I just read Dargin's pbf. In it Rayihn wrote she wasn't happy Dargin crossed the sixth. I am assuming she meant the sixth circle of hell.

Maybe I missed some discussion of this on his battlefield thread or elsewhere, and if so, please point me in the right direction, but if not, since when are members of the fortress allowed to go beyond the first circle? Why wasn't he drummed out the moment he did it?

Was he transported to the lower circles via some other means than the usual method of going from 1st to 2nd circle, thereby bypassing the problem for fortressites? Because if not, I'm very confused.

Would appreciate some clarification on this, please. Thanks.

I don't understand why you couldn't just write in Shokai's elite troops have found another path down in their eternal war with Hell. So goodies can use it, but maybe it is a high price like 1/3 of a con or something? I mean from what I know there really isn't much goodie gear down there anyway, so dont' see what the big deal is.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

"I don't understand why you couldn't just write in Shokai's elite troops have found another path down in their eternal war with Hell. So goodies can use it, but maybe it is a high price like 1/3 of a con or something? I mean from what I know there really isn't much goodie gear down there anyway, so dont' see what the big deal is."

because if you touch hell without scarabs permision he will turn around and ask the imm staff to remove everything he contributed to the game, which includes hell and more (he has done this in the past, this is why hell was closed all those years). The only way to get a goodie path in is to have him write it, and he isn't active enough to bother doing it. This is why that has not and likely never will change. Because while all the imms tip toe around it in fear of his whine fest scarab is in real life a huge baby about sharing, I said it scarab your a wuss. Imms feel free to edit that out if your scared of him running home with his ball again.

The solution to this problem, imms turn a blind eye to the forties doing the tansitions. but but but thats bad rp!!! well if it was any imm other then scarab involved in this we likely would have a goodie path written, the area was made when we were not as nit picky about these things. The only real solution is to just allow them to go through without penalty because honestly it makes a ####ton of sense that goodies would want to go try and kill the devils. I mean sure we stand to erradicate all evil, except the actual most evil things ever because well they have a bull in the way so lets let them continue to plot, fester, and otherwise corrupt things because we can't get the imms to make a suitable rp way for us to go through.

disclaimer I love you imms but seriously this is a case where game design is flawed in such a way that it impedes gameplay and cannot be easily solved mechanically so perhaps the best thing to do is to slacken off on the r-police just in this instance. If goodies are just going down randomly and often to #### around or gear hunt maybe slap them then but if they are trying to take down devils they should be rewarded not punished.

One thing to consider is that while goodies would legitimately want to kill the evil beasties, in the case of Hell, it's sort of silly. It's Hell. It's where a lot of evil, dead, essentially immortal begins live. Going into Hell to eradicate the evil and “cleanse” the place isn't really a plausible endeavor for Team Fortress, let's say. In CF, you can never kill enough bad guys or vanquish one big boss to banish evil from the lands. Similarly, while most of Hell is evil, and goodies don't like evil, there's also the prerogative that only bad guys wind up in Hell, so it sort of serves it's purpose. Since you can't really destroy Hell or “win” at it, you might as well just sit back and feel good about the fact that while there may be a bunch of devils and demons down there, they're gnawing on the flesh of evil bastards and nobody else (usually).

The way it was originally designed makes perfect sense to me. Almost every other “angle” is based more on a OOC desire to explore and get certain equipment (even for goodies) than a genuine necessity to slaughter herds of devils when there is PLENTY of good to be done and evil to be p0wned in the realm of the living.

EDIT: Fixed typos

You are completely generalizing based on your bias view. There are plenty of stories in literature and other angles in CF on why a goodie might want to travel into hell. Completely disagree with you.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

There are plenty of stories in literature, but that literature isn't CF.

Other literature doesn't apply to CF. In fact, in many ways, elements of Hell as they are described in Dante's Inferno itself don't apply to CF.

While there may be legitimate reasons why some good-aligned characters might want to enter Hell for reasons other than shinies and useful trinkets from Dis, I just don't see them being numerous or important (in a righteous goodie way) enough to warrant the time investment involved building a special path just for them.

Your take would make more sense to me if Hell really was more like Dante's Inferno, but my experience from what I've heard from Imms ( good imms) in-character is that it isn't really the same atmosphere.

The only thing my views are biased on is what I've experienced in-character on a handful of occasions. Personally, as a player, I'd love to tear it up with Team Fort without Da Bull packing my fudge (get it?).

I was under then impression that once you write and area it belongs to CF. He can make a stink but really he doesn't have alot of options. I believe last time it was closed was just the other Imms doing it to be nice, but he's pretty much abandoned the game, so let's move on as well. Also I'm not sure he's as childish as you are implying.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I think this work predates that

where someone would have serious problems with getting anally raped by a super-evil-unnatural giant demon-animal-thingy should not go past the second circle.

Though this should probably include people from battle, scion, empire, and outlander, only goodies and more particularly fort are really held to this standard. I recall Cormindon roleplaying having serious emo issues with it, even though he did it to save a friend. I thought that was cool.

nt

There will be no white flag above my door. - Dido

.

It can't possibly be worse than slaying a neutral mob and my guess is that few maran have 0 neutral mob kills.

Funstick people, funstick. It is a pretty cool area and I remember going there with a Dawn group the first time, it was truly awesome and I don't see why the interpretation has to hinder other to experience the same.



(but the idea that you only need one item per group instead if individual at certain parts would be nice yes)

I gotta say I agree.

You slip the bull some date-rape drug, so you're raping the bull even though it's boning you.

It's the worst of both worlds.

: P

Going to the 2nd would definitely be a no-no to someone who held Purity (or Chastity) important, but there are scenarios where I can see a Fort-dude going.

I can also see that the Fort Imm who determines who gets moved from Squire to Maran, having Purity as one of her spheres, might say "you went to the 2nd circle, so you get to wait longer than usual to get Maran'd".

So instead of 350 hours it' 400 hours?

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

That's interesting to hear. Because that's exactly the opposite of what I "knew" as all my fortressites of the last few years. It wasn't a "shouldn't" but rather a "can't" go. Like, not compatible with life in the fort sorta thing. So you're saying it's no longer a rule that you can't go beyond the first circle (or at least you can't go if you are using the usual method of going) if you want to be part of the fortress?

...when I was playing Meagara (Fort Marshall Shaman) several years ago, I remember giving crap to Forsk (Fort Captain Paladin) for going there so much.

I would tell him things like I thought he was beginning to enjoy the bull's "affection" and such.

He'd tell me to shut it.

That's good to know. Thanks for responding quickly and clearly. Appreciated.

I told people in Fort that they couldn't go.
But then, I was Sphere Purity.

Pretty sure Twist's Elf went anyways though. That bastard.

Point is, I think a lot of the guidelines depend on mortal leadership. Baer's definately -against- it personally, but there isn't a hard and fast rule passed down from Imms.

I know some Fort leaders have set that rule, but to the best of my knowledge, the Fort imms haven't.

It was definitely not a rule when I was a Fort imm.

I don't recall the issue ever coming up though, so if anyone did go when I was around, it was a minimal thing.

Aarn

From a purely IC perspective, Baer cannot comprehend how anyone who wanted to be a Maran would commit a sin like the ones required in Hell to advance through the Circles. I probably won't boot someone for going in, but I also will probably never Maran anyone who does either. I unfortunately was completely terrible about putting history in on Dargin (why the reinduction, etc) and for that I really apologize.

Hrm, let me ask you something. If the person going is already a maran, would you demote to squire or just think less of them going forward? (With some history comment on it of course.)

Hmm good question. I would actually probably talk to them and depending on their answers either toss or demote. If I felt they were an exemplary Maran before that I might just give them a hard time and history and warn rather than demote or toss.