It's extremely unlikely for even a gang to kill someone like Ahtieli or Satebos right now. The same goes for some of the uber-powerful APs.

How about making the anti-gank code work less efficiently for these players? Make it based on PK ratio, number of PK wins, or number of hours lived since last PK death... or whatever ya'll think is appropriate.

I mean, it's not really THAT drastic. But it would make these unkillable characters at least vulnerable to a serious gank. And all it does is revert these characters to the way things were a few years ago before the anti-gank code was in effect.

So it gives the underdog a chance, via gang (which is an improvement). It adds some small amount of danger to the powerhouse (which I consider a benefit to them). Win-win? I think so.

try actualy hunt them?

You have no idea how many times I was loosing link in area with 2-3 people in my pk and how hard I laughted when I reconnected in 10+ minutes to see they just ####ing run. Humbert, hello?!

And some of us just aren't that cheap dude. If it's going to be done, it's going to be done right.

Unprepped lich in link dead dies in like 4 rounds.

p.s. I don't think you should speak about being not a cheap one

>> p.s. I don't think you should speak about being not a cheap one

I have no idea what you're on about dude. And likely, niether do you.

Should be fun seeing your gank-o-meter though.

gank-o-meter is pure #### which won't tell you anything at all about Ahtieli

>>>I have no idea what you're on about dude. And likely, niether do you.

I mean you acted like a cheap bastard with some of your chars in past.

Or maybe you consider baseless accusations a going thing in russia.

For example, I hear Ahtieli sucks poodles compared to every other lich in existance.

post just proved my words. Thanks.

nt

After I deleted "overpowered Victoria" (who was quite killable if people weren't usually running the other way when they lacked their gang), I rolled up Desabarun (outlander elf bard).

I, and a bash spec warrior ran into "overpowered Ravon" and almost killed him. His cloak fluffed when he was convulsing, he was distorted, and he had a fiend on him. That means he is basically permalagged by his cloak until either he or the fiend are dead, because it keeps fluffing. (This is why Victoria stopped wearing hers.)

Had that not been a weak fiend, he'd have died. And he wasn't particularly good at resisting my songs.

Of course someone is going to be hard to kill if you only ever fight them when you have a gang and they choose to fight you anyway. In those circumstances, they have maxed their power, health etc and decided that they'll beat you down. You need to be prepared to die to take these guys out.

Liches... well, we'll see. Ahtieli is pretty skilled, so I think it will be hard to kill him. There was, however, one chance to kill him that I remember, when he was surprised by the tactics used. He did almost die then. (That was at the Empire inners, which sounds like a good place to be but is actually a pretty bad place for a lich against certain enemies.)

I think there's an outside chance I could do something with a chaotic neutral conjie (or a chaotic good one if I was willing to do something that would be bad rp).

The thing that gets me about liches is that they're "generally" immune to both stealth and knockout.

* not going to be assassinated,
* not going to be jacked,
* even if they were jacked, they have nigh-permafly anyway,
* also have nigh-perma-bash-resist,
* also can't be perma'd with neurological disruption,
* also can't be slept by necros/aps,
* also can't be bard slept,
* with army they have enough offense that a lot of characters would lose even if the lich just stood there and didn't enter any commands,
* frequently also have gear of the sort you mentioned on ravon,
* are almost always decked out with tons of a/b/s wands.

All this adds up to "really unlikely to be killed". Especially as a Satebos who's not encumbered by any obligation to participate in cabal wars.

>* not going to be assassinated,

Liches can be assassinated. Except one who has mask.

>* even if they were jacked, they have nigh-permafly anyway,

wrong

>* also have nigh-perma-bash-resist,

wrong

>* with army they have enough offense that a lot of characters
>would lose even if the lich just stood there and didn't enter
>any commands,

also wrong

>* frequently also have gear of the sort you mentioned on
>ravon

Currient liches don't have it. + I don't use them for reason.

>All this adds up to "really unlikely to be killed".
>Especially as a Satebos who's not encumbered by any obligation
>to participate in cabal wars.

Yep, Satebos "can not" be killed.

>>* not going to be assassinated,
>
>Liches can be assassinated. Except one who has mask.

Read carefully. I said "not going to be". While you were without the mask, prior to your demotion you had piercing gaze plus whatever phylacteries you might choose to use.

>>* even if they were jacked, they have nigh-permafly anyway,
>
>wrong

Does wraithform not grant flight? What's the duration on wraithform for a lich? Note also that I said nigh permafly. Nigh = near.

>>* also have nigh-perma-bash-resist,
>
>wrong

Same question as above. Does wraithform not grant bash resist? What's the duration on wraithform for a lich?


>>* with army they have enough offense that a lot of
>characters
>>would lose even if the lich just stood there and didn't
>enter
>>any commands,
>
>also wrong

Depends on how one defines "a lot", wouldn't you say, and what protections the lich has?

>Read carefully. I said "not going to be". While you were without the >mask, prior to your demotion you had piercing gaze plus whatever >phylacteries you might choose to use.

it's not matter if you are lich or no. It's not too hard to avoid assassinate with any char, except rager.

>Does wraithform not grant flight? What's the duration on wraithform >for a lich? Note also that I said nigh permafly. Nigh = near.

given duration I don't think it's nigh perma thing. Though I'm sure not going to tell you duration

>>Read carefully. I said "not going to be". While you were
>without the >mask, prior to your demotion you had piercing
>gaze plus whatever >phylacteries you might choose to use.
>
>it's not matter if you are lich or no.

Look, I don't want to pick a forum fight with you, but if you honestly think being able to, at least sometimes, have real detect hidden up as a class ability makes no difference (your words: does not matter) in how possible it is or isn't to assassinate someone, you're too far into the Kool-Aid to really be able to argue the balance/tactics anymore.

I'm just saying I've (almost)never been assassinated with any of my past chars without knowing that it was coming and I was just testing my luck. Even then I was rarely assassinated. Of course having detect hidden from time to time helps a lot.

what does kool-aid mean?

>what does kool-aid mean?

It's a drink you buy in powder form and then mix with water to make:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool_aid

But this explains the idiom in question better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

>>* not going to be assassinated,
>
>Liches can be assassinated. Except one who has mask.

That's 'not going to be' and not 'can't be'.

A lich Emperor (yes, Ahtieli is not this now) is not going to be assassinated. While possible, for it to happen requires basically a good enough player to become Emperor to suddenly play so stupid I would probably take it as proof of a traded character.

You can assassinate someone with the mask in question, although it's not likely to happen.

>>* even if they were jacked, they have nigh-permafly anyway,
>
>wrong

Sort of moot because you can't KO a lich.

I think you can reasonably have a chance to trip to death a lich that doesn't have the detect hidden item and doesn't have piercing gaze. One that has either, no.

It's possible to catch one without phylactery wraithform, dispel it, and have a bunch of people spamming trip, but neither current lich is likely to get into a situation where that's possible.

>>* also have nigh-perma-bash-resist,
>
>wrong

Kind of the same comment as tripping here. Possible, but requires you to take on a kind of unfavorable situation without sufficient prep that you're not likely to do.

>>* with army they have enough offense that a lot of
>characters
>>would lose even if the lich just stood there and didn't
>enter
>>any commands,
>
>also wrong

You and I disagree on this, except I'm right.

I've seen plenty of hero characters (with positive PK ratios, if we're going to filter out newbieness as an excuse) that literally couldn't stand up to one round of a beating from Ahtieli's full army. I know this because I've repeatedly seen it happen, e.g. zombies autoassist and guy wimpies at 50% hp from full after two zombies have attacked.

>Yep, Satebos "can not" be killed.

I'd probably say 'will not', but we're splitting hairs there.

Nep, stop ruining my "weak" lich misinfo, I need people to fight me...

Ravon was "overpowered" relative to the majority of the playerbase. But I don't think anyone said he (or Victoria) was "unkillable."

A decent Emperor lich is "unkillable" in the sense that this one, Ahtieli, did not die once in the last several months, and assuming he remained Emperor, would not have been likely to die more than once over the next several months/years.

The thing to do would have been for you and Yhorian to get together and start multi-killing Ahtieli to show the rest of us how little we know. But you're both in good company because like the rest of the playerbase, you didn't do that. The only difference between us is that you still think you could multi-kill a decent Emperor lich "if you really tried." So prove it.

a) I wouldn't choose to "multi-kill" said lich anyway.
b) I know how close lich came to being killed at certain points because lich told me. I also know he avoids certain situations because he almost died without realising the danger he was in first time around. He -would- in fact have died had something not happened that was luck (and I'm not talking about evade firing or anything like that; I'm talking about a change to the environment in which the fight was taking place).

Also, people did in fact say that Victoria was unkillable, so I suspect they also said it about Ravon.

I remember being glad that all the whiners who failed to kill me in their massive ganks were proven wrong by Yhorian solo killing me.

Perhaps you need to re-read my post about Ahtieli.

You'll see that I said (with caps to emphasize this time around)

I THINK that I would HAVE AN OUTSIDE CHANCE of killing Ahtieli with A --- specific kind of conjurer ---.

What part of that tells you that I am saying I could multi-kill him?

Basically - "unlikely to die more than once for a year." So, yes, killing the Emperor Lich one time when all the stars align or he loses link doesn't suddenly remove the "unkillable" tag - I think you have to be capable of killing it more than once/year (i.e., "multi-killing").

I'm sure Ahtieli has stories about close calls. But (1) based on his forum posts I don't think Ahtieli has a reasonable assessment of what is involved in killing the Emperor Lich, and (2) close calls mean absolutely nothing in CF - other than to educate the person that had the close call never to get into that situation again.

The only thing that matters IMO is PKing the Emperor Lich. Flat out, that's it. I've PK'd liches before, including Istendil, so I'm not talking without any background experience. It's really, really hard. You give a lich emperor powers and a conservative bent, and that lich becomes "unkillable."

Anyone that disagrees, go ahead and prove you did it.

Close calls do mean something.

I don't consider just getting low on hp a close call. I consider needing a lucky break to avoid being permalagged to death a close call.

You just need to capitalize on surprise and any mistakes she might make, and get a little bit of luck.

Once in a year with a lot of luck you can kill a lich. But a few days later he is in full power again. And at this rate you're probably need twenty more years to con-kill it.

I "almost" killed Ahtieli once or twice. And Satebos a half dozen or so times. But solo, it's almost impossible to really kill them without some means of permalag.

So many times you think you can have someone, but one thing goes wrong (wimpy out of lag, miss a lagging move, they land a crucial skill at the worst time and YOU die) just saying, it's possible.

Satebos and Ahtieli just are good players who DON'T WANT TO DIE because Liches suck right after a death (especially because both will eat a full loot most likely).

I posted about it, too! You have to stalk my posts more aggressively.

What's it based off of? Because I can imagine some characters with tons of kills who are, nevertheless, a lot more "killable" than an Ahtieli or Satebos. For instance, Kjrorh. Or Kostyan. Or Alzinghul.