After reading Heretic's post about automating Scion inductions and ongoing pk competition for full membership, I do agree that changes should be made and internal competition should be encouraged. However I don't think his pure-pk proposal is a best fit for a cabal that has historically demanded quality roleplay to exist alongside pk competence.

The next few posts will outline my ideas, and I welcome people to chime in.

.

nt

This is where I would need the most help, having played no Scions under the current system. It would be great if each grade within a tier held new, cumulative powers, but that would be an enormous time sync. For coding reasons, it would probably be best if the existing powers be used, conforming to similar class restrictions, but limit access by grade within the tier and limiting power by both tier and grade.

I will leave it to you, the better informed, to fill in the grid with powers appropriate to the cabal and tiers.



Tier 1: Conjurers, Cabal-imm Healers
-Grade 1:
-Grade 2:

Tier 2: Invokers & Liches/Mummies, Cabal-imm Shaman
-Grade 1:
-Grade 2:
-Grade 3:

Tier 3: Necromancers, Transmuters, non-cabal-imm Shaman & Healers
-Grade 1:
-Grade 2:
-Grade 3:


Tier 4: Antipaladins
-Grade 1:
-Grade 2:
-Grade 3:

Tier 5: Shapeshifters & Melee classes
-Grade 1:
-Grade 2:
-Grade 3:
-Grade 4:
-Grade 5:

I think that Anti-Paladins should be higher up in your list because unlike invokers or necro classes they actually commune with spirits from other worlds. At least, that is how I read it from some of their skills and spells. Melee classes should be below shapeshifters and IMO shapeshifters should be on par with any other mage class aside from Conjurer or AP. Shapeshifters have powerful magics, much of which are similar to a transmuters in a sense.

but, I disagree about shapeshifters for a couple of reasons.

From an IC standpoint, although shapeshifters are particularly well-suited for the pk demands of this cabal, their magic has nothing to do with dimensional study. They are "merely" magic-using warriors, and although useful for taking out the trash and harassing the common folk, they do not deserve a high position in a cabal so focused on other dimensions.

From an OOC standpoint, I would like to see more mage diversity in CF in general and the Chasm specifically. Shapeshifters appear to be the most common mage in the game, and I would like to see something done to make the other magic-using classes attractive to the habitual mage players.

And last, in a cabal with limited membership and high role play expectations, I don't think it is rp-conducive to have a camouflaged zookeeper and six Scion shapeshifters in form. But that's just me.

As outlined in the Cabal Structure post, only characters who fall within appropriate tiers can oversee the cabal's leadership. Unlike Empire, ANYONE of a higher tier may promote or demote someone's grade within a lower* tier, using any criteria they wish. However, two people holding the same grade are denied access to their cabal powers until one or the other dies, at which time the victim is automatically demoted. Death need not be at the hands of the competitor, inviting all manner of skullduggery.

Characters cannot promote or demote characters who are not presently logged in, but grade changes for playing characters are compared to characters who are not presently logged on. This is to ensure that not everyone can hold an elevated grade within the cabal.


* Edited to add the word "lower"

This part raises a lot of questions for me. I understand the structure of the grading system you propose, but what's the logic, and how would this play out in-game? i.e, are they only denied powers when both characters are online at the same time? Why would two people occupying the same grade suddenly lose access to their powers? Sure, it promotes conflict, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus, one of the primary complaints people have about scions is that they are without their powers 90% of the time; so why create yet another way for them to lose them?

Also, Scions strike me as a very small, loosely organized cult. Yes, they came from Empire, yes they're elitists, but they're not Empire. A five-tiered, multiple-graded system of hierarchy doesn't make a lot of sense when there can only be like, 12 members total. A cult-like Inner Circle makes a lot of sense; maybe the Advisor and Chancellor are in it, and they can initiate up to 2 or 3 more members.

Splntrd

>This part raises a lot of questions for me. I understand the
>structure of the grading system you propose, but what's the
>logic, and how would this play out in-game?

The lowest grade of a given tier has no more power than an applicant. To gain powers, he has to cozy up to someone of a higher tier who will award him a higher grade--forcing ongoing interaction, instead of hoping to get an induction interview and then never interacting with anyone other than PK again.

>denied powers when both characters are online at the same
>time?

No. You must have missed that.

>Why would two people occupying the same grade suddenly
>lose access to their powers?

Because the cabal wants the strong and active to hold power and the weak and ineffective to be culled out. Proving your usefulness is an ongoing process.

> Plus, one of the primary
>complaints people have about scions is that they are without
>their powers 90% of the time; so why create yet another way
>for them to lose them?

Not everyone is up to the challenge of being a Scion.

>Also, Scions strike me as a very small, loosely organized
>cult. Yes, they came from Empire, yes they're elitists, but
>they're not Empire. A five-tiered, multiple-graded system of
>hierarchy doesn't make a lot of sense when there can only be
>like, 12 members total. A cult-like Inner Circle makes a lot
>of sense; maybe the Advisor and Chancellor are in it, and they
>can initiate up to 2 or 3 more members.

Have as many or as few as you like. Only the favorites, the worthy, will actually receive any of the power. The rest are merely sycophants hoping to one day gain the approval of their betters.

Scions already pretty much fight the world, now they are going to start fight eachother aswell.. pretty much invoking total distrust among even members of the cabal. Which ends up in scions only having a few allies.. the uncaballed characters, some heralds and perhaps nexus when good is in power. If scion is about to die now, with this system it will REALLY die.. Unless the cabal powers is so absurdly sick that it lures people.

I'm not endorsing Quixotic's version of my suggestion, but I'll address your point.

So what if they fight eachother? They're evil, damnit. They should never 'trust' anyone. Maybe they decide a really strong ally is worth keeping around. Maybe they want to eliminate other scions out of envy. But this is the way it supposed to be. Let evil destroy itself. That is what it does. It's not a problem at all.

A lot of people are going to try to be a ruthless, cutthroat evil that dominates the lesser Scions but are going to find it much harder than they imagine.

As for this suggestion causing Scion to die, that's absurd, it would do the opposite. By not requiring a leader to induct you it would allow more people try for a spot. You wouldn't need to spend 100 hours tracking down and appeasing a leader. There would be no requirement that you play X number of hours per week to keep your slot. It would draw players, not repel them.

Preface:
Given the origins of this cabal within the Empire, I would expect a hierarchy more akin to Empire than of Outlander. However, I also understand the elitist mindset of the arcanes, and so those who melee are merely tools to be used and discarded on the quest to achieve the cabal's objectives.


Structure
-----------
For the reformed Scions of the Eternal Night, not all mages are created equal, and their associates across the planes reward them accordingly. From the greatest tier to the most inferior, they are as follows:

Tier 1: Conjurers, Cabal-imm Healers (can be advisor or chancellor)
Tier 2: Invokers & Liches/Mummies, Cabal-imm Shaman (can be advisor)
Tier 3: Necromancers, Transmuters, non-cabal-imm Shaman & Healers
Tier 4: Antipaladins
Tier 5: Shapeshifters & Melee classes

These tiers are based on the premise of what persons are best suited for individually bringing about the cabal's goals. Classes that have proven their ability to opening portals between dimensions rank highest, and those which are incapable of bridging worlds are at the bottom tier, little more than mercenaries to be used and disposed of.

Membership within each tier is graded, with corresponding differences in cabal power between grades (see proposal for Cabal Powers). Elevation of one's status within a tier will be discussed under the section called Cabal Politics.

Edit: I see Adhelard is also suggesting a tiered system. I typed this up before I saw your post.

Sorry, but to be honest I cannot disagree with the this idea more.

***(( from the CF website on Scions)) They are not an army, and care little for the traditional definitions of political power, preferring instead to traffic in the currencies of knowledge, prophecies, and lore.***

The changes that are being outlined above (( the whole tiered thing)) are essentially making them a mini-Empire Cabal. Now, while there was some nefarious things going on with the Scions and the Empire at one point, the Scions did not get created -from- the Empire. If I remember correctly it had something to do with the Scions getting some of the Mage Sect (or whatever it is) to betray the Empire; which is why they no longer accept those mages into the cabal and there is the animosity there.

As a result, why the hell would they model themselves after something that they tried to hurt? Or even something that ended up hurting them? They are not some disillusioned sect of the Empire hiding in the Chasm trying to figure out a way to take over the world. They are a cult trying to bring about eternal night on Thera.

News flash, everybody on this ####ing MUD wants to be Rambo. We should have called it RamboMUD. ~Daevryn~