guess if your class had quiet movement then you could dirt kick, flee, and quaff, and he wouldn't know whether you'd fled east or west. But not every class has quiet movement.

Your scenario isn't really a help, since if you flee east it's announced over CB. You might be due to play Tribunal once.

What I think he's getting at is that when the captain's almost dead, you could in theory dirt the Trib in range (assuming you have only one), flee, come back and finish the captain quick while he can't attack/assist, and then just walk west as it dies.

All I am suggesting is to change the law to say that intruding the inner guardian results in a wanted flag. And keep the other part about loitering in the spire too long. So fleeing east into the foyer and then leaving the spire definitely would not count as loitering. Going into the spire and trying to get a tribunal to come and attack you after you just retrieved is loitering. Bam. Wanted flag.

And I've played 2 or 3 outlanders since I last played a trib.

You can, if you wish, claim that it is tribs looking for advantage, but in many cases, it isn't. Personally I thought it was extraordinarily bad rp for outlanders to sit west of the spire and use the protection of the law to rest whilst retrieving.

>Why is Tribunal allowed to get away with abusing game
>mechanics?

Answer: they aren't. Going past the captain is clearly described as illegal. If you don't want to get wanted then cast/commune word, use a talisman or use the retreat command.

>Outlanders, without their cabal item, lose every single
>ability.

One big ability they don't lose: ancient instincts. Well, big for some classes.

>Whereas Tribunal never actually have to retrieve, since they
>keep their most basic and powerful abilities: guardcall,
>wanted, vigilance.

Except...for most Tribs those powers only work in the Spire and in their jurisdiction. Outside their turf they get...nada.

>Answer: they aren't. Going past the captain is clearly described as illegal. If you don't want to get wanted then cast/commune word, use a talisman or use the retreat command.

That's why I suggested changing it. Because it's a stupid rule. Change where "intrusion" begins. You ever tried bartering for a staff of return? Try it sometime. It takes an item worth 60K, and items worth 60K are not very common. And a lot of times using an option other than flee could mean death.


>One big ability they don't lose: ancient instincts. Well, big for some classes.

Whooptie-do-freaking-da. Yeah, you can get a couple cool things with ancient instincts. Have Tribunal lose everything except making people wanted. Then I'll buy that argument.


>Except...for most Tribs those powers only work in the Spire and in their jurisdiction. Outside their turf they get...nada.

Yeah, Tribunal is charged with protecting cities. That's the point of their powers only working in the cities. The majority of Outlander powers only work in wilderness. Your argument here sucks.



Fact of the matter is. Relying on Outlander's to flee into the spire to get some wanted/cabal action after a raid is a cheap use of game mechanics. Try to spin it any way you want. It's still gay. And it is borderline abusive.

>You ever tried
>bartering for a staff of return? Try it sometime. It takes an
>item worth 60K, and items worth 60K are not very common.

I had vandalize, so no.

>And a lot of times using an option other than flee could mean
>death.

True. So I would either:

1. Flee instead of retreating, and live with the flag, or
2. Flee before the Captain dies if there are Tribunals fighting me, then come back and kill him quick before they can get there.

Of those I'd probably go with #1.

>Whooptie-do-freaking-da. Yeah, you can get a couple cool
>things with ancient instincts. Have Tribunal lose everything
>except making people wanted. Then I'll buy that argument.

Uh. Ok. It's pretty nice. The reason Tribunal doesn't lose much when they lack their item is that they don't *have* much to begin with. I'm ignoring Vindicators here.

>Yeah, Tribunal is charged with protecting cities. That's the
>point of their powers only working in the cities. The majority
>of Outlander powers only work in wilderness. Your argument
>here sucks.

Windwalk works in non-wilderness. Vandalize works in non-wilderness. Unbound spirit works in non-wilderness. Ancient instincts (at least one aspect) works in non-wilderness. Ignite works in non-wilderness. Strengthen works in non-wilderness. Insects work in non-wilderness.

>Fact of the matter is. Relying on Outlander's to flee...

It's not a fact. Its your opinion.

I played Desabarun. I had to barter for staff of return. It's actually pretty easy (if a little tedious). First I got a valuable cursed item (easy for even mid levels), then I bartered to uncurse it, then I exchanged it for a staff of return.

Answer: they aren't. Going past the captain is clearly described as illegal. If you don't want to get wanted then cast/commune word, use a talisman or use the retreat command.


Wow, that's so damn unfair.

You are asking someone to rely on a spell percentage over the lag associated with failing any of your suggestions.

Seriously, fleeing east while engaged after retrieving at the Spire should not merit a warrant.

The only thing that should merit a warrant is hitting the Inner.

... Only going anom since you are.

Anyways, I'd say that it totally depends on the role of the char. The law CLEARLY states that you HAVE to warrant people who enter the spire no matter what.

I agree though that certainly is ####ty. Got a bunch of these warrants with my last outlander retrieving my armors from my corpse or as you, fleeing into the spire after retreiving.

That's why I suggested moving the loaction of where the healer calls out an intrusion.

n/t

Stop abusing the free pass on high road to retrieve your item.

Whether people get wanted or not is a choice. That is a game play decision that a Tribunal character has to accept. It may be exciting. It may be dull.

Fleeing into the spire after retrieving is a game mechanic that causes a person to get wanted with no options. That's retarded.

that is your fault

no text

His last character was an outlander bard.

Mage or communer? Self-cast recall from combat. Warrior? Retreat or drive. Ranger or Bard? Brandish. What else does Outlander have a lot of?

And if you're not being lagged you have a decent chance of just walking out of the room the moment the guardian goes down.

done

What's wrong with the idea of just changing where "intrusion" begins?

Are Tribunal really that desperate to make people wanted? That they have to flag people who flee into their cabal?

And like I told Isildur. Try bartering for a staff of return sometime.

People barter items worth 8000 copper at some merchants and get three lousy roots or vials that only cost 250 a piece.

You need an item worth roughly 60K to barter for a staff of return. Good luck doing that.

And furthermore, the options you stated are things you MUST do in order not to be caught up in this ridiculous game flaw that players are abusing the s##t out of.

ntnt

I am saying there is a problem with how the law is written and actual game mechanics. What is hard to understand about that?

Not to mention, Outlanders trying to level up lose experience when they die with a wanted flag. Or did you forget that? And you can't just say yeah, well, don't die. Generally, everyone dies at some point in PK. Losing experience because you got wanted due to some stupid game mechanic that randomly made you flee east instead of west is retarded, and inevitably, a waste of time.

Or is that reason still not good enough? Because to some people, it is.

I've played to age death in both cabals. And had multiple chars in them all.


How about you stop being a bitch and get in role rather than worry about what you feel is OOC abuse to you--the player.

>Or is that reason still not good enough? Because to some
>people, it is.

Those people probably should play a cabal where they'll be wanted less.

If I recall correctly, the item I used to barter was worth about 20-25 gold.

It was just an item that the shopkeeper happens to value, not some random item. It's even in an area with an outlander recall point!